Critical Race Theory?

[Epic Beard Man]

@Epic Beard Man - After all of that lengthy response, you didn't address the one question I posed:

If a person doesn't have some understanding of philosophy, how would you hope to discuss the old "sins of the father" question?

You don't need to study philosophy for that.

 

[Kooky]

A lot of unsubstantiated claims were made in that video.

As I understand it, a study was done in which grade school kids were taught a semester of philosophy. They then tracked their progress in later school years, and that one semester of kid-appropriate philosophy helped them be better students even years later.

So it seems to me that for CRT to NOT be divisive, students would need some basic grounding in philosophy first. For example questions like "sins of the father" are not easy to grapple with.

A lot of unsubstantiated claims in that post. Perhaps you could enumerate the claims you disagree with, in order to provide a platform to actually discuss this in a substantial way? Because I can already see, by your "sins of the father" comment, that you seem to have taken away a very different idea of what CRT is supposed to be than what has been argued by people educated in the subject.

 

[icehorse]

A lot of unsubstantiated claims in that post. Perhaps you could enumerate the claims you disagree with, in order to provide a platform to actually discuss this in a substantial way? Because I can already see, by your "sins of the father" comment, that you seem to have taken away a very different idea of what CRT is supposed to be than what has been argued by people educated in the subject.

This is a sincere request: If you know of a source that accurately summarizes what people educated in the subject agree on, I think it would be useful for everyone.

 

[icehorse]

You don't need to study philosophy for that.

I suppose it's not strictly necessary, but it would help. The question - ought to - quickly get into morals and ethics and logical trains of thought. All of which are covered in philosophy.

 

[Kooky]

This is a sincere request: If you know of a source that accurately summarizes what people educated in the subject agree on, I think it would be useful for everyone.

You already challenged what people who are educated in the subject have said as inaccurate and wrong.
Clearly, you are already far more knowledgeable on CRT than anybody actually qualified to talk about it, so anything I could provide would only pale as an inaccurate and possibly wrong-headed reflection of falsehoods.

 

[icehorse]

You already challenged what people who are educated in the subject have said as inaccurate and wrong.
Clearly, you are already far more knowledgeable on CRT than anybody actually qualified to talk about it, so anything I could provide would only pale as an inaccurate and possibly wrong-headed reflection of falsehoods.

nice dodge.

and btw, what i said was that they made unsubstantiated claims. they might well be able to provide citations, they simply didn't. that's not the same thing as being wrong.

 

[Kooky]

nice dodge.

Your alleged ignorance did not stop you from having an opinion on the issue that you have pontificated about at length in this thread you created, so forgive me for not taking seriously your protestations that you haven't made up your mind already.

 

[icehorse]

Your alleged ignorance did not stop you from having an opinion on the issue that you have pontificated about at length in this thread you created, so forgive me for not taking seriously your protestations that you haven't made up your mind already.

You talking to me? when did I pontificate?

OTOH, YOU just made a claim that implied some solid understanding of CRT. I'm not questioning that. I sincerely asked you for a source (a link would be fine.)

There have beeb claims made in this thread that some people are exaggerating or misquoting in some way what CRT really means. That's probably true, so I'm genuinely interested in knowing what the experts agree CRT really is.

My suspicion is that you just like to take pot shots, and that you don't really know either

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I suppose it's not strictly necessary, but it would help. The question - ought to - quickly get into morals and ethics and logical trains of thought. All of which are covered in philosophy.

I fail to understand how this relates to CRT considering that it is a graduate-level subject simply taking a course in philosophy does not necessitate an ability to understand the subject. There are people who do not take philosophy in undergrad and still do fine in courses such as Critical Race Theory.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

A lot of unsubstantiated claims in that post. Perhaps you could enumerate the claims you disagree with, in order to provide a platform to actually discuss this in a substantial way? Because I can already see, by your "sins of the father" comment, that you seem to have taken away a very different idea of what CRT is supposed to be than what has been argued by people educated in the subject.

I'm clearly not suitable for this subject despite me taking the course in graduate school.

 

[icehorse]

I'm clearly not suitable for this subject despite me taking the course in graduate school.

I made a sincere request of @Kooky , but he appears to have demured. I'll make the same sincere request of you. Can you point us to an article or whatever that - in your opinion - is a well regarded summary of what CRT really is? In other words, is there any sort of consensus about what CRT is and what it is NOT?

thanks!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I made a sincere request of @Kooky , but he appears to have demured. I'll make the same sincere request of you. Can you point us to an article or whatever that - in your opinion - is a well regarded summary of what CRT really is? In other words, is there any sort of consensus about what CRT is and what it is NOT?

thanks!

I posted two videos that clearly explained what CRT is. You dismissed one video as "lacking" even though it was clear and concise and now you want me to do what, give you a research article?

 

[icehorse]

I posted two videos that clearly explained what CRT is. You dismissed one video as "lacking" even though it was clear and concise and now you want me to do what, give you a research article?

I just watched those videos (again), and a 3rd video recently posted on this thread. Most of the time is spent demonstrating instances of racism. Doh!

But where is the definition of CRT? A couple of times the word "framework" was used, very ambiguously and open-endedly.

So here we are #212 posts later and it strikes me everyone has been shadow-boxing against this nebulous thing called CRT.

I think we'd all benefit with a nice, precise, unambiguous description of what CRT is. And I'll say it again, such a description is NOT anywhere to be found in those videos. There are hints, but nothing really solid.

 

[Kooky]

I just watched those videos (again), and a 3rd video recently posted on this thread. Most of the time is spent demonstrating instances of racism. Doh!

I know right, it's almost as if Critical Race Theory primarily concerns itself with instances of racism.

 

[Kooky]

So here we are #212 posts later and it strikes me everyone has been shadow-boxing against this nebulous thing called CRT.

I think we'd all benefit with a nice, precise, unambiguous description of what CRT is. And I'll say it again, such a description is NOT anywhere to be found in those videos. There are hints, but nothing really solid.

Most academic fields don't have universally accepted, academically sourced definitions, you know. Philosophy, Physics, Chemistry, Literature Theory, even more narrow theoretical conscructs such as Marxist Theory, Feminist Theory, Critical Theory, Game Theory or Great Man/Author Theory cannot be clearly delineated by those kinds of definitions, because they are fundamentally descriptive and often post-hoc terms assigned to a disparate groups of academics in a variety of fields grouped together because they happen to use similar methodological or theoretical approaches to their subjects of choice.

Your insistence on a singular definition spoonfed by some outside source is, frankly, unreasonable and completely out of touch with how these terms come into being and how they are being used in academic practice. It also comes about 212 posts too late.

 

[icehorse]

I know right, it's almost as if Critical Race Theory primarily concerns itself with instances of racism.

Actually, one aspect that does seem clear is that it's NOT primarily about instances of racism. It's more about "structural and systemic" racism. I brought it up BECAUSE the videos offered seem themselves to be unclear on the concept.

 

[icehorse]

Your insistence on a singular definition spoonfed by some outside source is, frankly, unreasonable and completely out of touch with how these terms come into being and how they are being used in academic practice. It also comes about 212 posts too late.

What's your problem dude, what's got your knickers in such a twist?

 

[Kooky]

What's your problem dude, what's got your knickers in such a twist?

Is that the only part of my post you actually read?


By the way, you could have read several articles on CRT, starting with the Wikipedia article, in the time it took you to make sassy comments over an issue you yourself admitted you are ignorant about.

 

[Kooky]

Actually, one aspect that does seem clear is that it's NOT primarily about instances of racism. It's more about "structural and systemic" racism. I brought it up BECAUSE the videos offered seem themselves to be unclear on the concept.

The video has been pretty clear on the definition of racism CRT operates under, and explicitly spells it out within the first few minutes.

 

[Yerda]

BTW for those of you who don't know, CRT is not taught in schools. It is only taught at the graduate and doctorate level as said per video it is only for graduate and doctoral students. When I got my Masters in Social Work, we studied CRT I highly doubt some kid in high school would understand the key concepts of CRT

For the most part, when they say they oppose CRT they mean they oppose any discussion of why minorities might face disadvantages in legal, economic, civic matters. CRT is just a useful expression for these festering anuses to work themselves into a frothy moral panic.