Creation and Evolution Compatible...Questions

[ecco]

... my alternative is that I have a really good naturopath who gives me herbal remedies

I am not at all surprised to find that you trust herbal remedies recommended by a naturopath.

One trait that is common among religious folk is a belief in simpliticism. You complain about big pharma, but readily accept the claims of the herbal industry.

The Herbal Minefield

Americans spend billions of dollars per year for capsules, tablets, bulk herbs, and herbal teas.

Herbs are also marketed by naturopaths, acupuncturists, iridologists, chiropractors, offbeat nutritionists, and unlicensed herbalists, many of whom prescribe them for the entire gamut of health problems. Most such practitioners are not qualified to make appropriate medical diagnoses or to determine how the products they prescribe compare to proven drugs.

The manufacture of prescription and over-the-counter drugs is closely regulated by the FDA, But herbal products are not.

More misinformation about the safety and efficacy of herbs is reaching the public currently than at any previous time, including the turn-of-the-century heyday of patent medicines. The literature promoting herbs includes pamphlets, magazine articles, and books ranging in quality from cheaply printed flyers to elaborately produced studies in fine bindings with attractive illustrations.

Particularly insidious is the myth that there is something almost magical about herbal drugs that prevents them, in their natural state, from harming people.​

 

[ecco]

People are free to choose to believe whatever they wish. Since the Bible predicts that "few" would actually be found faithful at the full limit of the times....what you say is sadly true. They have adopted stories more far fetched than the ones they threw away. They will realize this soon enough.

Unfortunately, they won't. When you are dead, you will not notice that you are dead. You won't realize that you are not in the heaven (or wherever) that your religion promised you. You'll just be dead. Just like every other living thing that has ever lived.


RE: Advances in science...

I would hope so....but has it reached a stage where it knows everything? Sometimes it gives the impression that it does.

That is your unsubstantiated opinion. Care to back it up with facts?

No actually, we discovered that 1914 was the beginning of the "last days"...not the end. Exciting isn't it? I can wait for as long as it takes. What about you?

What about me? Well, for one thing I despise liars. For another, I have no respect for those who see lies and try to rational them.


emphases in the original

1914 - Failed Watchtower prophecy - Falsified History

1914 : Failed Watchtower Prophecy
One of the most misleading statements in Watchtower publications is that they accurately foretold 1914 to be the “start” of the conclusion of this system of things. Rather, Watchtower falsely predicted 1914 to be the “end” of the system of things, the conclusion of Armageddon and the start of the earthly paradise.

What Watchtower said prior to 1914

"The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord - …" The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239

"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the endof the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower1894 Jul 15 p.226




​

What Watchtower claims it said prior to 1914

"The Watchtower has consistentlypresented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower 1993 Jan 15 p.5

"Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8



​

The contradictory statements above help identify two critical facts:

1. Watchtower falsely predicted this system would end in 1914
2. Watchtower is not entirely honest about its history

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unfortunately, they won't. When you are dead, you will not notice that you are dead. You won't realize that you are not in the heaven (or wherever) that your religion promised you. You'll just be dead. Just like every other living thing that has ever lived.


RE: Advances in science...

That is your unsubstantiated opinion. Care to back it up with facts?




What about me? Well, for one thing I despise liars. For another, I have no respect for those who see lies and try to rational them.


emphases in the original

1914 - Failed Watchtower prophecy - Falsified History

1914 : Failed Watchtower Prophecy
One of the most misleading statements in Watchtower publications is that they accurately foretold 1914 to be the “start” of the conclusion of this system of things. Rather, Watchtower falsely predicted 1914 to be the “end” of the system of things, the conclusion of Armageddon and the start of the earthly paradise.

What Watchtower said prior to 1914

"The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord - …" The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239

"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the endof the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower1894 Jul 15 p.226




​

What Watchtower claims it said prior to 1914

"The Watchtower has consistentlypresented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower 1993 Jan 15 p.5

"Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8



​

The contradictory statements above help identify two critical facts:

1. Watchtower falsely predicted this system would end in 1914
2. Watchtower is not entirely honest about its history

When push comes in to shove many will believe that history is wrong and that was not what was predicted.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Peer review....how much store do you put by it.....? Is it worthy of your faith?

No faith is needed. You can repeat the experiments found in the papers.

I don't need to demonstrate anything. Creation is demonstration enough. When I say I see evidence for the hand of an all powerful Creator who demonstrates incredible ingenuity in his designs, that is exactly what I mean.

You need to present evidence, not merely say the word.

This is all the proof I need. I have eyes and a heart drawn to the beauty of these creatures. How can you think that these just designed themselves by undirected accident? Why do we find them beautiful?
We are the only ones on the planet who can appreciate beauty for its own sake....because we are designed that way.

Will you be presenting any evidence any time soon? Do you even understand what evidence is?

 

[ArtieE]

Who says? Man has only advanced in science in the last 100 years.....what worked for him before all that?

Blaming Thor for thunder and Poseidon for earthquakes may have worked for some people but not for those after the truth...

The Creator gave us the intelligence to study what he created.....

You meant to say: "I believe there's a Creator and I believe this Creator gave us the intelligence to study what he created..." you aren't stating a fact only your opinion.

so now in the last 100 years, he has become so clever that he doesn't need God anymore....

That is correct. Meteorologists don't need Thor anymore and seismologists don't need Poseidon any more.

Compared with the Creator, the most intelligent human on earth would have the mentality of a snail.

You meant to say: "I believe there's a Creator and I believe compared with the Creator, the most intelligent human on earth would have the mentality of a snail". You aren't stating a fact only your opinion.

I'm not sure that God ever claimed to be the "father" of fruit flies or bananas....

Then who would be the father of fruit flies if not the one who allegedly created them?

but he did claim the human race as his 'children' though,

You mean to say that according to one of the authors of the Bible there is a god and this author claims that this god claim the human race as his "children"?

He directly created the first pair and told them to "fill the earth" with their "kind"...

You mean to say that according to one of the authors of the Bible there is a god and that this god directly created the first pair and told them to "fill the earth" with their "kind"..."

Since neither of us have reached the end of their road yet...I will wait to see the outcome.....what about you?
If you're right...what have I lost?......if I'm right, what have you lost? Its a fair question.

I'll just wait and see. For all I know the reincarnation believers are right I'll just take whatever comes.

I have no problem understanding that cells are programmed to become whatever creature they are coded to produce. A brontosaurus would have been the product of two brontosauruses combining their DNA to produce another brontosaurus. There is nothing in the fossil record that even suggests that there is some "chain" linking all these creatures in an evolutionary line of descent....that is all supposition based on nothing but an idea of what "might have" happened.

It's based on the idea that I came out of my mother and she came out of her mother and she came out of her mother and she came out of her mother and that every generation is a natural result of the previous generation all the way back to the first cell. You are the one who's saying "I came out of my mother, and she came out of her mother, and she came out of her mother, and she came out of her mother, and her mother was designed and created by a god..." You are the one who has to provide some pretty extraordinarily convincing evidence if you want me to change from "her mother came out of her mother" to "her mother was designed and created by a god".

A single cell that popped up in some primordial "soup" in the dim dark past would produce what? From what we know, it would produce a replica of itself.

Some exact replicas and some not so exact. And those not exact replicas might also produce not so exact replicas.

No actually, my alternative is that I have a really good naturopath who gives me herbal remedies and recommendations to overcome deficiencies in my diet that get to the cause of my problems. It works on my dog too. I gave up on doctors a long time ago...all they want to do is load you up with drugs that make you worse, and don't cure anything.

That is great! Now, give us all your cures for cancer and heart disease here.

The orthodox medical system as it stands today IMO is a sick joke

OK, then provide me with an alternative medical system, show that it is as good as or better than the orthodox one, and I'll switch to it. Or are you just playing a sick joke on people when you criticize the orthodox medical system which may be some people's only hope without providing a viable alternative?

 

[ArtieE]

"Many people also need medicine to control their high blood pressure. Your doctor will tell you if you need medicine, and monitor its effects. Blood pressure medicines don’t cure high blood pressure, but they help to control it. You have to keep taking the medicines regularly, often for the rest of your life. Don’t stop taking your medicine without talking to your doctor first."

What causes high blood pressure | The Heart Foundation

Customers for life.

No cures......just symptom control.

And your cure is...?

 

[SkepticThinker]

No actually, my alternative is that I have a really good naturopath who gives me herbal remedies and recommendations to overcome deficiencies in my diet that get to the cause of my problems. It works on my dog too. I gave up on doctors a long time ago...all they want to do is load you up with drugs that make you worse, and don't cure anything.
That is my personal decision because JW's have no rules concerning personal choice of medical treatments.

The orthodox medical system as it stands today IMO is a sick joke....and big pharma are laughing all the way to the bank, whilst its patients are crying all the way to their early graves. But I get the impression that the tide is turning and more people are seeing what is happening and are tired of doctors not knowing what to do to successfully address their health concerns and charging like wounded elephants for the privilege of being told that all they can do is give them drugs that will hopefully make the symptoms manageable. They are, after all, educated by the system that manufactures the drugs.

Autoimmune disorders are on the rise because of the lifestyle, poor diet and toxic chemicals that we are all exposed to in the west....the orthodox approach is powerless in addressing even the symptoms, let alone to advise anyone about what to do to gain relief, long term.

The issues regarding medicinal cannabis have stirred a hornet's nest and people are now realizing why this harmless plant was demonized decades ago to stop it from helping people as an effective medicine for so many ailments. Big pharma did not want it to make people well.....classifying it as a dangerous and harmful drug...a menace to society, worked for decades...but the truth is out...big pharma lied and is being exposed for the racketeering fraud that it always was. This is one conspiracy theory that is proving to be correct. What if they had the means to cure cancer decades ago and they found a way to keep it from us by hijacking the medical system? People have no idea how deep the corruption goes....but they are beginning to find out. God said he would expose it...and he is.

My uncle tried using only a naturopath as well. It almost killed him. She had him drinking hydrogen peroxide and injecting it into his bloodstream. He had my grandfather doing that a few years ago as well, before he died of cancer. My grandfather ended up having to get a fecal transplant to replace all of his gut bacteria that the peroxide had killed off. They were both under the impression that hydrogen peroxide treatments would cure their cancers (my uncle read this in a nonsensical book called "The One Minute Cure"). Sadly, both of them ended up with cancer. My grandfather died from his.

Now that my uncle has decided to switch to modern medicine and has opted for chemotherapy and surgery, finally his health is improving and he's been brought back from the brink of death. The stuff that is being spread out there on Naturalnews.com and other similar sites is dangerous and it's irresponsible to spread false, unverified "information" to sick people.


P.S. I've pointed out to you several times now that "Big Pharma" manufactures medical marijuana in many forms.

 

[Deeje]

I am not at all surprised to find that you trust herbal remedies recommended by a naturopath.

One trait that is common among religious folk is a belief in simpliticism. You complain about big pharma, but readily accept the claims of the herbal industry.

"simpliticism"..... I had to look that word up.....I think you made it up.

Did you ever consider the reason why people choose to opt out of the orthodox medical system?
Could it be that they were sick and tired of being.....sick and tired?

If the medical establishment was effecting cures and treatments with no horrendous side effects, and people were actually getting well with their "treatments", then there would be no need to search for an alternative in the first place. Thank God the alternative practitioners and health food stores exist.....but we wonder for how long? So many people are choosing these as a way to get healthy. Do they make money off this? Of course they do, but what about the cost in the orthodox system?...and with not much in the way of a success rate in curing anyone. I have had more results with natural therapists than I ever had with doctors.

How many ways are we exposed to the things that make us sick? Aren't they all man made? It seems as if the world we live in at present is designed by greedy humans to deliberately accomplish this.

I have also had way more success in treating illness by preventing it than by taking pills to suppress symptoms of something my body was telling me was wrong. Naturopaths are like doctors....some of them are complete quacks. But I have found that good alternative practitioners are very good at diagnosing and treating the cause of disease rather than just masking the symptoms with artificial chemicals. The whole pharma industry is based on "artificial" substances that are not compatible with the human body.....that is what causes the side effects....and there are always a long list of them.....or haven't you noticed?

The K.I.S.S principle works in medicine just as it does in many other areas of life. Complexity doesn't always solve problems.

The Herbal Minefield
Americans spend billions of dollars per year for capsules, tablets, bulk herbs, and herbal teas.

Herbs are also marketed by naturopaths, acupuncturists, iridologists,

chiropractors, offbeat nutritionists, and unlicensed herbalists, many of whom prescribe them for the entire gamut of health problems. Most such practitioners are not qualified to make appropriate medical diagnoses or to determine how the products they prescribe compare to proven drugs.

The manufacture of prescription and over-the-counter drugs is closely regulated by the FDA, But herbal products are not.

More misinformation about the safety and efficacy of herbs is reaching the public currently than at any previous time, including the turn-of-the-century heyday of patent medicines. The literature promoting herbs includes pamphlets, magazine articles, and books ranging in quality from cheaply printed flyers to elaborately produced studies in fine bindings with attractive illustrations.

Particularly insidious is the myth that there is something almost magical about herbal drugs that prevents them, in their natural state, from harming people.

Herbs are the basis of many drugs used by the pharmaceutical industry because they are known to treat disease, but because they cannot patent a plant, they must extract components and make drugs out of them, devoid of the rest of the necessary compounds that make it efficacious. They add artificially produced substances that make the body respond negatively to it...side effects are the body's way of saying that it is not accepting of what is being put into it. So what does big pharma do? They will give you other drugs to treat the side effects and then others to treat those side effects and......cher ching! $$$$$....Talk about the billions!?.....Do you see something wrong with this picture?

I like the comment after that incredibly biased and misinformed article you quoted....

"Reader Response (2/14/00)

You, sir, are the quack. How could you even think of saying, "With safe and effective medicines available, treatment with herbs rarely makes sense."? The correct statement would be: "With all those dangerous drugs available, with all those terrible side effects, treatment with herbs is the only choice." All pharmaceuticals are toxic to the human body. Over 150,000 hospital patients die every year from taking the prescribed dosage of a drug prescribed to them by their doctor. Drugs have their place—in emergencies only—or when a condition has become so bad that the patient is willing to deal with the side effects in order to treat the main problem. Modern "medicine" is more of a scam than herbal medicine could ever be. If people with health problems would stay away from drug stores and spend more time in health food stores, people would live longer, stay healthier, and have a better quality of life. Talk to the men who take blood pressure "medicine" and can no longer get an erection. Talk to the relatives of the men who died from taking viagra. Drugs only address the symptoms, herbs address the cause. Drugs simply mask the symptoms, herbs assist in the healing.


I have a B.S. in education from Indiana State University, have been studying natural medicine for 17 years, and have been working as a health food store manager and nutritional consultant for 7 years. My disdain for pharmaceutical industry is the result of hearing the horror stories of my customers about the side effects of the drugs they have used. Many of the herb shop customers of today are people who have had bad experiences with prescription drugs and/or doctors who won't listen to or work with them. In a way i am thankful for the drug industry, because they drive many people into health food stores. I don't mean to imply that there is no place for drugs, because there definitely is a place for them. However drugs should be the last resort"

I have to agree with the sentiments expressed here.

 

[gnostic]

But your interpretation of experiment can't be wrong or seen from the wrong perspective. You don't need to be able to see that man created agriculture through selection of appropriate behaviors. We didn't take the smaller, weaker, less adaptive individuals to breed, we used the ones that exhibited the meekest behavior. Just because we don't know what killed off most of some species in the past doesn't mean the strongest survived. The ones with the "proper" behavior survived.

I think you are misinterpreting phrase the “survival of the fittest”.

It has nothing to do with strength or intelligence. These attributes only served the immediate generation, not passed on to further hundreds of generations in the future.

The “fittest” mean don’t mean doing the exercises and being fit, toned or anything like that.

What the “fittest” mean is, being able to adapt and fit in that niche of that particular environment (eg terrains, climate, the availability of food and water, etc), and surviving, and being to pass on the necessary genes to thrive in the generations to come.

Butterflies can survive in the same environment as the European wasps, because there are niche where they have adapted and “fitted” in, despite being the weaker insect type.

 

[cladking]

I think you are misinterpreting phrase the “survival of the fittest”.

It has nothing to do with strength or intelligence. These attributes only served the immediate generation, not passed on to further hundreds of generations in the future.

The “fittest” mean don’t mean doing the exercises and being fit, toned or anything like that.

What the “fittest” mean is, being able to adapt and fit in that niche of that particular environment (eg terrains, climate, the availability of food and water, etc), and surviving, and being to pass on the necessary genes to thrive in the generations to come.

Butterflies can survive in the same environment as the European wasps, because there are niche where they have adapted and “fitted” in, despite being the weaker insect type.

Yes, obviously the fittest and most adaptable have the best chance to survive but when the fittest and most adaptable survive they merely breed pretty much the exact same species!

This misses EVERYTHING that results in change in species.

Consciousness plays a major role because it tends to drive fitness and adaptability. But more importantly consciousness drives BEHAVIOR and it is behavior that causes change in species. This seems counterintuitive but only because we don't see that most change in species is the result of near extinction events; population bottlenecks. It is here where most of a species is eliminated largely due to conscious choices. Individuals which prefer dense cover are more likely to survive some rare astronomical event like a large solar mass hitting the planet. These individuals behave differently because at the very heart of all behavior is our genes. The few individuals which survive are genetically different than the rest of the species and they will breed an entirely new species. A "chicken-like" mother will lay the first chicken egg.

"Survival of the fittest" underlies the madness that was the 20th century. It underlies the concept of the "subconscious" and the horrors that devolve from this. "Evolution" simply doesn't exist as it is envisioned and every observation and logic confirms it. Species change but significant changes are largely the result of bottlenecks and consciousness or from mutation. The gradual changes that are interpreted from the fossil record simply is tertiary to virtually nonexistent in change in species.

 

[ecco]

"simpliticism"..... I had to look that word up.....I think you made it up.

I did. I Here's another one - simplisticans.
Simpliticans believe...

• Evolution is complex, it can't be right. Goddidit is simple, it must be right.
• Researching medicine is complex, it can't be right. God gave us natural herbs is simple, it must be right.

Did you ever consider the reason why people choose to opt out of the orthodox medical system?

Of course I've considered the reasons. Let's look at some reasons.

• Some people get told they have an incurable condition, so they grasp at straws. Steve McQueen went to Mexico because he could get treated with a walnut compound to cure his cancer.
• Some people want money and notoriety. Andrew Wakefield came up with the idea that vaccines cause autism. He did really crappy research. He went on speaking tours and wrote books about the horrors of vaccines. He made, and thanks to simpliticans, is still making a lot of money.
• Some people are desperate for answers. People who had kids with autism bought into Wakefield's BS.
• Many people are gullible. Simplisticans are especially gullible.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htmBefore the middle of the last century, diseases like whooping cough, polio, measles, Haemophilus influenzae, and rubella struck hundreds of thousands of infants, children and adults in the U.S.. Thousands died every year from them. As vaccines were developed and became widely used, rates of these diseases declined until today most of them are nearly gone from our country.​

• Nearly everyone in the U.S. got measles before there was a vaccine, and hundreds died from it each year. Today, most doctors have never seen a case of measles.
• More than 15,000 Americans died from diphtheria in 1921, before there was a vaccine. Only two cases of diphtheria have been reported to CDC between 2004 and 2014.
• An epidemic of rubella (German measles) in 1964-65 infected 12½ million Americans, killed 2,000 babies, and caused 11,000 miscarriages. Since 2012, 15 cases of rubella were reported to CDC.

If the medical establishment was effecting cures and treatments with no horrendous side effects, and people were actually getting well with their "treatments", then there would be no need to search for an alternative in the first place. Thank God the alternative practitioners and health food stores exist.....but we wonder for how long? So many people are choosing these as a way to get healthy. Do they make money off this? Of course they do, but what about the cost in the orthodox system?...and with not much in the way of a success rate in curing anyone. I have had more results with them than I ever had with doctors.

See above.

The whole pharma industry is based on "artificial" substances that are not compatible with the human body.....that is what causes the side effects....and there are always a long list of them.....or haven't you noticed?

You are showing your simplisticism again.

With any substance ingested, there are risk factors. Drug companies do extensive testing because the are legally required to do so. In any large scale test, there will be side effects. By law, drug companies must report these side effects.
With any substance ingested, there are risk factors. Purveyors of herbal remedies are under no legal requirements to conduct large scale tests. Purveyors of herbal remedies have no legal obligation to tell anyone of possible side effects.

This is from a website promoting herbals...

10 Amazing Benefits of St. John's Wort | Organic Facts
Health Benefits of St. John’s Wort

• Anti-depressant Qualities
• Relieves Anxiety
• Reduces Mood Swings
• Eases Withdrawal Symptoms
• Antiviral Agent
• Restores Hormonal Balance
• Anti-inflammatory Agent
• Skin Care
• Reduces Pregnancy Pains
• Prevents Cancer

This is a website actually selling St John's Wort

Nature's Bounty St. John's Wort 300 mg Capsules 100 ea - Pharmapacks

(in fine print)
St. John's Wort promotes a positive mood and a healthy emotional balance.*
...
...
*This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.​

Simplisticans will focus on the hype and ignore what the manufacturer states in the fine print.

The K.I.S.S principle works in medicine just as it does in many other areas of life. Complexity doesn't always solve problems.

That's why you drive a Model T Ford (or is it a horse and buggy).
That's why you believe the earth is flat.
That's why I refer to some people as simplisticans.

......cher ching! $$$$$....Talk about the billions!?.....Do you see something wrong with this picture?

I sure do...

Global Herbal Medicine Market Size, Value, 2014-2024 | Industry Report
The global herbal medicine market size was valued at USD 71.19 billion in 2016 and is expected to exhibit profitable growth over the forecast period.
​

Go Simplisticans!

 

[ArtieE]

Did you ever consider the reason why people choose to opt out of the orthodox medical system?
Could it be that they were sick and tired of being.....sick and tired?

If the medical establishment was effecting cures and treatments with no horrendous side effects, and people were actually getting well with their "treatments", then there would be no need to search for an alternative in the first place. Thank God the alternative practitioners and health food stores exist.....but we wonder for how long? So many people are choosing these as a way to get healthy. Do they make money off this? Of course they do, but what about the cost in the orthodox system?...and with not much in the way of a success rate in curing anyone. I have had more results with natural therapists than I ever had with doctors.

Provide some statistics showing how many people with cancer or heart disease alternative practitioners and health food stores have actually cured.

I have a B.S. in education from Indiana State University, have been studying natural medicine for 17 years, and have been working as a health food store manager and nutritional consultant for 7 years. My disdain for pharmaceutical industry is the result of hearing the horror stories of my customers about the side effects of the drugs they have used. Many of the herb shop customers of today are people who have had bad experiences with prescription drugs and/or doctors who won't listen to or work with them. In a way i am thankful for the drug industry, because they drive many people into health food stores. I don't mean to imply that there is no place for drugs, because there definitely is a place for them. However drugs should be the last resort"

I have to agree with the sentiments expressed here.

How many people with cancer or heart disease has this person actually cured?

 

[ecco]

The issues regarding medicinal cannabis have stirred a hornet's nest and people are now realizing why this harmless plant was demonized decades ago to stop it from helping people as an effective medicine for so many ailments. Big pharma did not want it to make people well.....classifying it as a dangerous and harmful drug...a menace to society, worked for decades...but the truth is out...big pharma lied and is being exposed for the racketeering fraud that it always was. This is one conspiracy theory that is proving to be correct.

Once again you show your abject ignorance of facts.

Cannabis was not demonized by Big Pharma. Cannabis was demonized by a Mexican hating racist who wanted to protect his timber profits. Do a little research on William Randolph Hearst.

 

[Audie]

And your cure is...?

Are we talking about appendicitis?

 

[Audie]

Once again you show your abject ignorance of facts.

Cannabis was not demonized by Big Pharma. Cannabis was demonized by a Mexican hating racist who wanted to protect his timber profits. Do a little research on William Randolph Hearst.

Facts v conspiracy theory. How far do you think that will go?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

When you are dead, you will not notice that you are dead. You won't realize that you are not in the heaven (or wherever) that your religion promised you. You'll just be dead. Just like every other living thing that has ever lived.

You may not believe this, but this is exactly what we teach! This is exactly what the Bible says about the dead.

But don’t you wonder, “Why do people claim to speak with their dead loved ones?”?

You think they’re all delusional? (That’s a lot of people, including respected ones like Abraham Lincoln and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, to name just a couple!)

Or, maybe they were (and others are) being deceived by a clever entity?!

https://www.amazon.com/Speak-Dead-People-Can-You/dp/1496078020

"I see dead people" - the woman who talks to ghosts and not only at Halloween

There are just too many to ignore.

 

[Audie]

You may not believe this, but this is exactly what we teach! This is exactly what the Bible says about the dead.

But don’t you wonder, “Why do people claim to speak with their dead loved ones?”?

You think they’re all delusional? (That’s a lot of people, including respected ones like Abraham Lincoln and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, to name just a couple!)

Or, maybe they were (and others are) being deceived by a clever entity?!

https://www.amazon.com/Speak-Dead-People-Can-You/dp/1496078020

"I see dead people" - the woman who talks to ghosts and not only at Halloween

There are just too many to ignore.

Who is ignoring it? Everyone knows of such claims.

But why glorify self deception?

(Hint: :it is essential to all religions)

 

[ecco]

But don’t you wonder, “Why do people claim to speak with their dead loved ones?”?

Desperation. Indoctrination. Delusion. Hope.

You think they’re all delusional? (That’s a lot of people, including respected ones like Abraham Lincoln and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, to name just a couple!)

A.C. Doyle was a fruitcake when it came to believing in The Great Beyond.

Harry Houdini - Wikipedia

Houdini chronicled his debunking exploits in his book, A Magician Among the Spirits, These activities cost Houdini the friendship of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Doyle, a firm believer in spiritualism during his later years, refused to believe any of Houdini's exposés. Doyle came to believe that Houdini was a powerful spiritualist medium, and had performed many of his stunts by means of paranormal abilities and was using these abilities to block those of other mediums that he was "debunking".[82] This disagreement led to the two men becoming public antagonists, and Sir Arthur came to view Houdini as a dangerous enemy.​

Or, maybe they were (and others are) being deceived by a clever entity?!

Entities - plural. There have always been people who will make a quick buck by exploiting others' hopes and fears. It isn't hard to learn how to become a "medium"...

Cold reading - Wikipedia

Cold reading is a set of techniques used by mentalists, psychics, fortune-tellers, mediums, illusionists (readers), and scam artists to imply that the reader knows much more about the person than the reader actually does.[1] Without prior knowledge, a practiced cold-reader can quickly obtain a great deal of information by analyzing the person's body language, age, clothing or fashion, hairstyle, gender, sexual orientation, religion, race or ethnicity, level of education, manner of speech, place of origin, etc. Cold readings commonly employ high-probability guesses, quickly picking up on signals as to whether their guesses are in the right direction or not, then emphasizing and reinforcing chance connections and quickly moving on from missed guesses. Psychologists believe that this appears to work because of the Forer effect and due to confirmation biases within people.​

There are just too many to ignore.

As P.T. Barnum once allegedly said.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Desperation. Indoctrination. Delusion. Hope.



A.C. Doyle was a fruitcake when it came to believing in The Great Beyond.

Harry Houdini - Wikipedia

Houdini chronicled his debunking exploits in his book, A Magician Among the Spirits, These activities cost Houdini the friendship of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Doyle, a firm believer in spiritualism during his later years, refused to believe any of Houdini's exposés. Doyle came to believe that Houdini was a powerful spiritualist medium, and had performed many of his stunts by means of paranormal abilities and was using these abilities to block those of other mediums that he was "debunking".[82] This disagreement led to the two men becoming public antagonists, and Sir Arthur came to view Houdini as a dangerous enemy.​

Entities - plural. There have always been people who will make a quick buck by exploiting others' hopes and fears. It isn't hard to learn how to become a "medium"...

Cold reading - Wikipedia

Cold reading is a set of techniques used by mentalists, psychics, fortune-tellers, mediums, illusionists (readers), and scam artists to imply that the reader knows much more about the person than the reader actually does.[1] Without prior knowledge, a practiced cold-reader can quickly obtain a great deal of information by analyzing the person's body language, age, clothing or fashion, hairstyle, gender, sexual orientation, religion, race or ethnicity, level of education, manner of speech, place of origin, etc. Cold readings commonly employ high-probability guesses, quickly picking up on signals as to whether their guesses are in the right direction or not, then emphasizing and reinforcing chance connections and quickly moving on from missed guesses. Psychologists believe that this appears to work because of the Forer effect and due to confirmation biases within people.​

As P.T. Barnum once allegedly said.

Scoff all you want, but there’s simply too many incidents! The people involved are not all suckers!

 

[Audie]

Scoff all you want, but there’s simply too many incidents! The people involved are not all suckers!

How many does it take to make critical mass? The so called incidents
are not credible until there are now many? Does it apply to bigfoot and
flying saucers? How about mermaids? Sightings are way down, but
they were spotted by some of C Columbus' men.

You creationists are big on saying that "truth is not a popularity contest",
except, maybe, when it is?

And of course they are not all suckers. Some are charlatans,
many are morally weak, others are simply insane.