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Critical Thinkers vs God

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Boyle-Folly-of-Atheism-1692-title-page-Cropped.jpg
The results might help explain why scientists are among the least religious. According to a 2009 Pew poll, only about half of scientists believe in God or a higher deity, compared to more than 80 percent of the general public.
"The results don't speak directly to it, but it could explain why people who receive extensive training in fields that require deep analytic thinking might tend to be among the least religious," he says.
Although critical analysis of life's origins might be one thing that convinces atheists to lack faith in God, Gervais says there are many other reasons that need to be explored.
https://www.usnews.com/news/article...itical-thinkers-less-likely-to-believe-in-god


Can critical thinking and belief in God coexist?

Characteristics-Critical-Thinking.png





WE all already know God whether we realize we know God or not. I have to believe if one is really true to oneself that deep down one knows God exists. On the other hand, If one basis God on the beliefs that religions supply, those with greater reason and analytical, critical thinking soon discover so much of those religious beliefs simply do not add up. If the Math does not add up, how can the belief be the truth? It can't!! Intelligence can never ignore the Math!!

As mankind grows in knowledge and intelligence, those flaws in religion's beliefs will become more and more visible. Since religion will not search for new knowledge and correct the errors, religion will become obsolete at some point. Worry not. Mankind has a long way to go.

God will be found for even if no one sees it, science is walking straight toward God. Yes, there is a long way to go. On the other hand, given enough time, there is no limit one can travel even taking baby steps.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
Religious indoctrination of children is done out of a desire to have children worship the same deities in the same ways as the parents worship.

Not only that. Religious ‘indoctrination’ can also connect them to the values and traditions of their ancestors, strengthen the family, empower these children as individuals, give them a constant source of motivation and inspiration, and teach them discipline, among other things.

Obviously this is not everyone’s experience, but more characteristic of those whose religious parents genuinely love their children and want the best for them.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Can critical thinking and belief in God coexist?
1) 50% of the scientists believe in "God"
2) The men of Wisdom (from the East) have been declaring since ages that "God" is 'beyond mind', hence naturally 'critical minds' will never figure out this' God mystery'

Note:
1) "God" quoted, does not imply 'Christian God' with human like features
2) Indian Saints and Sages (very Wise men) have declared "God" exists
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If science just a human thinking quoting how and why a human should believe a human teaching says I can critique by thinking.

Then consciousness is what humans explain is why.

Science said the form pre ceding creation existed.

If you just think upon any history the thought itself is not real.

It is imposed. Motivation self presence places the imposition upon the thinker.

So you then are caused to question yourself why do you think you can ascertain or own for a human machine practice a status you only think upon.

Is how human spirit teachings in science discussed that it is unobtainable.

The relative critique was for human safety as human egotism proves it exhibits human self destructive behaviours that are dangerous.

What human self spirituality as statements about human behaviour are imposed for in human living conditions relating self life continuance and planetary presence.

One human one statement. So I must then reference another humans teachings Stephen Hawking.

Human behaviour.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
I feel that critical/analytical thinking has taking over my worldview such that even if I had a strong desire to believe in God, I couldn't
Makes perfect sense to me; I do not imply it's leading to Wisdom though (as long as holding on to critical thinking)
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Some scientists secretly believe in God or would believe in God if not for the fact that there is the stigma that you aren't a good scientist if you believe in God or even that you're stupid. It's peer pressure.
Nonsense. No such stigma exists.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
y

Unless they lack "critical" thinking

"To think or not to think"

"critical" indeed

Are you actually positing that the majority of scientists lack critical thinking skills?
Or are you playing with words and definitions in order to make some sort of point?
I have an education background, so I tend to think of critical thinking in very pragmatic and achievable terms, not philosophical or ethereal ones.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Are you actually positing that the majority of scientists lack critical thinking skills?
No

But the OP could be read to imply this in respect to people who believe in God. But I choose to interpret it the other way

Or are you playing with words and definitions in order to make some sort of point?
No and Yes and No and Yes ... 4 points

No, not "playing", serious as usual
Yes, "playing with words"
No, not "playing with definitions"
Yes, "making a few points"
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
I have an education background, so I tend to think of critical thinking in very pragmatic and achievable terms, not philosophical or ethereal ones
I have an education background in science as well as in Spirituality, and the key difference I found in the word "thinking".

Science solves material challenges by using "thinking", whereas Spirituality deals with the other challenges. Science works below the mind, whereas Spirituality works beyond the mind to get to it's goal.

Below/beyond meaning that they use different parts of "thinking"; Science usually thrives on more thinking, whereas Spirituality usually thrives on less thinking.

IF one insists using "more thinking" and refuse using "less thinking" (also described as concentration, contemplation and meditation process), while trying to understand God (and related subjects) I wish them luck, and they need it, lots of it, because all Masters I know, declared that it is a sure way to fail getting there any time soon. But even when walking the prescribed path, very few reach the end. Heart work is hard work.

I use the prescribed method by Science Masters when solving Scientific challenges, and in a similar way I use the prescribed method by Spiritual Masters to solve Spiritual challenges

This makes most sense, don't you think so?
@stvdvRF
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Can critical thinking and "disbelief" in "God" coexist?

Haven't decided.
IF 'Yup' THEN how do you define "critical thinking"
In a nutshell, the discipline to question answers

IF 'Nop' THEN how come Atheists lack critical thinking?
Anyone can lack critical thinking if they've stopped questioning what the truth is.
It generally means they become satisfied with the answers they already have.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
No

But the OP could be read to imply this in respect to people who believe in God. But I choose to interpret it the other way


No and Yes and No and Yes ... 4 points

No, not "playing", serious as usual
Yes, "playing with words"
No, not "playing with definitions"
Yes, "making a few points"

Meh. I already responded to the OP by stating that it seems pretty absurd to suggest 50% of scientists are theists, and also suggest this means theists lack critical thinking skills.
I merely reiterated that to you in reverse. It appears to me pretty damn obvious that both theists and atheists can have critical thinking skills. And that atheists and theists can LACK critical thinking skills, depending on the individual.

I'm not a fan of tribalism.

In any case, if your point was that theists can be critical thinkers, I have no reason to disagree.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I have an education background in science as well as in Spirituality, and the key difference I found in the word "thinking".

Science solves material challenges by using "thinking", whereas Spirituality deals with the other challenges. Science works below the mind, whereas Spirituality works beyond the mind to get to it's goal.

Hmm...I wasn't offering my background to support my point. Moreso to illustrate why I think about critical thinking in the manner I do. It's a learnable skill, basically.
I've got a Bachelor of Teaching (with honours...which makes you wonder about the other muppets in the course...), a Bachelor of Education, have lectured, etc. All these things were of interest to me precisely BECAUSE I see critical thinking as a skill that can be taught and learnt. Never crossed my mind through all that time to think about learners as 'theists' or 'atheists'. Just individuals at different points on a learning journey.

Below/beyond meaning that they use different parts of "thinking"; Science usually thrives on more thinking, whereas Spirituality usually thrives on less thinking.

I don't see it that way. You're drawing a hard line between thinking and non-thinking, and making it a binary choice. There are all sorts of biases people hold which means their thinking is impacted. If you see 'concentration' or 'contemplation' as non-thinking, we're probably going to talk past each other. Instead, if we HAVE to draw binary lines for descriptive purposes, I would suggest that science is procedural thinking, with identified start and end points, and understood objectives. Contemplation is much more free-form thinking, and doesn't have the same requirements or aims...indeed, it doesn't even have consistent requirements and aims. I don't see how that makes it 'non-thought' though.

IF one insists using "more thinking" and refuse using "less thinking" (also described as concentration, contemplation and meditation process), while trying to understand God (and related subjects) I wish them luck, and they need it, lots of it, because all Masters I know, declared that it is a sure way to fail getting there any time soon. But even when walking the prescribed path, very few reach the end. Heart work is hard work.

I've suggested this before, but I think the internet (in particular) can give atheists and theists almost comedically cartoonish views of each other. Atheists aren't all rationality and science and cool, emotionless thought. They're people, some of whom turn them selves into knots by thinking they're more evolved because science, whilst ignoring what science would actually suggest about that. Equally, theists aren't all spirituality and love. They're people, some of whom justify all sorts of behaviour or dehumanisation of others by appealing to a God they've never met...ahem...


I use the prescribed method by Science Masters when solving Scientific challenges, and in a similar way I use the prescribed method by Spiritual Masters to solve Spiritual challenges

This makes most sense, don't you think so?
@stvdvRF

I do indeed. I describe myself as a methodological naturalist, and there is absolutely no reason even a verdant theist can't be the same. It's not about what I believe to be true, it's about how well I can manage procedural thinking when I need to.
Some people are good at science, and some are not. I can't tell from that whether they believe in God.

Incidentally, I mentioned I was an honours student in that Teaching degree. A close friend of mine managed to beat me out for best results (to be fair, she deserved it more than me anyway).
She was a passionate Christian. Somehow she managed to pass maths and science classes as well as magical thinking classes anyway.

;)
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Whether or not critical thinking can co-exist with religious faith, is of less importance than the recognition that logic and reason do not lead us to God. They may take some thinkers part of the way there, but in the end, these tools of the calculating mind are insufficient.

“[God Consciousness] is not a reasoned conclusion; it is something experienced at the very centre of one’s being, an inalienable fact.”
- Eknath Easwaren
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Haven't decided.

In a nutshell, the discipline to question answers

Anyone can lack critical thinking if they've stopped questioning what the truth is.
It generally means they become satisfied with the answers they already have.
:cool::cool::cool:

I like your answers, thank you:)

So, if someone found the 'truth' they were looking for, that would mean there is no more need for "questioning what this 'truth' is", right? So, also no more need for critical thinking (using your definition) for that 'truth'?

Do you believe (or know) whether or not "critical thinking" is useful and/or sufficient to find the 'truth' (about God and/or other existential questions)?

Or that "it" is the way, or the only way, to find the 'truth'?

Do you only use "critical thinking" or do you have also other 'ways' to (try to) find the 'truth'?

Why do you believe "critical thinking" is needed to find the 'truth'? You read this, or someone you trust, told you, or it's just what you believe?

Do you know someone who found the 'truth' by using "critical thinking"?

Note: with 'truth' (above) I mean not the simple truths like 1+1 etc.
 
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