Covid-19 vaccine efficacy?

[We Never Know]

But those are the appropriate comparisons to make: between the risks from the virus and the risks from the vaccine.



No. It *is* deadly. People die from it. Our hospitals are full of people with it to the place that *other* people can't get beds.

And why is it that those that argue that the virus is only 'potentially deadly' are the same ones that don't want to wear masks or otherwise prevent *contracting the virus*?

I've had covid, haven't taken the vaccine, but wear a mask when around crowds(which is very rare) or required. Its not that big of a deal.

I haven't seen anyone say avoid it, don't take the vaccine. I've seen some on both sides say it should be choice.

I haven't seen anyone say people taking the vaccine are stupid. They have said that's their choice. I agree with that.

I have seen several say people that don't take the vaccine are stupid and should be forced. I disagree with that.

@Trailblazer is simply saying is they know its deadly but its only deadly to you if you get it. Its the same with AIDS, etc.
Taking precautions, not going around crowds, etc is taking steps not to get or spread covid. Sadly some don't even do that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, I don't. I find it to be irresponsible and stupid.



And compared to the very real risk from the virus, the small risk of the vaccine is minimal.



As opposed to DYING of the virus. Sorry, the mild fever is a small thing in comparison.



So, for example, a new asthma medication came out 40 years ago. It allowed me to breathe. But nobody knew the long term effects of taking this medicine. But I took it because not breathing was a greater risk than maybe having liver issues 40 years later.



WRONG. The materials in the virus are gone from your body is a couple of weeks.



Some meds stay in the body. Some are metabolized in ways that affect other systems. That is NOT the case for these vaccines.



No, I truly don't. Again, it seems like straining at a gnat while swallowing a whale. The unknown factors are far outweighed by the risks of catching the virus. This virus KILLS.

If you genuinely don't understand why people choose not to vaccinate then judging them for their decision doesn't make sense. You usually make judgements on what you understand objectively to determine the reasoning regardless your position on the topic.

 

[Trailblazer]

But those are the appropriate comparisons to make: between the risks from the virus and the risks from the vaccine.

It is not what YOU consider appropriate but it is appropriate for me.
Are there any statistics on the risks of contracting the virus if one is isolated from other people except for going to a grocery store twice a week at closing time when there are only a few people in the store wearing a mask and socially distanced?

No. It *is* deadly. People die from it. Our hospitals are full of people with it to the place that *other* people can't get beds.

It is not always deadly if one contracts it. If it was always deadly everyone who tested positive would be dead, but we all know that is not the case. Positive cases are not equal to deaths.

And why is it that those that argue that the virus is only 'potentially deadly' are the same ones that don't want to wear masks or otherwise prevent *contracting the virus*?

I don't care what other people do, I am only responsible for myself. I rarely see another soul but when I do I always wear a mask.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is not what YOU consider appropriate but it is appropriate for me.
Are there any statistics on the risks of contracting the virus if one is isolated from other people except for going to a grocery store twice a week at closing time when there are only a few people in the store wearing a mask and socially distanced?

It is not always deadly if one contracts it. If it was always deadly everyone who tested positive would be dead, but we all know that is not the case. Positive cases are not equal to deaths.

I don't care what other people do, I am only responsible for myself. I rarely see another soul but when I do I always wear a mask.

I honestly believe where the provax argument falls flat.

If you're not around people at all you can't catch COVID

How does you not vaccinating in this situation prevent herd immunity?

It sounds like they have an issue with not vaccinating in general. The idea of not vaccinating and it's possible consequences distorts the circumstances in which vax may be beneficial and other times it's optional.

 

[Trailblazer]

I stated it like that, but I think it’s likely the opposite really:

Those NOT getting it now are doing so for selfish reasons.

It’s just a matter of containing the spread so all the tired, worn out healthcare workers can catch a break.

I started wearing my mask again a few days ago, and I don’t care about myself. I’m vaccinated and have no fear. I go to stores where employees have to wear masks now, and I do it for them. I’ve talked to a some workers months ago, and I realized many of them need their jobs badly, but are fearful of getting Covid.

Some of the vaccinated are so proud of themselves and think they are so great and they judge the unvaccinated and call them stupid.

I consider it despicable to treat other people this way and I see it for exactly what it is. It is all about ego -- I am better than you because *** I *** got vaccinated.

Matthew 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

 

[Trailblazer]

I honestly believe where the provax argument falls flat.

If you're not around people at all you can't catch COVID

How does you not vaccinating I this situation prevent herd immunity?

The provax refuse to look at the exceptions, they just lump all people together as if everyone is the same.

They completely ignore us when we bring this up, they just go back to their provax mantra.

It sounds like they have an issue with not vaccinating in general. The idea of not vaccinating and it's possible consequences distorts the circumstances in which vax may be beneficial and other times it's optional.

Yes, that is exactly what is going on but they cannot see it through their provax bias.

 

[Trailblazer]

Exactly. I don't think many know and/or self-acknowledge that it is fear that's driving them to make their decisions to vaccinate (and not vaccinate) and not only the facts read by both parties.

No, they will never admit it is fear that drives them even if they know because they want it to be all about their valor.

 

[Lyndon]

Yes its ridiculous and irrational fear that drives people to not get the vaccine

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes its ridiculous and irrational fear that drives people to not get the vaccine

It's more the opposite. The minority are not vaxed. Unless you guys aren't afraid of catching COVID,

In the war against the virus
In the middle of the "pandemic"
Where the virus is killing thousands a day!
And you (people) are part of the problem

Fear manifests in different ways.

 

[Lyndon]

its fear of science and fear of the vaccine

 

[Polymath257]

If you genuinely don't understand why people choose not to vaccinate then judging them for their decision doesn't make sense. You usually make judgements on what you understand objectively to determine the reasoning regardless your position on the topic.

From what I observe, they seem to be concerned about possible side effects of the vaccine while being very unconcerned about the known effects of the virus.

That combination makes no sense to me.

 

[Polymath257]

The provax refuse to look at the exceptions, they just lump all people together as if everyone is the same.

Exceptions include those who are immunocompromised to the point they cannot produce a good immune response to the virus. Another potential exception would be someone who is an absolute hermit: not interacting with *anyone* else.

Everyone else should get a vaccine.

They completely ignore us when we bring this up, they just go back to their provax mantra.

Well, part of it is the number of people who seem to think they are exceptions when they are not.

Yes, that is exactly what is going on but they cannot see it through their provax bias.

In almost every case, unless there is a valid medical reason to the contrary, it is far better to get a vaccine instead of risking the disease.

I honestly believe where the provax argument falls flat.

If you're not around people at all you can't catch COVID

How does you not vaccinating in this situation prevent herd immunity?

Herd immunity happens when enough people are resistant to the virus. not vaccinating makes that harder to achieve. Eventually, there will be herd immunity, but it may be after all the unvaxed people have caught the virus and 1 in 50 have died.

It sounds like they have an issue with not vaccinating in general. The idea of not vaccinating and it's possible consequences distorts the circumstances in which vax may be beneficial and other times it's optional.

I have an issue with stupidity, yes. In a situation like this, it is the unvaxed people that are filling up the hospital beds, putting everyone else at increased risk.

Frankly, if the only people who were affected were the unvaxed, I would say that we should let the stupidity run its course. But that is NOT the case: people who need emergency services are now being turned away because the unvaxed are filling up hospital beds. The unvaxed are giving a population of people who form a reservoir for new variants to arise and spread, putting everyone at risk if one of those variants is more resistant to the vaccines or is more infectious than others.

At each and every stage of this disease, some people have consistently taken the worst possible decisions: from refusing to lock down, to refusing to wear masks, to refusing to get vaccinated.

At some point, we have to point to those people and say that they are being a clear and present danger to others.

At the very least, they should not get hospital beds for COVID unless every other emergency has been treated first. Nor should their insurance be expected to pay for their stupidity.

 

[sun rise]

We are not comparing the two. We just aren't afraid of getting the virus.
Why does everyone want us to be afraid just because they are afraid?

You're not afraid even though millions have died throughout the world? You're not afraid of long term disability from the virus (long Covid) with uncertain results but sometimes needing transplants? You're not afraid of infecting your parents, friends, children and others and having them winding up dead etc?

I also take it you don't care what happens to other human beings because of your acts.

 

[sun rise]

Some people wrongly believe that wearing a mask prevents them from catching COVID. That's false. Many people catch the D variant who are masked.

 

[We Never Know]

Exceptions include those who are immunocompromised to the point they cannot produce a good immune response to the virus. Another potential exception would be someone who is an absolute hermit: not interacting with *anyone* else.

Everyone else should get a vaccine.



Well, part of it is the number of people who seem to think they are exceptions when they are not.



In almost every case, unless there is a valid medical reason to the contrary, it is far better to get a vaccine instead of risking the disease.



Herd immunity happens when enough people are resistant to the virus. not vaccinating makes that harder to achieve. Eventually, there will be herd immunity, but it may be after all the unvaxed people have caught the virus and 1 in 50 have died.



I have an issue with stupidity, yes. In a situation like this, it is the unvaxed people that are filling up the hospital beds, putting everyone else at increased risk.

Frankly, if the only people who were affected were the unvaxed, I would say that we should let the stupidity run its course. But that is NOT the case: people who need emergency services are now being turned away because the unvaxed are filling up hospital beds. The unvaxed are giving a population of people who form a reservoir for new variants to arise and spread, putting everyone at risk if one of those variants is more resistant to the vaccines or is more infectious than others.

At each and every stage of this disease, some people have consistently taken the worst possible decisions: from refusing to lock down, to refusing to wear masks, to refusing to get vaccinated.

At some point, we have to point to those people and say that they are being a clear and present danger to others.

At the very least, they should not get hospital beds for COVID unless every other emergency has been treated first. Nor should their insurance be expected to pay for their stupidity.

Question about herd immunity. If 80% is needed..... 40% get vaccinated and 40% had it and survived, wont that be 80%?

 

[We Never Know]

Some people wrongly believe that wearing a mask prevents them from catching COVID. That's false. Many people catch the D variant who are masked.

There is really nothing that prevents it but precautions cut down the chances.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From what I observe, they seem to be concerned about possible side effects of the vaccine while being very unconcerned about the known effects of the virus.

That combination makes no sense to me.

It's focusing on what we can control vs what we can't. A couple days ago one lady fair in age said why people worrying about COVID in the sense that they're not staying in the present moment and to her letting god handle it.

It's an illusion of control.

But if one unfortunate person died of heart problems cause he took the vaccine it was his choice and he took the risk.

That and I truly believe it's situational. Trailblazer does not need to take the vaccine. How do the provax arguments: misinformation, covidiots, and justified segregation apply to her?

It highly depends on how much fear one has of catching COVID.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You're not afraid even though millions have died throughout the world? You're not afraid of long term disability from the virus (long Covid) with uncertain results but sometimes needing transplants? You're not afraid of infecting your parents, friends, children and others and having them winding up dead etc?

I also take it you don't care what happens to other human beings because of your acts.

She's alone. Why would these things be an issue?

 

[We Never Know]

From what I observe, they seem to be concerned about possible side effects of the vaccine while being very unconcerned about the known effects of the virus.

That combination makes no sense to me.

Here is what I see sometimes here and on another social media.


John - there's a deadly virus going around so you need to take this vaccine.

Bill - will I get the virus

John - I don't know so you need to take this vaccine

Bill - can I do things to help avoid the virus

John - yes you can take precautions but it is not 100% so you need to take this vaccine.

Bill - is it 100% that I will get the virus

John - no but its deadly if you do so you need to take this vaccine

Bill - so I may not even get the virus?

John - that's correct still you need to take this vaccine in case you do

Bill - so I may not get it, I can do things to help avoid it, and I could be fine

John - that's correct still you need to take this vaccine just in case

Bill - but I may not get it and even if I do I could survive?

John - that's is correct so you need to take this vaccine just in case.

Bill - what if I already had the virus and easily survived and take precautions and don't go around hardly any people

John - doesn't matter, you need to take this vaccine

Bill - what are long term side effects? Could any be severe

John - we don't know but if you get the virus you could die so you need to take this vaccine

 

[Trailblazer]

You're not afraid even though millions have died throughout the world? You're not afraid of long term disability from the virus (long Covid) with uncertain results but sometimes needing transplants? You're not afraid of infecting your parents, friends, children and others and having them winding up dead etc?

No, I am not afraid, because I have no contact with other humans, except my husband, who also has no other contact with other humans. I have no parents, children, or other family, and I have no friends I see in person

I also take it you don't care what happens to other human beings because of your acts.

Nothing is going to happen to anyone because of "my acts" because I have no contact with other humans, except my husband, who also has no other contact with other humans.

What about this don't you understand? Is it because you cannot imagine being socially isolated it cannot be real?

My husband and I could both get the vaccine tomorrow and it would not change our life situation or make any difference to anyone else. Why then does it make sense to get the vaccination, just so we can be added to a list of the vaccinated? I don't do things that don't make sense. I a not going to get a passport "just in case", not unless I plan on traveling outside of the country.