Critical Thinkers vs God

[PinSeeker]

"Can critical thinking and belief in God coexist?"​

All it takes to engage in critical thinking is some moderate degree of intelligence, really.

There are a great many intelligent and even highly intelligent people -- with highly developed critical thinking skills -- both past and present, who do believe in God and have arrived at that conclusion through critical thinking Likewise, there are a great many intelligent and even highly intelligent people -- with highly developed critical thinking skills -- both past and present, who do not believe in God and have arrived at that conclusion through critical thinking.

Viewed in any context (scientific or otherwise) and from any perspective; people are intelligent and have the ability to think critically, regardless of whether they believe in God or not, and even to arrive at a decision regarding belief or unbelief in God through critical thinking. So in that respect, at least, the question itself (but not the person posing it, of course) is a bit ridiculous.

Belief in God and pursuit of scientific knowledge are not pitted against each other and therefore not mutually exclusive endeavors, though some are inclined to frame it that way.

The real question is, "What one's critical thinking guided by?" or, Scripturally speaking, "Whose understanding is one leaning upon (Proverbs 3:5-6) in his/her critical thinking?"

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm not sure where you got the conclusion that belief stems from desire.

When it comes to religion it's very clear that belief stems from childhood indoctrination.

By and large...
Sunnis produce Sunnis. Methodists produce Methodists. Catholics produce Catholics.

Later on, desire may play a part, but the origins can be traced to very early childhood.

A child often desires to please their parent or teacher or friends and so on. Its not religious indoctrination until doctrine is introduced as something desirable to believe in. Desire is an underlying wheel in the thing.

Indoctrination is something done to political enemies in which you break them down into children eager to please you. Its an evil thing. Parenthood is not evil. Usually. My opinion.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It an article from a few years back, when "critical thinking" was in vogue. Don't know what happen to that, been a while since I've heard the term.

However, I suspect one chooses to apply "critical thinking" selectively. Those who want to continue to believe is God selectively don't apply it simply accepting their belief for what it is without analysis.

The need to avoid the application of critical thinking would mean that their belief in God wouldn't stand up if applied.

I feel that critical/analytical thinking has taking over my worldview such that even if I had a strong desire to believe in God, I couldn't

Certainly a scientist can compartmentalize their critical thinking such that they can do rational critical analysis in science, and set aside this same rational analysis with regard to their belief.

I haven't found anything more recent that would address the points you've made.

There is an old joke people tell of being proud of being humble.

You have decided that you are a critical thinker on the basis of putting effort into critical thinking. That is reasonable and admirable for you as an individual, but what's Ok on an individual level is dangerous on a societal level. When a society decides it has become objective that is trouble. That is when to get a visa and leave while you still can. Unfortunately every place is like this so that there isn't anywhere to go to.

 

[1213]

Can critical thinking and belief in God coexist?​

I think critical thinking will lead person to God. It can be possible to believe in God, without critical thinking, but I don’t think anyone who is truly critical can say "God does not exist".

But, I would like to hear, was for example Newton critical thinker?

 

[firedragon]

The results might help explain why scientists are among the least religious. According to a 2009 Pew poll, only about half of scientists believe in God or a higher deity, compared to more than 80 percent of the general public.
"The results don't speak directly to it, but it could explain why people who receive extensive training in fields that require deep analytic thinking might tend to be among the least religious," he says.
Although critical analysis of life's origins might be one thing that convinces atheists to lack faith in God, Gervais says there are many other reasons that need to be explored.
https://www.usnews.com/news/article...itical-thinkers-less-likely-to-believe-in-god

Can critical thinking and belief in God coexist?

​

I think critical thinkers would believe in God. Most of these so called "critical thinkers" are more in love with the term and calling themselves that than walking the talk or the walk.

"The results don't speak directly to it, but it could explain why people who receive extensive training in fields that require deep analytic thinking might tend to be among the least religious," he says.

Thats a correlation, not causation, and any researcher knows that, unless one is intending something else. So a critical thinker like you should be critical of this analysis.

Let me tell you directly. Critical thinkers believe in God. And that is my personal understanding, not an assumption well researched and generalised to population.

 

[Nakosis]

I think critical thinking will lead person to God. It can be possible to believe in God, without critical thinking, but I don’t think anyone who is truly critical can say "God does not exist".

But, I would like to hear, was for example Newton critical thinker?

Newton was basically a heretic. Not a atheist but certainly critical about many popular beliefs about God. He did not believe in the divinity of Jesus for example.

 

[firedragon]

Newton was basically a heretic. Not a atheist but certainly critical about many popular beliefs about God. He did not believe in the divinity of Jesus for example.

Nakosis. With all due respect,

1. who told you that Newton didnt believe in the divinity of Jesus?
2. and lets say hypothetically Newton didnt believe Jesus was a divine entity, how would that be relevant when even then, he is still a theist believing in God?

 

[Altfish]

I think critical thinking will lead person to God. It can be possible to believe in God, without critical thinking, but I don’t think anyone who is truly critical can say "God does not exist".

For me, critical thinking lead me away from god. Mainly because many of the things that god had allegedly done were better explained by science

But, I would like to hear, was for example Newton critical thinker?

Not sure what you mean by this??? Newton was a brilliant mathematician but also an alchemist, his religious views were all over the place

 

[PureX]

It isn't critical thinking and "belief in God" that doesn't coexist. It's critical thinking and "belief", period.

A critical thinker will understand that "belief" is not only unnecessary, but can be quite counter-productive. As it's a built-in bias in favor of whatever one is currently thinking about the nature of existence that our egos will automatically try to defend regardless of it's limitations. And that can make learning new ways of understanding the world, difficult.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Can critical thinking and belief in God coexist?

Yes.

But it’s probably unlikely that critical thinking and religion can coexist.

I learned early on (back when I attempted to participate in religion) that you DO NOT question their doctrines or their beliefs.

 

[Nakosis]

I think critical thinkers would believe in God. Most of these so called "critical thinkers" are more in love with the term and calling themselves that than walking the talk or the walk.



Thats a correlation, not causation, and any researcher knows that, unless one is intending something else. So a critical thinker like you should be critical of this analysis.

Let me tell you directly. Critical thinkers believe in God. And that is my personal understanding, not an assumption well researched and generalised to population.

To be fair "critical thinking" was a term toss about a several years ago to criticize the mistakes of others. Not even sure back then those using the term put much thought into what it meant.

One point I felt important was that the ability to formulate a concise question was more important than coming up with a concise answer. Does a belief in God stifle one's ability to question the universe. Does one reach the final answer "God" and stop looking?

Perhaps the desire to continue to question the mechanics of the universe forces one to set aside God as the answer.

 

[firedragon]

The point is that the percentage goes down from 80% in the general population, which indicates that training in analytic thinking makes a difference.

Which means, after all the training, of selected people who come into this field knowing the naturalism applied in science, half of them are moving towards believing in God. That means science leads people to God.

When Einstein began his journey, he believed in a static universe, and he was in the majority in the world. The minority of the minority was with the expanding universe idea. It was only later that Einstein adopted the idea, and it was even later that the majority adopted the idea.

Being a minority, or 50% of the population does not mean they are not critical thinkers. If there was 10% of scientists that are theists, then still one could assume that they are the most critical thinkers.

This is why you should be critical in your thinking, not bias.

 

[firedragon]

To be fair "critical thinking" was a term toss about a several years ago to criticize the mistakes of others. Not even sure back then those using the term put much thought into what it meant.

One point I felt important was that the ability to formulate a concise question was more important than coming up with a concise answer. Does a belief in God stifle one's ability to question the universe. Does one reach the final answer "God" and stop looking?

Perhaps the desire to continue to question the mechanics of the universe forces one to set aside God as the answer.

That is your assumption based on nothing but an infinite regression of assumptions. Theists believe that the most critical thinkers come back to God. They feel there is no choice. But again, that is not a tested hypothesis.

There is no indication from any research that anyones belief in God hinders their critical thinking. Unless you can prove via good research of individuals and their psychoanalysis and good qualitative studies, not correlatory statistics.

 

[Nakosis]

It isn't critical thinking and "belief in God" that doesn't coexist. It's critical thinking and "belief", period.

A critical thinker will understand that "belief" is not only unnecessary, but can be quite counter-productive. As it's a built-in bias in favor of whatever one is currently thinking about the nature of existence that our egos will automatically try to defend regardless of it's limitations. And that can make learning new ways of understanding the world, difficult.

It is a question, is belief necessary... Not sure everyone will agree.
In the beginning, from a place of ignorance belief is certainly necessary. Eventually though, our initial beliefs find rational support or they do not. Should a belief one can not rationally support be held onto?

I think not, but what one sees as rational varies amongst friends.

 

[Nakosis]

That is your assumption based on nothing but an infinite regression of assumptions. Theists believe that the most critical thinkers come back to God. They feel there is no choice. But again, that is not a tested hypothesis.

There is no indication from any research that anyones belief in God hinders their critical thinking. Unless you can prove via good research of individuals and their psychoanalysis and good qualitative studies, not correlatory statistics.

Ok, do you have a counter explanation of why a higher percentage of scientists don't believe in a God?

 

[sun rise]

Can critical thinking and belief in God coexist?

yes

If we were to define god as "the creator of the universe as we can currently observe it", it would be quite possible to believe that AND be a critical thinker, and keep religion completely out of the conversation

Completely? Well, no. But uncritically swallowing all doctrine of a religion - yes that needs to be replaced by critical thinking. This is nothing new as this from over 1000 years ago indicates (faith here is adherence to religion, belief here is belief in the Divine without the veil of conventional religion):

To those who seek truth in conventionalized religion:
Until college and minaret have crumbled
This holy work of ours will not be done.
Until faith becomes rejection
And rejection becomes belief
There will be no true believer.
Abu Sa’id Ibn Abi’l Khayr (967 – 1049)​

Certainly a scientist can compartmentalize their critical thinking such that they can do rational critical analysis in science, and set aside this same rational analysis with regard to their belief.

Given my degrees in chemistry and psychology, I can classify myself as science trained. You basically denied my personal experience where my intellect went down many paths such as "if God exists and is all loving, there must be a rational explanation for children suffering".

For a believer to ignore or reject the intellect and thus critical thinking is like trying to stand on one leg. And further it can lead to fanaticism.

 

[Nakosis]

Yes.

But it’s probably unlikely that critical thinking and religion can coexist.

I learned early on (back when I attempted to participate in religion) that you DO NOT question their doctrines or their beliefs.

In a God without religion, what is your concept of God based on?

 

[firedragon]

Ok, do you have a counter explanation of why a higher percentage of scientists don't believe in a God?

A counter explanation? Well, one can make assumptions just like what you presented.

50% of those who are in the science field believe in God. That means a field that by default requires you to have naturalism as a methodology has 50% God believers. This will never happen in a church where you are required to have God belief as default. Almost 100% could be assumed theists in a church. Thus, science, drives you to believe in God even though methodologically you are supposed to have naturalism.

Thats one assumption.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The results might help explain why scientists are among the least religious. According to a 2009 Pew poll, only about half of scientists believe in God or a higher deity, compared to more than 80 percent of the general public.
"The results don't speak directly to it, but it could explain why people who receive extensive training in fields that require deep analytic thinking might tend to be among the least religious," he says.
Although critical analysis of life's origins might be one thing that convinces atheists to lack faith in God, Gervais says there are many other reasons that need to be explored.
https://www.usnews.com/news/article...itical-thinkers-less-likely-to-believe-in-god

Can critical thinking and belief in God coexist?

​

I quite honestly do not think that true critical thinking can ever support belief in a deity, and certainly not any deity described in the world's largest religions (the Abrahamic ones and Hinduism). We'll leave Buddhism, since while there may be some belief in "supernatural" aid, a deity doesn't seem to be part of that system's beliefs.

Look, critical thinking, if it requires anything at all, requires that there be a reason for holding any proposition. And if there is no reason (other than not having any other explanation) to suppose the existence of a deity, then the very maximum that can be concluded is "I don't know." And in a total absence of reasons for accepting the proposition, a better answer is "I don't think so," for the simple reason that everything that we know anything about leaves some trace that we can examine.

And that trace cannot be hear-say.

 

[Nakosis]

Nakosis. With all due respect,

1. who told you that Newton didnt believe in the divinity of Jesus?

I suppose that would be John Rogers:
Scholars now consider him a Nontrinitarian Arian. In 2019, John Rogers stated, "Heretics both, John Milton and Isaac Newton were, as most scholars now agree, Arians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton
From what I have read, many papers written by Newton were not published after his death for fear he would be seen as a heretic.

2. and lets say hypothetically Newton didnt believe Jesus was a divine entity, how would that be relevant when even then, he is still a theist believing in God?

Having dismissed one God via critical thinking it would seem likely to lead the dismissal of other Gods. The beginning of a pattern or at least the potential for one.