Critical thinking used by believers about their own belief

[TransmutingSoul]

That was a statement given by the apostle Paul to the Corinthian congregation. By then the Christian congregation had been clearly established. For further information on how this developed a good Bible book to read would be the book of Acts.

My critical thinking of thay would offer that is already trying to restrict the words of Christ to a single audience.

Paul was teaching that Jesus Christ is in union with each person, as Jesus the Christ is with all that hear and act on the Word given by Christ.

Jesus the Christ said many sheep I have that are not of this fold, well before Christianity split into different branches.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I would never use critical thinking about my belief. It would go in circles, as the intellect is prone to do in such cases. That would be a waste of time, when I could be enjoying the flowers, the scent of bhakti. Sadly, many are unaware of other uses of the brain besides intellect.

Does one go to a beautiful waterfall and ask: How much water is flowing? How high is it? What are some comparable waterfalls? Has anyone ever jumped from it? Is it polluted?

Or do you just go there and sit and listen and appreciate?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I would never use critical thinking about my belief. It would go in circles, as the intellect is prone to do in such cases. That would be a waste of time, when I could be enjoying the flowers, the scent of bhakti. Sadly, many are unaware of other uses of the brain besides intellect.

Does one go to a beautiful waterfall and ask: How much water is flowing? How high is it? What are some comparable waterfalls? Has anyone ever jumped from it? Is it polluted?

Or do you just go there and sit and listen and appreciate?

I do both

 

[sun rise]

What will happen if believers started to do critical thinking about every aspects of their own faith?

One touchstone for me has been the aphorism that "mind and heart should be in balance". The mind is the realm of critical thinking. The heart is the realm of faith.

Personally I found that critical thinking strengthened my faith because I had found a satisfying answer to all my questions and I could approach issues with a strong examined faith.

 

[Spirit of Light]

One touchstone for me has been the aphorism that "mind and heart should be in balance". The mind is the realm of critical thinking. The heart is the realm of faith.

Personally I found that critical thinking strengthened my faith because I had found a satisfying answer to all my questions and I could approach issues with a strong examined faith.

I think this is what going to happen for me too

 

[sun rise]

I would never use critical thinking about my belief. It would go in circles, as the intellect is prone to do in such cases.

That is certainly a risk. I did not spend a lot of time in that 'monkey mind' state but certainly visited it.

 

[Nimos]

I would never use critical thinking about my belief. It would go in circles, as the intellect is prone to do in such cases. That would be a waste of time, when I could be enjoying the flowers, the scent of bhakti. Sadly, many are unaware of other uses of the brain besides intellect.

Does one go to a beautiful waterfall and ask: How much water is flowing? How high is it? What are some comparable waterfalls? Has anyone ever jumped from it? Is it polluted?

Or do you just go there and sit and listen and appreciate?

That has nothing to do with doing critical thinking.

I can go into the forest, without having to analyze the hell out of it and the experience. But if im walking there with someone and they tell me, that someone claimed that a monster is lurking in the woods, then my critical thinking would step in.

To do critical thinking doesn't mean that you go nuts and have to critical think about every little thing and do long deep studies, its about claims and arguments. Having an experience, whether that is enjoying nature or spirituality can be done perfectly fine. When you start claiming that for instance a spiritual experience is this and that and it is caused by whatever. That is when its time to take a step back and ask yourself, whether or not that is actually the best explanation or whether there could be another one? Again the purpose of critical thinking is to avoid fooling or drawing bad/wrong conclusions, not especially whether something is true or false, that requires evidence and proofs. Critical thinking can help you when analyzing these.

 

[osgart]

Everyone abides in their own truth. Often enough truths collide and run contrary to each other. People are going to want to govern society with their truth. There has to be agreeable ground to cooperate with each other. If we all govern ourselves with our own truth and nobody is stepping on one another's civil rights then perhaps no problems should arise.
However I expect there will always be tension and conflict if anyone wants it.

So the battle is always going to be over civil rights and how each person's truth affects the policies we make for all people. Critical thinking works well for technology, science, and all the technical aspects of living and also to have a cooperative society. Things like values and morals should have justification and reason and not merely be accepted without proving them to be true .

Personally I have no problem with each person governing themselves according to their own truth among their own kind of people. I do think everyone should have the right to their own civil truth and not have to feel coerced into accepting someone else's ways. I think that's a good place to start in trying to build the necessary common civil rights that all people should at least agree upon.

I like that saying in America, " Don't tread on me ". People have to learn how to do that and not deny anyone basic human rights. What I would hate to see is people always meddling in how another person should live out their personal private lives. America should be foremost about the right to your own personal private life so long as it does no damage to anyone else.

I think it's unavoidable that a society should need to find common ground for all people. A generally acceptable way forward.

What bugs me is the people who want to say morality is only preference, tastes, and opinions. That undermines moral facts. Morality and a person's values have real cause and effect. We should be able to reason and justify our moralities and values according to a more universal, and beneficial cause and effect.

 

[Nimos]

So the battle is always going to be over civil rights and how each person's truth affects the policies we make for all people. Critical thinking works well for technology, science, and all the technical aspects of living. But to have a cooperative society things like values and morality will always come up.

I think you misunderstand it a little bit, at least that is how I understood what you wrote. Critical thinking can be applied to almost anything. Its a about making and "testing" arguments and claims. Given that morality can essentially be both of these, being able to critical assess another person's moral claim seems perfectly valid to me.

I posted this is another thread, but you can watch it and see if that is what you meant and if I misunderstood you or you agree with it.

 

[osgart]

I think you misunderstand it a little bit, at least that is how I understood what you wrote. Critical thinking can be applied to almost anything. Its a about making and "testing" arguments and claims. Given that morality can essentially be both of these, being able to critical assess another person's moral claim seems perfectly valid to me.

I posted this is another thread, but you can watch it and see if that is what you meant and if I misunderstood you or you agree with it.

I'll go back and edit my statement.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

No doubt It would point us to One God.

That's not how it works, though.

 

[Link]

This is not something I have done about my of faith....and I should have done it.
What will happen if believers started to do critical thinking about every aspects of their own faith?

Some of RF's believers may already do it daily
Will our faith get stronger or will it be a to big challenge?

It depends, if you ask for answers for critical question and seek clarification, you will get it. If you ask to find fault, your bias will find fault and reject truth no matter what answers you get.

It's the nature of faith and disbelief, that it is about, bias. The one who wants to find God will find him. The one humbles his heart to the hadiths of Ahlulbayt (a) will find amazing wonders in them and in Quran through them.

If you seek asylum in God's Name and refuge from Satanic magic, doors of light will open in your soul and the majestic wonders of Quran and Sunnah unveiled.

 

[Link]

O you who have faith! Do not ask about things, which, if they are disclosed to you, will upset you. Yet if you ask about them while the Quran is being sent down, they shall be disclosed to you. Allah has excused it, and Allah is all-forgiving, all-forbearing.
Certainly some people asked about them before you and then came to disbelieve in them.(Quran 5:101-102)


Imam Ali (a) says "ask questions for clarification, not to find fault"

 

[Spirit of Light]

It depends, if you ask for answers for critical question and seek clarification, you will get it. If you ask to find fault, your bias will find fault and reject truth no matter what answers you get.

It's the nature of faith and disbelief, that it is about, bias. The one who wants to find God will find him. The one humbles his heart to the hadiths of Ahlulbayt (a) will find amazing wonders in them and in Quran through them.

If you seek asylum in God's Name and refuge from Satanic magic, doors of light will open in your soul and the majestic wonders of Quran and Sunnah unveiled.

All the question that will be asked is for deeper understanding. It is also to find my own bias so I can take away my own faults.

This isnt about disproving or proving religious beliefs or spirituality. It is about understanding the wisdom from within.

 

[Link]

If you begin to ask questions to doubt what you should not, you will find faults, but not real faults, just faults you think you found. I did that for 4-5 years. I found 40+ "problems" in Quran and even made a website with it. Contradictions etc, it was all in my head and I thought Quran was flawed because of it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If you begin to ask questions to doubt what you should not, you will find faults, but not real faults, just faults you think you found. I did that for 4-5 years. I found 40+ "problems" in Quran and even made a website with it. Contradictions etc, it was all in my head and I thought Quran was flawed because of it.

I have no intention of proving flaw or no flaw, critical thinking is to ask question to learn more.

If you feel it is wrong to ask difficult question about your own faith, that is fully up to you. Same as it is fully up to others to ask questions they want to.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's not how it works, though.

One can live in hope and optimism.

Regards Tony

 

[Nakosis]

So far.
Critical thinking is to question everything. To scrutiny evidence that may lay in front of us. To gain a form of verifiable answer to the question asked.

Right now I am not sure I can do it 100% as intended but I take it as a form of learning about my own understanding of reality or even belief.

Yes, I like the idea that the question is far more important than the answer. IMO, understanding that is the key to critical thinking.

 

[Clara Tea]

This is not something I have done about my of faith....and I should have done it.
What will happen if believers started to do critical thinking about every aspects of their own faith?

Some of RF's believers may already do it daily
Will our faith get stronger or will it be a to big challenge?

What if we then question if we are right and turn away from our faith in the right God and right religion? Should we turn down the morals of the right religion?

Sure, some of the most immoral people tout religion (some as believers and some as preachers). Reverend Tex Watson (of the infamous murderous Watson clan) likely has used a bible and theology education as a pass key to fool parole boards and escape from prison.

But what about all those moral people who give their all for their religion? Should we be poisoned by the few (or many) reverends who don't live up to God's expectations?

Critical thinking is probably better than no thinking at all, but it just might lead to the wrong conclusion.

What would happen if people no longer put their faith in Reverend John Hagee, and no longer defied God ("thou shalt not kill") and prayed to Jesus to kill more effectively in wars? What if, instead, everyone started reading the bible on their own and started putting their faith in their own interpretations, rather than following the interpretations of others?

No longer would we be swayed or cheated by the likes of Reverend Jim and Tammy Fay Bakker, but we could understand the bible as God intended it to be understood. There is no ulterior mammon motive behind our own ernest attempt to understand God's words.

Jews argue their religion very often, and very often in heated debates with other Jews. Did this ruin their religion of thousands of years? They withstood the enslavement of Egypt, and the concentration camps of Nazi Germany (while their bretheren were made into lampshades and starved to death and gassed in ovens). Their religion held fast throughout the most strenuous challenges.

Thinking and debating religion does nothing but strengthen resolve (for religion or against it). But, at least you can hold your head high and say that you have fully thought out your decision, and it is your own decision, not motivated by someone elses greed or ambition.

 

[Clara Tea]

One can live in hope and optimism.

Regards Tony

Hopefully we can live in hope.