cult characteristics

[exit_and_how]

thanks - didn't know this was so heavily researched.

 

[exit_and_how]

There was a previous post about false memories and cults. Another similar talk is scheduled:

Paranormal Experiences, Recruitment, and the Religious Marketplace
Frauke Zahradnik, Ph.D.

 

[jkdenm]

When is this talk? and where? is is possible to get transcript?

 

[exit_and_how]

The conference is June 29 - July 1, 2007 in Brussels, Belgium.
...thinking no transcript.

 

[exit_and_how]

would like to know a good resource for PSYOPS techniques - things cults might use, for example what the US did to Manuel Noriega - sleep deprivation by blasting hard rock music at all hours.

 

[exit_and_how]

would anyone please translate the following (i believe they are French):

Analyse de contenu du texte fondateur du mouvement raëlien

Fonction parentale et attitudes éducatives dans des groupes considérés sectaires par la réaction sociale

 

[Willamena]

would like to know a good resource for PSYOPS techniques - things cults might use, for example what the US did to Manuel Noriega - sleep deprivation by blasting hard rock music at all hours.

The U.S. arranged for Manuel Noriega to have head phones?

 

[exit_and_how]

it was US troops who used this technique when Noriega was seeking sanctuary in the Holy See's embassy in Panama. He eventually surrendered, was tried in Miami, and is currently serving time in a US prison. I suppose that he has headphones...

interestingly, the FBI and BATF used similar techniques in Waco, TX against the Branch Dividians headed by David Koresh. Supposedly, they loudly played recordings of animals being slaughtered as well as drilling noises.

another PSYOP technique is just plain propaganda: dropping leaflets into villages, transmitting government-run radio programs, etc.

other PSYOP techniques worth discussing: character assassination and brainwashing with reports of LSD and drug-induced comas to try to influence people.

 

[Freedomelf]

Hello, Exit.

I also think that the term "cult" is frequently overused to mean nothing more than "a religion -- probably a relatively new or smaller one -- that I don't like."

Precisely. It is very difficult for people to understand that just because you belong to a religion that they've never heard of, that doesn't make you a "cult".

Often, less known religions have far less "cult-like" tendencies than the mainstream religions who use "hellfire" and "damnation" as a way to force their followers to remain faithful. Any type of coercion, whatsoever, is bad. If you have to be coaxed, prodded, brain-washed or urged to either become a member or remain one, then that was never meant to be your religion in the first place. And any religion that says you can't also attend other religous services, in order to see for yourself which is best for you, should be rejected on the basis of limiting one's freedom. JMHO

 

[jkdenm]

It seems that some people get on the defensive when the word "cult" is used - perhaps because their group isn't very popular. However, i think there should be words in our language to describe a religious group that does more harm than good. I saw a news story about virtual slavery on ABC News last night. I suppose that if I worked very hard for low pay and someone came around saying "slave, slave, slave", I might get offended. But the case i saw on television really was slavery. This woman from Cameroon was coerced into working (in the US!) in terrible conditions as a live-in maid for no pay and got beatings. Fortunately, the "employer" got caught and is now serving time in prison for slavery. It's hard to believe that these things go on, much less in the US.

In studying this forum, maybe one solution to eradicating actual cults out there - watchdog groups. Perhaps suspected groups could be infiltrated, etc. for evidence. Without watching out backs, it could be similar to 911 - remember? People started feeling too safe and neglected their duties believing nothing like that could happen to us.

 

[DeepShadow]

...you mean watchdog groups like Watchman Fellowship, who list Mormons as a cult?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In studying this forum, maybe one solution to eradicating actual cults out there - watchdog groups. Perhaps suspected groups could be infiltrated, etc. for evidence. Without watching out backs, it could be similar to 911 - remember? People started feeling too safe and neglected their duties believing nothing like that could happen to us.

The problem with a watchdog group is you have to come up with a much better definition, and some sort of guide to follow. By the very definition, of members being forced to conforming to the ideals of the group or be kicked out, you can consider alot of Christian churches to be cults. It is almost unheard of to consider a church a cult, but going by definition, alot of them are. I know of a few churches that tell you how much to tithe, based on your income. Call it a cult though, and you will recieve alot of wierd looks.

 

[exit_and_how]

how does the abuse/harm end in a group that is closed/exclusive/secretive?

what happens when "internal affairs" doesn't work?

does a group have to end like Jim Jones' group before the harm stops?

 

[DeepShadow]

Excellent questions! It's not that I and others don't think such a thing needs to be stoipped before it ends in mass murder. My concern comes when my church shows up as a blip on the radar.

What criteria can you offer that don't have false positives?

 

[exit_and_how]

if i went to the doctor and the doctor did a routine test for a disease, i would much rather get a false positive than missing a diagnosis if i had the disease. if i didn't have the disease and got a false positive, then i wouldn't mind opting for a more decisive, if more complicated, test.

in the case of LDS, i never ever before considered it cult-like (and i even own a Book of Mormon for reference sake). however, when i read threads about cults, some members seem to get defensive sometimes. this actually got me a little suspicious about it to be honest.

as for groups that are more clearly cults, any sensible person should consult more than one source before getting into it. something controversial should be a red flag. as for members that are in a cult group and don't know it, reaching these individuals could be difficult because often they've been indoctrinated to reject anything that may seem negative toward their group. my hope would be that they somehow outgrow the limited teachings of the cult and (perhaps via some miracle) find a source that addresses what they really need (and have been lacking) spiritually.

 

[Freedomelf]

However, i think there should be words in our language to describe a religious group that does more harm than good.

Absolutely. Any group that does more harm than good needs a word to describe it, and cult fits the bill. Actually, any group that does ANY HARM should carry some kind of warning label.

The problem is that many people will automatically assume an unknown group is a "cult" without taking the time to see whether that group is in any way causing harm. That is sad, because it implies that only big, established religions are good, when in fact many big, established religions are "cultish", and many small or unknown ones are not. It just depends upon the group, and it is important to take the time to actually think about a label, and whether it applies, before using it.

As far as people getting on the defensive, yes, I do agree that if you label a cult a cult, they will get on the defensive. But I think anyone tends to get on the defensive when derrogatory terms are used, whether or not they happen to be apt. Most reasonable people, however, will brush it off and not take serious offense. Those who are guilty, however, tend to take a lot more offense and often return insult for insult, much to their detriment.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Most reasonable people, however, will brush it off and not take serious offense. Those who are guilty, however, tend to take a lot more offense and often return insult for insult, much to their detriment.

I do believe it's the exact opposite. Cults often relish negative publicity, citing II Timothy 3:12 as proof of their being right. They see any criticisms as persecution and persecution is evidence that they are on the right track. Cults are like Drama Queens: they love the notoriety that comes with controversy.

 

[exit_and_how]

excellent observation, ScubePete. this crystalized some of what was going on in the back of my mind.

 

[exit_and_how]

The International Cultic Studies Association made an announcement recently.

Call for Papers: ICSA 2008 Annual Conference at the University of Pennsylvania , Philadelphia , Pennsylvania (June 27-29, 2008):
http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_conferences/call_for_papers/2008_philadelphia.htm

 

[DeepShadow]

if i went to the doctor and the doctor did a routine test for a disease, i would much rather get a false positive than missing a diagnosis if i had the disease.

That's an either-or fallacy.

if i didn't have the disease and got a false positive, then i wouldn't mind opting for a more decisive, if more complicated, test.

That's assuming the more decisive test is unworkable the first time around, which you have not demonstrated. Begs the original question.

in the case of LDS, i never ever before considered it cult-like (and i even own a Book of Mormon for reference sake). however, when i read threads about cults, some members seem to get defensive sometimes. this actually got me a little suspicious about it to be honest.

If that's all it takes to get you suspicious, then you've got a serious problem. I think you're demonstrating my point.

as for groups that are more clearly cults, any sensible person should consult more than one source before getting into it. something controversial should be a red flag.

You mean like stories all over the news that say priests are having sex with little kids? News has a bias toward controversy, that's what makes it news. It takes a much more careful analysis than merely checking multiple sources. I can show you multiple sources that say the moon landing was faked.

as for members that are in a cult group and don't know it, reaching these individuals could be difficult because often they've been indoctrinated to reject anything that may seem negative toward their group. my hope would be that they somehow outgrow the limited teachings of the cult and (perhaps via some miracle) find a source that addresses what they really need (and have been lacking) spiritually.

I'll agree with all of this. My only concern is with fine-tuning your instruments.