Creationists: what prevents you from accepting ToE?

[painted wolf]

you've likely heard of the story of the bread that came down from the sky to feed the Isrealites in the desert ....how the food was supplied to such animals after the flood, i really cant say, but i know its well within Gods capability of providing food when no food is present.

Ah, so it's a miracle... then why bother with what is or isn't physically possible in the first place?
Why not just say that the two wolves just spontaneously had thousands of puppies in their first litter and they were of every canid species alive today?

with regard to new breeds of dogs, some dog breeds take a matter of a few years to develop by breeders... so im not sure what the issue is???

So, Noah and his family was intensively selectively breeding all those "dogs"?
How long do you think it took them to make foxes out of wolves?

wa:do

 

[fantome profane]

you've likely heard of the story of the bread that came down from the sky to feed the Isrealites in the desert ....how the food was supplied to such animals after the flood, i really cant say, but i know its well within Gods capability of providing food when no food is present.

Kibble from Heaven

 

[Krok]

Kibble from Heaven

But it is "science". Teach the controvercy!

 

[johnhanks]

i cant answer such questions im afraid. But im not going to discount the bible event because i dont know how sloths got to south america.

Of course you are not going to discount the bible event: observable facts can't possibly stand in the way of biblical truth, now, can they?

for all we know they might have been carried there on the backs of people who migrated in search of new lands. People have been breeding and raising all sorts of animals and moving them around with them as they migrated to new places.

And of course sloths are of such profound economic importance, it's natural that people would carry them on their backs as they migrated in search of new lands. (Without dropping any on their way from Palestine to South America, of course.)

Pegg has unwittingly crossed a border here: she has stretched biblical literalism beyond the cruelest parody.

 

[Debater Slayer]

i cant answer such questions im afraid. But im not going to discount the bible event because i dont know how sloths got to south america.

for all we know they might have been carried there on the backs of people who migrated in search of new lands. People have been breeding and raising all sorts of animals and moving them around with them as they migrated to new places.

I understand that your religion is important to you, but do you accept the Ark narrative as a miraculous occurrence, therefore making room for divine intervention in the processes that followed, or as a physical event that was carried out by a messenger of God (Noah) and that everything following it wasn't supernaturally influenced?

 

[johnhanks]

i cant answer such questions im afraid. But im not going to discount the bible event because i dont know how sloths got to south america.

You've ducked the other half of the question: how did Noah get hold of a breeding pair of sloths in the first place?

 

[johnhanks]

Ah, so it's a miracle... then why bother with what is or isn't physically possible in the first place?

Exactly. Why bother, in fact, with the ark, or even a physical flood? That would just be so much pointless grandstanding, if you can just keep all the favoured individuals alive with a miracle while you wish all the others out of existence. This, more than anything, is what earmarks the ark story as folk memory embellished into myth.

 

[shawn001]

"The navy didn't so much prove Plate Tectonics (at least in its current form) as they did disprove the then-theory of Continental Drift."

Yes they did and Continental Drift is alive and well. The navy mapping the ocean floors and also studies in the magnetism of rocks.

However so has Global Positioning satellites.

Measurement of tectonic plate movements
The amount of tectonic plate movement is measured using
Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites and a network of GPS receivers.
This technology allows scientists to measure plate movements as small as a
few millimeters per year.

Science On the Leading Edge | Measuring Plate Movements

So tell me Shermana, how did the Yellowstone super volcano form and has it erupted in the past?

You do know also that MT Saint helens erupted because of the pacific plate going under the North American contential plate.

I noticed Shermana skipped right over this, why do you think that is?

 

[shawn001]

I personally believe the Earth is about 12,000 years old (Comets are about the same), as for the Universe I am undecided if it's the same but so far leaning towards. Now do you have anything to comment on the Supernovas remnants?

12,000 years?


NASA RELEASES STUNNING IMAGES OF OUR INFANT UNIVERSE 2001

NASA today released the best "baby picture" of the Universe ever taken; the image contains such stunning detail that it may be one of the most important scientific results of recent years.

Scientists using NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP), during a sweeping 12-month observation of the entire sky, captured the new cosmic portrait, capturing the afterglow of the big bang, called the cosmic microwave background.

"We've captured the infant universe in sharp focus, and from this portrait we can now describe the universe with unprecedented accuracy," said Dr. Charles L. Bennett of the Goddard Space Flight Center (GSFC), Greenbelt Md., and the WMAP Principal Investigator. "The data are solid, a real gold mine," he said.

One of the biggest surprises revealed in the data is the first generation of stars to shine in the universe first ignited only 200 million years after the big bang, much earlier than many scientists had expected.

In addition, the new portrait precisely pegs the age of the universe at 13.7 billion years old, with a remarkably small one percent margin of error.

The WMAP team found that the big bang and Inflation theories continue to ring true. The contents of the universe include 4 percent atoms (ordinary matter), 23 percent of an unknown type of dark matter, and 73 percent of a mysterious dark energy. The new measurements even shed light on the nature of the dark energy, which acts as a sort of an anti-gravity.

"These numbers represent a milestone in how we view our universe," said Dr. Anne Kinney, NASA director for astronomy and physics. "This is a true turning point for cosmology."

The light we see today, as the cosmic microwave background, has traveled over 13 billion years to reach us. Within this light are infinitesimal patterns that mark the seeds of what later grew into clusters of galaxies and the vast structure we see all around us.

Patterns in the big bang afterglow were frozen in place only 380,000 years after the big bang, a number nailed down by this latest observation. These patterns are tiny temperature differences within this extraordinarily evenly dispersed microwave light bathing the universe, which now averages a frigid 2.73 degrees above absolute zero temperature. WMAP resolves slight temperature fluctuations, which vary by only millionths of a degree.

Theories about the evolution of the universe make specific predictions about the extent of these temperature patterns. Like a detective, the WMAP team compared the unique "fingerprint" of patterns imprinted on this ancient light with fingerprints predicted by various cosmic theories and found a match.

WMAP 1 Year Mission Results Press Release

1. WMAP definitively determined the age of the universe to be 13.73 billion years old to within 1% (0.12 billion years) -as recognized in the Guinness Book of World Records!

WMAP 1 Year Mission Results Press Release


This light comes to us from every direction.

Those red spots are where the stars and galaxies first evolved from.

 

[shawn001]

i have no problem with that, and there is nothing wrong about what i said. my point stands.



that is your belief, the ToE can be broken at any time with new discoveries, it is a work in progress, at one point you may find something in support of it and in another point in time when our technology will be more advanced it will get broken/disproved.

"ToE can be broken at any time with new discoveries"

No it won't because you don't know how much science supports it.

the point where you and i make no sense to one another and disagree on many things is when you mention the word 'Evolution' no evolution has taken place. little changes have and do occur however not big changes like what ToE says. moreover, we are more related to clay/earth than we are to apes. potatoes have a closer number of chromosomes to humans than apes.

"'Evolution' no evolution has taken place"

Look at the post above this with the CMB, when you understand that you will understand everything in the universe evolved, we can go back before matter existed and before stars or galaxies. I pointed out those metals evolved and the solar system evolved.

Its also chromosomes #2 that shows are connect to evolution and the great apes, not to mention the entire earth's history, from the formation of the moon and earth to us right now.

So I will ask you eselam, where did the moon come from? Why are there so many craters on it YOU CAN SEE? Why so many craters on all the rock planets?

 

[Shermana]

I know this is not addressed to me, but it's so juicy! It's just so amazing how people can deny reality.

What you call "reality" is not necessarily "reality" but theories attempting to pass as such.

What you personally believe won't change reality

Same to you.

. We can actually see some of the larger comets lurking in the Kuiper Belt!

And what proves they are billions of years old? I've looked into this issue. Explain.

We took photo's! Billions of years old.

Explain why they are billions.

What you decide or not won't change reality.

Theory does not make reality. Explain why they are billions of years old.

What about them? Do you have any point? They occur all over, and the better our technology develops, the more of them we see!

We should already see them with what's available. Nice try.

Oh, and Shermana, what do you think comets and supernova have to do with the ToE?

If you actually bothered reading, it was addressed to a tangent about the age of the universe. Try actually following. Nice try.

My guess is that it's because you don't know that the ToE deals with biology, not cosmology?

My guess is that you didn't actually read the conversation and are tripping over yourself to make smears.

To you a "scientist" is a "scientist" is a "scientist".

A "scientist" is a human being with an agenda, whatever that agenda may be.

In the real world it's different

I understand this. In the real world, you should bother reading the actual conversation to see where the tangent comes from.

.Cosmology does not deal with the ToE at all.

It can in some ways, such as Stellar evolution. But you really should consider reading where the conversation is starting from before tripping over yourself.

Cosmologists would know nothing about the ToE. Why don't you stay on the subject?[

Why don't you read where the conversation came from? Do you think I was the one who brought it up? Did you not notice that what I said were responses? Seriously? Did you think I decided to go off on that tangent in the first place? Looks like it. Try slowing down, read WHY I said what I said, and say the same thing to the person who made such claims to begin with of which I replied to. Kapiesce?

 

[Shermana]

Yes they did and Continental Drift is alive and well. The navy mapping the ocean floors and also studies in the magnetism of rocks.

Well NASA disagrees with you. "Continental Drift" in its form by Wegener was disproved. Also, I am not going against Plate Tectonics altogether, but suggesting that they are only part of the equation of which the new "Whole Earth Decompression" theory comprises.

Although Wegener's "continental drift" theory was later disproved, it was one of the first times that the idea of crustal movement had been introduced to the scientific community; and it laid the groundwork for the development of modern plate tectonics. As years passed, more and more evidence was uncovered to support the idea that the plates move constantly over geologic time.

History of plate tectonics

However so has Global Positioning satellites.

Measurement of tectonic plate movements
The amount of tectonic plate movement is measured using
Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites and a network of GPS receivers.
This technology allows scientists to measure plate movements as small as a
few millimeters per year.

And I don't see how that disproves Whole Earth decompression Theory, or accounts for the problems in PT as a whole.

Science On the Leading Edge | Measuring Plate Movements

So tell me Shermana, how did the Yellowstone super volcano form and has it erupted in the past?

You do know also that MT Saint helens erupted because of the pacific plate going under the North American contential plate.

Did you understand at all why I brought up Whole Earth decompression Theory? Apparently not. There's also the issue of Mantle Plumes altogether:

http://www.mantleplumes.org/

 

[Pegg]

Pegg has unwittingly crossed a border here: she has stretched biblical literalism beyond the cruelest parody.

i just dont think that all possible scenarios should be discounted. Sloths are there so they obviously got there somehow. The animal may have walked themselves there, but the most likely scenario is that they were taken there by people migrating.

 

[Pegg]

You've ducked the other half of the question: how did Noah get hold of a breeding pair of sloths in the first place?

the scritpures say that the animals "kept going to Noah inside the ark, two by two"

So Noah didnt have to go looking for animals...they came into the ark at Gods direction.

 

[terryboy]

the scritpures say that the animals "kept going to Noah inside the ark, two by two"

So Noah didnt have to go looking for animals...they came into the ark at Gods direction.

So the sloths swam all the way from South America to Middle East?

 

[Shermana]

So the sloths swam all the way from South America to Middle East?

Genesis 6 takes place before Peleg, when the "Earth was divided".

I.e. pangea.

Which also explains the 4 rivers of the garden intersecting, probably around where Yemen's coast is today.

 

[Pegg]

So the sloths swam all the way from South America to Middle East?

why is it impossible that the sloths existed in the same land where all the humans existed?

All the animals God created existed in the garden of Eden....that is why the story explains that Adam was giving a name to all the animals.

 

[Pegg]

Genesis 6 takes place before Peleg, when the "Earth was divided".

I.e. pangea.

Which also explains the 4 rivers of the garden intersecting, probably around where Yemen's coast is today.

Yes i agree with the idea that the earth may still have been one piece of land at that time.... that would explain how all the animals could have come to the ark. And with the sheer weight of the great flood waters, a lot of movement of the crust would have occurred...the weight of the water itself causing great depressions in the oceans and breaking apart the lands. And there is the evidence of low lying river beds which extend out far into the oceans, so there was far less water on earth before the flood then there is now.

 

[terryboy]

Genesis 6 takes place before Peleg, when the "Earth was divided".

I.e. pangea.

Which also explains the 4 rivers of the garden intersecting, probably around where Yemen's coast is today.

Prove to us Pangea existed 12000 years ago and not 200 million years ago.

 

[terryboy]

Yes i agree with the idea that the earth may still have been one piece of land at that time.... that would explain how all the animals could have come to the ark. And with the sheer weight of the great flood waters, a lot of movement of the crust would have occurred...the weight of the water itself causing great depressions in the oceans and breaking apart the lands. And there is the evidence of low lying river beds which extend out far into the oceans, so there was far less water on earth before the flood then there is now.

Then you'd have another problem, how did the kangaroos landed in Australia?