Countries banning of kosher meats are forcing "expulsion" of Jews

[Subduction Zone]

You keep saying this, but how does it suffer? What kind of suffering?

I would say that it suffers pain. You can see videos of them kicking desperately as soon as their throats are cut. I posted one of halal butchery. I could probably find one of Kosher slaughter, though I may have to find an older one. More modern ones try to cover the reaction of the cow.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Is there any difference when the rubber meets the road? Looks like you are splitting hairs.

If one has to eat tortured animal meat to be a Jew I supposed you could claim that. I thought that the religion was quite a bit deeper than that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You ignore the supporting information and claim it isn't there. And yet, it is. You should reread the posts, this time, with your eyes open. Your mad flailing is a sure sign of weakness.

LOL! No flailing. Try again.

 

[David1967]

Look, let's say I was Lakota Sioux. But I left the rez, left the tribe behind. Told people publicly that I didn't give a rat's that I was Lakota. And then I went further than that. I made statements that degraded the religious significance of the Black Hills to the Sioux, such as "I hope they develop the h*** out of those hills. Drill for oil. I hope they carve the face of Custer on those stinking hills." That would be a self hating Lakota.

I see what you mean, but that's a bit more extreme than changing the way you kill livestock imo.

 

[charlie sc]

Sure, your a Jew. Sounds like you hate being a Jew. What can I say.

Huh, how am I a Jew? The only difference is me telling you about my background. Apart from that, there’s no empirical difference between a Jew vs a non-Jew. I hate being a Jew as much as you hate being a green blob from Men In Black. The only people who think I’m a Jew are deluded Jews. Though, if Jews want to think religion is somehow an ethnicity, I won’t stop them.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I'm not aware of any curses against Ishmaelites or Jews.

Genesis 16 where the Angel is talking to Hagar.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

To update it how????

This is not rocket surgery. There is nothing pivotal or monumentally dire (in a spiritual sense) about the method of slaughter. The meat is not changed one tangible bit. It should not be this big of a fuss to leave behind ancient practices in favor of more modern and ethical techniques. Especially when the "kosher" and "halal" forms of slaughter have been shown to be less ethical, cause more suffering - no matter how brief - and have been awash in controversy for decades.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I would say that it suffers pain. You can see videos of them kicking desperately as soon as their throats are cut. I posted one of halal butchery. I could probably find one of Kosher slaughter, though I may have to find an older one. More modern ones try to cover the reaction of the cow.

Do you know this to be the norm? One circumstance where the may be kicking is if the spinal cord is severed. That would make that slaughter UNKOSHER by rabbinic standards.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you know this to be the norm? One circumstance where the may be kicking is if the spinal cord is severed. That would make that slaughter UNKOSHER by rabbinic standards.

Are you serious? The spinal cord is nowhere near where the knife goes. It is very difficult to sever using a knife that cuts the front of the throat. It is very hard to do even from the rear. That would have to be a purposeful action.

 

[viole]

There is nothing barbaric in practicing a slaughtering technique that is just as painfree as the common forms used today. Getting knocked on the head is not pain free you know. Study sheching before you put it down. Unconsiousness is within seconds and is practically pain free. It's very purpose is to treat animals kindly.

Whatever. We in central Europe find it terrible. And I really believe it should be banned from all of Europe.

Anyway, In my country it is verboten. It is even verboten to import from countries practicing that, However, we have a lively Jewish community.

We also banned Halal, or whatever it is called, and the construction of minarets on our soil. On account of not harmonizing with our beautiful alpine landscape. But that did not prevented Switzerland to be a beloved Ziel for Muslims.

So, what is the problem? The claim that forbidding those customs make it impossible for Jews and Muslims to live in the place that forbids them, seems to be contradicted by evidence.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Subduction Zone]

Whatever. We in central Europe find it terrible. And I really believe it should be banned from all of Europe.

Anyway, In my country it is verboten. It is even verboten to import from countries practicing that, However, we have a lively Jewish community.

We also banned Halal, or whatever it is called, and the construction of minarets on our soil. On account of not harmonizing with our beautiful alpine landscape. But that did not prevented Switzerland to be a beloved Ziel of Muslims.

So, what is the problem? The claim that forbidding those customs make it impossible for Jews and Muslims to live in the place that forbids them, seems to be contradicted by evidence.

Ciao

- viole

I
I changed my mind on the "barbaric" term after I saw videos of halal butchery. It clearly is not painless and there are clearly better ways to do this. It may have been relatively humane when first developed, but like so many religious beliefs the followers of it cannot see that we can improve how we act. If one insists that one's religion demands it then it is only evidence for an inferior religion.

 

[rosends]

Whatever. We in central Europe find it terrible. And I really believe it should be banned from all of Europe.

Anyway, In my country it is verboten. It is even verboten to import from countries practicing that, However, we have a lively Jewish community.

We also banned Halal, or whatever it is called, and the construction of minarets on our soil. On account of not harmonizing with our beautiful alpine landscape. But that did not prevented Switzerland to be a beloved Ziel for Muslims.

So, what is the problem? The claim that forbidding those customs make it impossible for Jews and Muslims to live in the place that forbids them, seems to be contradicted by evidence.

Ciao

- viole

Have things changed since the situation described in this article?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...te-not-true-muslim-islam-jewish-a7908951.html

 

[IndigoChild5559]

We can agree to disagree about that.
But as I said, I don't oppose either method, so it's a non-issue.

Laws are often unreasonable, eg, banning animal fur clothing.
But the law is the law. Why would Jews (& Muslims) have to leave
if butchering laws changed?

They don't absolutely HAVE to.
Some Jews are not kosher.
Some Jews who are kosher are vegetarian or pescatarian.
Some Jews maintain a quasi kosher state where they eat clean meats, but the cheaper non-kosher meats.

But there are many, many Jews who will not give up meat and that meat has to be kosher. These are the Jews who practice Orthodox and Conservative Judaism. It would be a hefty loss.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No. They can be barbaric somewhere else.

Nothing barbaric about a perfectly humanitarian slaughter practice.

 

[viole]

Have things changed since the situation described in this article?
No, Switzerland isn't voting on whether to ban imports of halal and kosher meat

I have to check. It might be that the bill against import has not been submitted yet.

But could you tell the difference, between Kosher and no Kosher meat? If not, why do you care?

Ciao

- viole

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The observable evidence contradicts that claim. A stunned cow collapses immediately. A cow that has had its throat cut is still kicking and squirming. It is obviously not enjoying the process. A stunned cow is all but dead. It does not react.

You are probably thinking of the abuses, such as with Agriprocessors. These are times when Kosher isn't "kosher." Jews are similarly outraged.

When kosher slaughter is done correcty, such is not the case.

 

[rosends]

I have to check. It might be that the bill against import has not been submitted yet.

But could you tell the difference, between Kosher and no Kosher meat? If not, why do you care?

Ciao

- viole

Could I tell the difference in what context? Like if you handed me a burger and I didn't know? I assume not (though never having eaten non-kosher meat, I have no way of knowing). But I don't observe these laws because it makes for a tastier burger. I am subject, in my life, to many laws created by various authorities, divine and human. I don't turn around and say "can anyone really tell if I stop at a red light at 3AM when no one is around, so who cares if I follow the law..."

 

[viole]

Could I tell the difference in what context? Like if you handed me a burger and I didn't know? I assume not (though never having eaten non-kosher meat, I have no way of knowing). But I don't observe these laws because it makes for a tastier burger. I am subject, in my life, to many laws created by various authorities, divine and human. I don't turn around and say "can anyone really tell if I stop at a red light at 3AM when no one is around, so who cares if I follow the law..."

Well, that is a strange law considering that from a physical point of view you have no way to say the difference. It is entirely possible that you ate a lot of non kosher meat without knowing.

And I cannot imagine the creator of the whole Universe caring about how you cook meat.

Suppose you did eat some non kosher meat, what happens? To your soul or whatever. Could you say the difference?

Ciao

- viole

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Genesis 16 where the Angel is talking to Hagar.

It says that Ishmael will have problems, but not Ishmaelites, to the best of my knowledge. We can go into this in greater depth if you would like. It's possible that other Jews will disagree.

 

[Cooky]

Hey, I know... Lets pass laws that force people to stun animals because everyone has to do what we say, er else!

In fact, lets ban hunting altogether because we are all a bunch of ****ies.