Criticism of Islam.

[TagliatelliMonster]

British supported Wahabism and were the reason many Sufis were killed in the region.

If you say so.
And?

Again, how does this contradict what I said?

 

[Link]

With all due respect brother Link, what you did above is the definition of bigotry.

So be it, I'll be the dark knight and bigot and negative vibes persons everyone hates. Truth needs to be spoken regardless of how people are going to perceive you for it.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

US are ruled by Satanic people and are not less oppressive that past oppressors that God destroyed. I believe all the warnings from Pharaoh's people to other destroyed nations like Ad are a final warning to US, Europe, Israel etc... I believe not taking a stance against US and Israel as oppressive countries will mean you are apathetic towards oppression and it will land you in hell forever (just watching by the oppressors and letting them do what they want) as the hadiths point out. They are disbelievers and their hate shines in their politics.

My stance is I don't think any who does not take a stand against oppressors such as US and Israel has a chance to enter paradise whether the proof of Islam is presented to them or not. I believe all that don't take a stand will be raised as murderers and oppressors towards innocents.

This is proof that disbelief in God and Mohammad (s) makes you evil. The injustice disbelieving people support is proof that the good people are with Mohammad (s). I've witnessed few non-Muslims with good sense of justice. Very little have it.

This is a big part of why I am an antitheist. Look at what your religion has taught you. This is the first step in the dehumanization of the other - he is immoral, unjust, apathetic toward oppression, haters for being unbelievers. It's what the Christians do with atheists (and gays) as well.

How should outsiders view such a religion? Where's the good part of Islam from the outsider's perspective?

So you are an expert in arabic right? Its cute you cherry picked from a cherry picked verse because you dont know anything else. Very cute. And please dont make up new languages. Its not Ado al kafarina. There is no "Ado" sound in arabic. Aww. Can you explain what "yakaffara bissilahi" mean in Quranic arabic?

And here you are again trying to disqualify the opinions of those who have criticized Islam in a thread called criticism of Islam. You have used mockery here, and imposed arbitrary standards for being qualified. But you cannot control the flow of information about Islam or the opinions of those expressed here and elsewhere with this kind of thing. You've condemned going to web sites and broadcast media for information about Islam. You've attempted to disqualify somebody's formal education about Islam because it's not flattering to you.

But you can't control the information or the conclusions people come to upon seeing it. They don't like what they see. They see things like the quotes above. The see qur'anic scripture that is unflattering.

IN the end, I see nothing good coming from this religion (not just yours). When I've said this before, I've been told that that is because the media has a confirmation bias against Islam and won't report the good. What good? What does Islam do that any non-Muslim should want a strong Islamic presence in his neighborhood? Where is this hidden benefit or goodness that would follow this wonderful religion working its magic in the neighborhoods?

If Islam as an institution were a net good, that would be apparent. Hospice is such an institution, and it is commonly understood that it is a very good program. My wife's girlfriend's father in California has been on hospice for a few weeks now, and all we hear are its praises. And I've heard them from many others before.

Likewise with our local do recue organization, that spays and neuter rescue dogs, gets them vaccinated, treats any parasitic infections, and places them into homes after screening the candidates. Nobody that is familiar with them doesn't recognize what a wonderful entity it is or how it serves the community. If it were lost, it would be a huge setback for us. Not so much with any of the churches.

Your god hates atheism. Literally hundreds of verses make that extremely clear. One of my "favorites" is 2:98 - "Allah Ado al kafarina" (God is the enemy of unbelievers").

Verse 29:68 says, "And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith?"

Thanks for those qur'anic quotes. Copied and pasted for future reference. Here's one for you:

“Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him ...” Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985)

Personally I don't give a rat's behind what islam (or any religion) supposedly really says. First, because you can ask 10 followers from around the world and you'll likely get 10 different answers. Secondly, because I care about how it is lived, how it plays out in practice.

Exactly. Outsiders don't care what's on paper, but rather, how the religion actually manifests. It is pointless to point to the book and say, "This is what the Bible teaches. Look. It says right here to love one another. What a great religion. If everybody would just do that."

We've got two Muslims disagreeing right here who point to the same book. One of them has learned that his eternity in paradise is threatened by not taking a stand against people that he has come to see as evil for not sharing his beliefs, the other telling him that he doesn't understand his religion because of that, as if the religion were the words on paper more than the presence of Muslims in the world and how those words are rendered.

 

[Link]

If you say so.
And?

Again, how does this contradict what I said?

They picked Abdul Wahab and Ibn Taymiyah who's interpretations of Islam were rejected by majority of Sunni scholars, and even deemed heretics for attributing God body limbs.

Sure, they didn't invent the monstrous atrocities in those books warping Islam to kill other Muslims, but they supported that version. You tell me why now.

 

[firedragon]

So be it, I'll be the dark knight and bigot and negative vibes persons everyone hates.

Nah. Dont try to make it a personal thing, it was an objective observation.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes they did. In reality, they did. And sought to corrupt through dictatorships any okay version of Islam (but okay I mean not true, but not as bad as Wahabism).

Saudi Arabia and the government that came to being through British funding obeyed who funded them in all respects, including killing of many many sufis in the region.

ISIS obeys the funding that goes back to Obama.

LOL!!!

This is conspiracy drivel the likes of which I have never seen before.
Okay, so aparantly "fundamentalist islam" is a creation of "colonists and imperialists".

Then again, I'm talking to a guy who openly states that non-muslims are like dogs with no sense of ethics / justice and alike.

I should have expected this, I guess.

 

[Link]

This is a big part of why I am an antitheist. Look at what your religion has taught you. This is the first step in the dehumanization of the other - he is immoral, unjust, apathetic toward oppression, haters for being unbelievers.

How should outsiders view such a religion? Where's the good part of Islam from the outsider's perspective?

Outsiders don't necessarily oppose Mohammad (s). When someone decides to oppose the Great Prophet and final Prophet to mankind and his holy successors, they are rejecting guidance of God for their whims or whims of other humans. Satan is warned about and most heard of him, and so to not take refuge in God and his asylum and rope, yes, you will become unjust in nature.

There are countries like Venezuela and Cuba who are an exception. They are very just in their politics. But most of the west are debauched from their politics and even their sexually deviance that has deviated severely (as far as sexual deviance goes) according to most cultures and religions of the world of all times.

 

[Link]

Nah. Dont try to make it a personal thing, it was an objective observation.

I never take it personal, it just hurts people make it personal and as a result can't accept truth because of that.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sure, they didn't invent the monstrous atrocities in those books warping Islam to kill other Muslims, but they supported that version. You tell me why now.

I don't care why or how. Or even if.

My point stands. The beliefs are the beliefs.

 

[Link]

I don't care why or how. Or even if.

My point stands. The beliefs are the beliefs.

They cherry picked a scholar deemed heretic by most sunni scholars and this has become the official religion of Saudi Arabia after being Sufi mostly. You tell me why.

And oh, so much Western former criminal converts come to this version of Islam from jails to other places, you tell me why.

 

[firedragon]

And here you are again trying to disqualify the opinions of those who have criticized Islam in a thread called criticism of Islam.

I think you should do some research on what criticism is. Please google.

 

[firedragon]

I never take it personal, it just hurts people make it personal and as a result can't accept truth because of that.

Brother, when you make a statement that is the definition of bigotry, it has to be said no matter who you are. Even if its my mother, I would tell her.

Hope you understand.

 

[Link]

Brother, when you make a statement that is the definition of bigotry, it has to be said no matter who you are. Even if its my mother, I would tell her.

Hope you understand.

I understand, you should also know people understand terms and define it the way they want and half the battle is semantics. I am a bigot to homosexuals and bisexuals for example. I don't mind.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There are countries like Venezuela and Cuba who are an exception. They are very just in their politics

WHAT????????????????

But most of the west are debauched from their politics and even their sexually deviance that has deviated severely (as far as sexual deviance goes) according to most cultures and religions of the world of all times.

Right, right... how evil we are for granting people freedom and choice for how two consenting adults spend their time in their bedroom.

 

[firedragon]

They picked Abdul Wahab and Ibn Taymiyah who's interpretations of Islam were rejected by majority of Sunni scholars, and even deemed heretics for attributing God body limbs.

Who quoted Abdul Wahhab and Ibn Taymiiyyah? Lol. Maybe they just got their scholarship from a hate website. People pretend to be so well informed and studied up when all they have done is just read off a website.

 

[firedragon]

I understand, you should also know people understand terms and define it the way they want and half the battle is semantics. I am a bigot to homosexuals and bisexuals for example. I don't mind.

You have not undertstood bigotry.

Bigotry is when you say a group of people are just immoral, bad or something like that just because they dont believe in Islam. Thats bigotry.

 

[Link]

Who quoted Abdul Wahhab and Ibn Taymiiyyah? Lol. Maybe they just got their scholarship from a hate website. People pretend to be so well informed and studied up when all they have done is just read off a website.

The British did when they funded who would become the government of Saudi Arabia (dictatorship), they chose it tactically per commands of Magog per command of Gog per command of Iblis himself.

How else can you get Muslims to kill Muslims?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

They cherry picked a scholar deemed heretic by most sunni scholars and this has become the official religion of Saudi Arabia after being Sufi mostly. You tell me why.

No, YOU tell me why it has become an official religion.
YOU tell me why they believe this.
YOU tell me why followers of a religion would allow outsiders to cherry pick for them what they should believe.
YOU tell me why those writings even existed in the first place

That was my point and you are dodging it like a professional dodgeball player.

The beliefs are the beliefs. They don't have to believe it. They have access to the same information as you. They can read the same quran. And they do.

And oh, so much Western former criminal converts come to this version of Islam from jails to other places, you tell me why.

Because radicals already in jail are converting them.

 

[Link]

You have not undertstood bigotry.

Bigotry is when you say a group of people are just immoral, bad or something like that just because they dont believe in Islam. Thats bigotry.

You can define however you want and I will carry the label. I don't mind.

 

[firedragon]

IN the end, I see nothing good coming from this religion (not just yours).

This thread was opened for people like you to express your hatred so that you get some kind of release and stop doing that in every single thread.

And you will get a response.