Cross or Upright Stake

[Twilight Hue]

Wikipedia has a good article on this. There were two common types of crucifixion that the Romans used. The used a simple stake at times. But Jesus was probably crucified on stake with a cross piece on top. It would have looked like an upper case "T:". Also the idea that Jesus would have carried the whole cross as commonly depicted is probably wrong because a cross put up with a body on it would not be very stable. He probably only carried the cross piece and was put up on a stake that was a permanent part of the city just for crucifixions:

Crucifixion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Last edited at the time of this posting by, oh my God that's a long number. ..

I'll just apply the name C3PO just to keep it easy.

 

[cataway]

Why would you make the assumption? More important why assume that the story is even correct? Once again you are not understanding Roman crucifixion. Jesus almost certainly died on the cross. That sort of happens quite often when people are crucified.

if you were to do a forensic investigation the conclusion that presents it self is that Jesus and the other two men died on a up right stake . if nailed to a cross a person can live for days .if hung on a stake from the hands up over ones head the person dies in hours . they are give a few hours to die if not then dead the legs would be broken . as you may recall when they came back to brake the legs of Jesus he was already dead.

 

[Subduction Zone]

if you were to do a forensic investigation the conclusion that presents it self is that Jesus and the other two men died on a up right stake . if nailed to a cross a person can live for days .if hung on a stake from the hands up over ones head the person dies in hours . they are give a few hours to die if not then dead the legs would be broken . as you may recall when they came back to brake the legs of Jesus he was already dead.

It does not matter how they died. And how can you do a "forensic investigation"? There are no reliable sources of the event and the ones that do exist tend to contradict each other. By the way, why do you even think that there were two others? What crimes did they commit?

Much of the story just appears to be myth that grew after the fact.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I looked at the verses and it's all over the place. It seems like half of the translations say cross, and the rest say tree.

And one would need to read the original Aramaic to get the best clue. The problem is that the Gospels tend to clash a bit. John has the crucifixion on a different day and at a different time than the other Gospels do.

 

[cataway]

It does not matter how they died. And how can you do a "forensic investigation"? There are no reliable sources of the event and the ones that do exist tend to contradict each other. By the way, why do you even think that there were two others? What crimes did they commit?

Much of the story just appears to be myth that grew after the fact.

luke 23
; 32  Two other men, criminals, were also being led off to be executed with him.+ 33  And when they got to the place called Skull,+ they nailed him to the stake there alongside the criminals, one on his right and one on his left.+

yep it would help if you would read the book

 

[Subduction Zone]

luke 23
; 32  Two other men, criminals, were also being led off to be executed with him.+ 33  And when they got to the place called Skull,+ they nailed him to the stake there alongside the criminals, one on his right and one on his left.+

yep it would help if you would read the book

No, you just refuted yourself. You clearly do not understand Roman crucifixion and you do not seem to want to learn.

 

[cataway]

No, you just refuted yourself. You clearly do not understand Roman crucifixion and you do not seem to want to learn.

well now you did say ''By the way, why do you even think that there were two others?'' plainly you did not know 2 other people were hung up that day

 

[walt]

The New Testament, specifically Galatians 3:13, quotes the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

Deuteronomy 21:22 וכי And if יהיה have committed באישׁ a man חטא a sin משׁפט worthy מות of death, והומת and he be to be put to death, ותלית and thou hang אתו על him on עץ׃ a tree:

The Hebrew word H6086 עץ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon Number
1. tree, wood, timber, stock, plank, stalk, stick, gallows
a. tree, trees
b. wood, pieces of wood, gallows, firewood, cedar-wood, woody flax

KJV Usage: + carpenter, gallows, helve, + pine, plank, staff, stalk, stick, stock, timber, tree, wood.

In the Hebrew language this word does not mean cross. Galatians 3:13 quotes the Old Testament - the word does not mean cross?

Sorry my comment may be inappropriate according to the rules of this section, I don't know?

 

[cataway]

It does not matter how they died. And how can you do a "forensic investigation"? There are no reliable sources of the event and the ones that do exist tend to contradict each other. By the way, why do you even think that there were two others? What crimes did they commit?

Much of the story just appears to be myth that grew after the fact.

ah but it does matter how he died. there are prophecies that would be fulfilled in his death

 

[Subduction Zone]

ah but it does matter how he died. there are prophecies that would be fulfilled in his death

Please be specific.

 

[cataway]

Please be specific.

you are telling me you don't know . please read the Bible

 

[cataway]

Luke 9:22
22  but he said: “The Son of man must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and on the third day be raised up.”
Luke 24 :44
 He then said to them: “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled.”

Psalm 22:16-18
16  For dogs surround me;They close in on me like a pack of evildoers,Like a lion they are at my hands and feet.17  I can count all my bones.They look on and stare at me.18  They divide my garments among themselves,And they cast lots for my clothing.

Isaiah 53:7-9
7  He was oppressed and he let himself be afflicted,But he would not open his mouth.He was brought like a sheep to the slaughter,Like a ewe that is silent before its shearers,And he would not open his mouth. 8  Because of restraint and judgment he was taken away;And who will concern himself with the details of his generation?For he was cut off from the land of the living;Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke. 9  And he was given a burial place with the wicked,And with the rich in his death,Although he had done no wrong And there was no deception in his mouth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

you are telling me you don't know . please read the Bible

No, I am telling you that I probably disagree with your interpretation of the Bible. If you had anything you would have posted it. You are almost certainly projecting when you accuse others of ignorance. You made a claim that put the burden of proof upon you. I made that public. Your response was a personal attack instead of supporting your claim and as a result it now looks to be very bogus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Luke 9:22
22  but he said: “The Son of man must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and on the third day be raised up.”
Luke 24 :44
 He then said to them: “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled.”

Psalm 22:16-18
16  For dogs surround me;They close in on me like a pack of evildoers,Like a lion they are at my hands and feet.17  I can count all my bones.They look on and stare at me.18  They divide my garments among themselves,And they cast lots for my clothing.

Isaiah 53:7-9
7  He was oppressed and he let himself be afflicted,But he would not open his mouth.He was brought like a sheep to the slaughter,Like a ewe that is silent before its shearers,And he would not open his mouth. 8  Because of restraint and judgment he was taken away;And who will concern himself with the details of his generation?For he was cut off from the land of the living;Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke. 9  And he was given a burial place with the wicked,And with the rich in his death,Although he had done no wrong And there was no deception in his mouth.

Sorry, quote mines are not prophecies. There have been people scanning the Old Testament for 2,000 years for anything that looks as if it could be a prophecy. But when read in context it is not a prophecy. Tio even be considered to be a prophecy there must be a clear statement of intent. There was none. Except your bogus Luke example where a person made his own prophesy and fulfilled it in one piece of fiction. You do not even appear to understand what a prophecy is in the first place.

 

[YoursTrue]

luke 23
; 32  Two other men, criminals, were also being led off to be executed with him.+ 33  And when they got to the place called Skull,+ they nailed him to the stake there alongside the criminals, one on his right and one on his left.+

yep it would help if you would read the book

Yes, there were two others next to Jesus who were being executed.

 

[YoursTrue]

ah but it does matter how he died. there are prophecies that would be fulfilled in his death

Actually, some of us are seriously looking forward to the future as this world continues -- I am pretty sure, based on your posts, you are too.

 

[cataway]

Sorry, quote mines are not prophecies. There have been people scanning the Old Testament for 2,000 years for anything that looks as if it could be a prophecy. But when read in context it is not a prophecy. Tio even be considered to be a prophecy there must be a clear statement of intent. There was none. Except your bogus Luke example where a person made his own prophesy and fulfilled it in one piece of fiction. You do not even appear to understand what a prophecy is in the first place.

ah , you expect us to hand feed you all the answers .could ya maybe read the book?

 

[cataway]

subduction zone​

I have a problem for you . how were the nails that were pounded in removed from the wood that held his hands and feet?
me, I 'm thinking I know. but ,go ahead ,please enlighten us.

 

[wellwisher]

John 19:17 So they took Jesus, and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called The Place of a Skull, which in Aramaic is called Golgotha.

One visible difference between a pole and a cross is a pole is like a 1-D line. While a line, by definition, needs two points to become defined; good and evil defines the law pole. Law is one way; linear pole, based on the two points of good and evil. The two thieves were under law and may have been crucified on poles. Jesus did not break any Roman law; Pilot washed his hands and let the mob decide. Jesus died based on mob rule; irrationality. This was unique and showed respect.

The cross, on the other hand, is in 2-D space, with four elements, or two sets of two points; two lines or two poles like an (x,y) grid. One pole was the vertical or the y axis; law, with Jesus also having an x-axis. Jesus and the cross was more than just law, but also faith and fate.

The Christian sign of the cross, used while praying, starts at the mind eye; above and between the eyes; Father. The bottom of the y-pole is next, at the heart/solar plexus. This is the son. The Holy Spirit, which was to be left behind, was the new x-axis or x-pole, left to right shoulder. The cross symbolized an addendum to the classic spirit. The spirit of truth was more that just blind 1-D obedience to law. The Holy Spirit, as the spirit of truth, was more advanced thinking than blind obedience to law. Blind obedience makes you linear. Whereas truth gives more of a sense of meaning and reasoning; 2-D thought and cause and effect.

The late Psychologist Carl Jung had the theory that all humans have four psychological functions; intellect, emotion, intuition and sensory. These help orientate us to reality. We all have these four, but different people will use them in different orders. This different order accounts for the variety of types of adaptation.

In terms of the cross, intuition is the head, intellect is the right shoulder, sensory is the heart/foot; touches the earth, the emotion is the left shoulder. The 1-D pole or y-pole of law is intuition and sensory (or know by heart). What was added to make the x-pole or x-axis of the cross was emotion and intellect; spirit of truth.

If you were only intuitive and sensory you would sense and have an intuitive sense of what to do next, but without knowing why other than it feels right or wrong. In a sense, law of good and evil was sort of a replacement for instinct, structuring behavior, but without have to know any good explanation; blind obedience of law as formerly had been for instinct.

The Holy Spirit brought more of the brain to the table and allowed one to ask why, allowing more access to two additional functions. It was no longer; one size fits all, but more in terms of shades of gray, which takes more nuisance of feeling and thought.

The death of Jesus at the hand of the mob, was also symbolic of the end of the age of the gods. Human had controlled the fate of the Son of God and even had him killed. The gods had been the means to structure the mind but this approach blurred sensory reality. Law was way to find new footing, at a time when the whims of the gods, in reality; the blur, would appear more statistical and less structured as cause and effect. With the age of the Gods, sacrificed, the two extra functions of intellect and emotion added another dimension; x-axis to consciousness, on a larger scale. It was the update from BC to AD, played out in symbolism, spread out over time.

 

[cataway]

bla bal bal to say what ?