Cross or Upright Stake

[YoursTrue]

Why trust the Bible? Do you trust the Gospels when Luke has Jesus born in 6 CE and Matthew has him born in 4 BCE or even earlier? When it comes to the crucifixion do you believe John or the other three at which time of day that it occurred or even as to what day it occurred? That story goes against Roman custom. Bodies were not taken down. Here is what an actual scholar of the time says:

And where is your link? Bogus translations of the Bible do not help you if you cannot link them.

Unfortunately you are not an honest scholar because if you were, you'd at least stick to one subject at a time instead of rounding everything up after you make a mistake and say nothing can be trusted in the Bible. I will just say this--when the scriptures were put together (and I believe it was by divine direction, I know you do not believe that and will give objections, but one thing at a time which you don't seem to be able to do from my considerations with you) and preserved by God for eternity, the temple in Jerusalem was not destroyed yet. Jesus warned the Jews about this before he was killed. However, for this conversation, the thieves next to Jesus were not killed because they committed simple theft. That was not what linguists say about the Greek word used there. YES, sedition and things like that were also capital crimes, but SO WAS ROBBERY BY VIOLENCE AND OTHER MEANS like banditry. Be honest with yourself and others for a change. I know it's hard, but it will at least make you look more honorable when you make charges.
I could get into a discussion of exactly how Jesus was killed, whether on one piece of wood or a stake with a transom, but not now. Maybe later. In the meantime, that it is said Jesus was killed next to two thieves is perfectly true under the circumstances of the Greek language and its extenuation. Thank you.

 

[cataway]

What does it matter?

it could be about exposing lies in religion

 

[Kathryn]

it could be about exposing lies in religion

I guess but it doesn't matter to me HOW Jesus was crucified, just that He was.

 

[YoursTrue]

What does it matter?

I'm not sure which detail you are alluding to, but my point is not now about the method of Jesus execution, perhaps later for that -- but rather to correct what Subduction Zone said about his idea that the Bible wasn't truthful when it said he was executed next to two thieves. If you read the posts in question about that (not the method, which is not my consideration right now) you may understand it better. The Bible is not wrong. But if you'd like, perhaps follow along with Subduction Zone's posts sometimes in regard to his opinion about the Bible.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm not sure which detail you are alluding to, but my point is not now about the method of Jesus execution, perhaps later for that -- but rather to correct what Subduction Zone said about his idea that the Bible wasn't truthful when it said he was executed next to two thieves. If you read the posts in question about that (not the method, which is not my consideration right now) you may understand it better. The Bible is not wrong. But if you'd like, perhaps follow along with Subduction Zone's posts sometimes in regard to his opinion about the Bible.

You know what matters to me? I believe that Jesus was crucified, period, and that the bible accounts attest to this. I don't care how it happened, just that it happened.

 

[Subduction Zone]

did you not read Luke 23:52 & 53 This man went in before Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53  And he took it down and wrapped it up in fine linen, and he laid it in a tomb carved in the rock, where no man had yet lain.

Two points, first you did not link your source. That alone allows me to throw it out. Second the Bible is not an accurate source so why are you referring to it? In fact you do not believe the Bible yourself when it says that Jesus died. You are being inconsistent in your reasoning. You do not get to pick and choose when it comes to sources that way.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You need to look up the commentaries about the Greek terms and what the Romans thought. Yes, the Romans did not execute mere thieves like a shoplifter. But they did execute those who were like bandits and committed violent acts along with the thievery. Yes, punishment was used against those opposing Rome. But -- it was also used in the sense of robbers using violence.

No, you needed to support your claims with valid sources. Apologists are never valid sources. Christian apologists tend to be Liars for Jesus. Muslim apologists tend to be Liars for Muhammed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unfortunately you are not an honest scholar because if you were, you'd at least stick to one subject at a time instead of rounding everything up after you make a mistake and say nothing can be trusted in the Bible. I will just say this--when the scriptures were put together (and I believe it was by divine direction, I know you do not believe that and will give objections, but one thing at a time which you don't seem to be able to do from my considerations with you) and preserved by God for eternity, the temple in Jerusalem was not destroyed yet. Jesus warned the Jews about this before he was killed. However, for this conversation, the thieves next to Jesus were not killed because they committed simple theft. That was not what linguists say about the Greek word used there. YES, sedition and things like that were also capital crimes, but SO WAS ROBBERY BY VIOLENCE AND OTHER MEANS like banditry. Be honest with yourself and others for a change. I know it's hard, but it will at least make you look more honorable when you make charges.
I could get into a discussion of exactly how Jesus was killed, whether on one piece of wood or a stake with a transom, but not now. Maybe later. In the meantime, that it is said Jesus was killed next to two thieves is perfectly true under the circumstances of the Greek language and its extenuation. Thank you.

Quite the contrary. I acknowledged my error. You ignored that. And you do not know if Jesus warned anyone or if that was written into the story after the fact.

 

[cataway]

Two points, first you did not link your source. That alone allows me to throw it out. Second the Bible is not an accurate source so why are you referring to it? In fact you do not believe the Bible yourself when it says that Jesus died. You are being inconsistent in your reasoning. You do not get to pick and choose when it comes to sources that way.

you could maybe go back to #334 ok I know you did not read it the first time but here's your chance

 

[YoursTrue]

Quite the contrary. I acknowledged my error. You ignored that. And you do not know if Jesus warned anyone or if that was written into the story after the fact.

I saw to a degree that you acknowledged it. Good for that. I like to be specific. I won't go over it again right now. I believe that he warned the Jews to get out of Jerusalem when they saw certain things occurring. The temple is long destroyed and has not been rebuilt. There's more to be said, perhaps later. Reviewing previous post, I see you really did not admit your error about what the Greek term means. (oh well...and it is what it is. I hope you can clarify things as time goes on...)

 

[YoursTrue]

Two points, first you did not link your source. That alone allows me to throw it out. Second the Bible is not an accurate source so why are you referring to it? In fact you do not believe the Bible yourself when it says that Jesus died. You are being inconsistent in your reasoning. You do not get to pick and choose when it comes to sources that way.

Do you link your opinions to sources justifying your opinions?

 

[YoursTrue]

No, you needed to support your claims with valid sources. Apologists are never valid sources. Christian apologists tend to be Liars for Jesus. Muslim apologists tend to be Liars for Muhammed.

Since you do not consider the Bible a valid source, virtually nothing the Bible says is true, as far as you are concerned. And you're not alone in that. You have plenty of company. That is why God is God and we humans are not. Meantime, the two criminals next to Jesus were killed because their thieving activities evidently merited executing them, as Greek dictionaries would explain. Thievery by violence and/or gang related activity as bandits would get involved in was considered a capital crime and the term used for thief in Greek evidently involves that aspect.

 

[YoursTrue]

You know what matters to me? I believe that Jesus was crucified, period, and that the bible accounts attest to this. I don't care how it happened, just that it happened.

I agree he was killed by the Roman state because of his views and teaching, yes. I'm not getting into the exact method of execution right now, but good for you that you believe he was executed. Even the conversation with Pilate before his execution is most interesting.

 

[cataway]

I guess but it doesn't matter to me HOW Jesus was crucified, just that He was.

had he died in any other way then prophesy would not of been fulfilled . it had to happen the way it did

 

[YoursTrue]

Quite the contrary. I acknowledged my error. You ignored that. And you do not know if Jesus warned anyone or if that was written into the story after the fact.

Here's a question for you -- oh never mind -- we're in a thread about whether Jesus died on a cross or an upright stake, and right now I'm not getting involved in that difference. But do you think he was even executed, however? by the Roman government?

 

[cataway]

Quite the contrary. I acknowledged my error. You ignored that. And you do not know if Jesus warned anyone or if that was written into the story after the fact.

you never did say how the nails were removed

 

[YoursTrue]

You know what matters to me? I believe that Jesus was crucified, period, and that the bible accounts attest to this. I don't care how it happened, just that it happened.

Perhaps @Subduction Zone can offer you his opinion.

 

[YoursTrue]

@Subduction Zone we've been through the dates of Jesus birth before. This is not the thread for it. When I have more time, I'll go over it again for you and also the date of December 25.

 

[Kathryn]

I agree he was killed by the Roman state because of his views and teaching, yes. I'm not getting into the exact method of execution right now, but good for you that you believe he was executed. Even the conversation with Pilate before his execution is most interesting.

It may be the most interesting conversation recorded in the bible.

 

[cataway]

its a thing that happen that we don't have all the gruesome details. in our minds eye me see the agony Jesus went through .stretched out on a pole ,nails through his hands and feet. the pole raised and dropped into a hole. that hole could of been 3-4 ''deep . to say that sudden stop hurt would be a under statement.