• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Curious question to the unvaccinated

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
What’s your recommendation on getting vaccinated? Can you show me the pros and cons?

There's pros and cons in everything in the medical feild-medicines, treatments, etc.

Cons are things like side affects
COVID-19 Vaccination

There's always things you have to take into consideration when deciding what to put in your body regardless if its soley for yourself and/or for others. If not its taking things for granted.

@KenS did a better job
Covid: ICU nurse speaks out (#13) Though I listed cons in the past and they were shot down. It seems like skepticism isn't really a thing, to be blunt.

What do you mean by recommendation?

I just find lack of coercion and presenting material that doesn't make every con misinformation. Not to censor everything and be honest with the public.

As far as the vaccine it’s too early to tell and we don’t know for sure the sides effects, long or short term or if they will make a difference because you still can get Covid and need boosters, but if you want to travel, be part of the in crowd and not called selfish and things like this then get vaccinated, cause it really isn’t about your health.

That's a definite con. We just don't know.

Those who are not part of a crowd and don't travel aren't selfish so I see no reason for them to be vaccinated--though these considerations aren't taking into consideration.
 
What do you mean by recommendation?
Wasn’t a question for you really but any doctor or person pushing the vaccine, they don’t know too much about it, yet want to strong arm and guilt trip people into vaccination even when the data is showing that it’s not really a vaccine or effective like they were saying.
I can tell already from previous post where you stand on the issue and agree with you on it for the most part.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Wasn’t a question for you really but any doctor or person pushing the vaccine, they don’t know too much about it, yet want to strong arm and guilt trip people into vaccination even when the data is showing that it’s not really a vaccine or effective like they were saying.
I can tell already from previous post where you stand on the issue and agree with you on it for the most part.

I can't remember when, but I did listen to a few doctors frustrated and telling people they have to tell vaccinated people repeatedly in many words don't take this for granted. It's not a cure and the breakthroughs CDC records doesn't help just as much.

I actually can't think of a provaxxers claim about me that's true. People have different opinions but facts are a different story.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I think it's pretty obvious how antivaxxers feel about all of these things. They don't like being criticized. They don't think their risk of dying is high enough to justify taking a vaccine. Their lifestyle, whatever it is, either isn't a factor in their thinking or they consider themselves to be at low risk. They either don't believe that they are being selfish or don't care what others want or need. And their own deaths are not likely in their minds, and the death of others simply isn't a factor.

What's interesting to me are the questions not asked. There are no questions (or comments in the replies) about civic duty, or why they think they know what best for them in an area where the overwhelming number of experts and the hospitalization and death statistics contradict them, or how they feel about their role in perpetuating the pandemic, or do their critics have any valid points. Are their concerns justified? Are they justified in seeing you as a pariah? Do you care if they do? If not, why not?

This self-centeredness is probably not apparent to those refusing vaccines based on misinformation and fears. They're not looking out at the people around them at all. They're uninterested in their needs, their fears. Those are just other bodies roaming around, not people that they feel any connection to or duty to.

Just look at the kinds of answers you are getting from other antivaxxers. Not a scintilla of concern for others comes into any of the answers of the willingly unvaccinated. No sense of community. No talk of responsibility, just rights. You only see those things from the other side, who speak in terms of responsibility to people that only answer in terms of their rights.
I know that there are plenty of people choosing not to vaccinate because they are concerned about the well being of themselves and others. Hundreds of doctors and scientists are concerned about the long term detrimental health impact of the vaccines upon the human immune system and vital organs, especially with regard to microvascular blood clots. When these physicians or scientists speak out they are shut down and blacklisted.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Surprisingly such people are high on the list of those that end up in Hospital. low contact or not.
Such people as they do come into contact with are often in the high risk bracket of those passing Covid on.
Such as health visitors, home helps, doctors, delivery people, and church members.

I also fall into that isolated old fogy bracket, however I am double vaccinated.
But my daughter is married to a GP so contact chances are high, even though they both have regular, almost daily, tests and are double vaccinated.
A friend of mine is a nurse at the local VA hospital in a large city. Last week she and the others nurses were quite overwhelmed with Covid patients- ALL who were FULLY vaccinated.

A hundred members of the crew on
the newest flagship aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth reportedly had COVID-19. The entire crew was fully vaccinated.

“The Royal Navy emphasized that the carrier and the strike group remain fully operational and that all the crew have received two doses of the vaccine for COVID-19.”

Positive COVID Tests on British Flagship HMS Queen Elizabeth


Twenty-seven people tested positive for Covid abroad a Carnival Cruise ship. All were vaccinated, as well all the other passengers and crew.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/13/27-...tive-for-covid-on-a-carnival-cruise-ship.html
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
But my point was, Covid-19 as far as an active disease out in the wild, needs human hosts in order to survive. If everyone was vaccinated, it would cease to be a threat to us, as it would be gone (except for samples being kept alive in some lab somewhere).
Perhaps this will help in answering whether an 80% vaccination rate might get things back to "normal".....
Israel thought so.....but got a rude awakening....

This is from one of our most trusted news channels....(Australia)

What will life look like when we're 80 per cent vaccinated? This country offers a glimpse
 
Last edited:

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I know that there are plenty of people choosing not to vaccinate because they are concerned about the well being of themselves and others.

Nobody is choosing not to vaccinate because they are worried about the welfare of others.

Their reluctance to take the vaccine for fear of it is a bit of a mystery given the known danger of the virus. They are essentially saying that they fear the vaccine more than the virus, which is undoubtedly because they're not thinking about the danger of the virus at all. I'm reminded of a person afraid to go out in thunder and lightning, whose house is struck by lightening causing the house to catch on fire, and he refuses to get up and go out because he is "concerned about his well-being." He sees danger outside with the storm, and so he is reluctant to act.

That's how I hear claims of being concerned about the vaccine. I realize that people want that choice respected, but to somebody looking at the relative risks of the vaccine and the virus, how one could choose to risk the virus unprotected over the vaccine that has been so well tolerated and so effective at saving lives is a mystery.

Regarding those who were waiting for others to provide herd immunity and make them safe, that never happened, and now appears to be unattainable even if the world were 100% vaccinated today. Why? Herd immunity is not when everybody is vaccinated, but when most people don't have the virus and are immune to infection by it. Those are generally safe days for the unvaccinated, since so few of the people around them could have the virus, they don't catch it.

That's just not possible when nobody is immune to infection, even the vaccinated. We will continue circulating this virus among ourselves, vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, for an indefinite period of time. Right now, the vaccinated are relatively immune to severe disease, and the deaths for the foreseeable future will occur mostly in the unvaccinated. I say foreseeable future, because the next strain of coronavirus may be able to pierce the present protection of the vaccine against severe disease and death. What we can expect for the next few months to years is a daily COVID death count mostly at the expense of the unvaccinated.

How long will these people continue to die needlessly? How many of their unvaccinated friends and family will they have to see to recognize that the threat of the virus and that it is greater than the that of the virus, as they see the vaccinated doing well and most deaths coming from the group they've chosen to put themselves into. It's a tough call.

I think that most will eventually want the vaccine when they realize that they've been sitting in the burning house avoiding the storm. You've got to believe that a time will come when he recognizes that the burning house he's taking shelter in is the greater threat, and he will eventually try to get out of it if he can.

But even if they do, that only means that they stop dying, not that the virus goes away. I don't see that happening unless a stronger vaccine is invented to prevent infection like we had back in December, when the mRNA vaccines offered 95% protection against even mild or asymptomatic infection. Herd immunity was still a possibility at that time. Get enough people that kind of protection, and the virus has nowhere to go, so, it becomes scarce in the community.

But that's not going to happen with the delta variant dominating the viral population worldwide. Although the vaccines are still very effective at preventing things like respiratory failure and kidney failure, they won't clear the virus from the local population. The older precautions of the prevaccine era will be the most defense we can expect to muster to reduce person to person transmission. Will that be enough to clear the virus? Again, hard to guess.
 
Although the vaccines are still very effective at preventing things like respiratory failure and kidney failure, they won't clear the virus from the local population. The older precautions of the prevaccine era will be the most defense we can expect to muster to reduce person to person transmission.
In other words there is no vaccine, we had treatments that worked before the supposed vaccine roll-out but the propaganda won the day over a majority of the people. Frontline doctors who have been demonized and called quacks were right all along on their treatments and how Covid works, is transmitted and how to treat this virus and early treatment is necessary for the best results. That natural immunity is best and long lasting.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Regarding those who were waiting for others to provide herd immunity and make them safe, that never happened, and now appears to be unattainable even if the world were 100% vaccinated today. Why? Herd immunity is not when everybody is vaccinated, but when most people don't have the virus and are immune to infection by it. Those are generally safe days for the unvaccinated, since so few of the people around them could have the virus, they don't catch it.

That's just not possible when nobody is immune to infection, even the vaccinated. We will continue circulating this virus among ourselves, vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, for an indefinite period of time. Right now, the vaccinated are relatively immune to severe disease, and the deaths for the foreseeable future will occur mostly in the unvaccinated. I say foreseeable future, because the next strain of coronavirus may be able to pierce the present protection of the vaccine against severe disease and death. What we can expect for the next few months to years is a daily COVID death count mostly at the expense of the unvaccinated.

How long will these people continue to die needlessly? How many of their unvaccinated friends and family will they have to see to recognize that the threat of the virus and that it is greater than the that of the virus, as they see the vaccinated doing well and most deaths coming from the group they've chosen to put themselves into. It's a tough call.

I think that most will eventually want the vaccine when they realize that they've been sitting in the burning house avoiding the storm. You've got to believe that a time will come when he recognizes that the burning house he's taking shelter in is the greater threat, and he will eventually try to get out of it if he can.

But even if they do, that only means that they stop dying, not that the virus goes away. I don't see that happening unless a stronger vaccine is invented to prevent infection like we had back in December, when the mRNA vaccines offered 95% protection against even mild or asymptomatic infection. Herd immunity was still a possibility at that time. Get enough people that kind of protection, and the virus has nowhere to go, so, it becomes scarce in the community.

But that's not going to happen with the delta variant dominating the viral population worldwide. Although the vaccines are still very effective at preventing things like respiratory failure and kidney failure, they won't clear the virus from the local population. The older precautions of the prevaccine era will be the most defense we can expect to muster to reduce person to person transmission. Will that be enough to clear the virus? Again, hard to guess.

In other words there is no vaccine, we had treatments that worked before the supposed vaccine roll-out but the propaganda won the day over a majority of the people. Frontline doctors who have been demonized and called quacks were right all along on their treatments and how Covid works, is transmitted and how to treat this virus and early treatment is necessary for the best results. That natural immunity is best and long lasting.

Really? That's what you got from my comment? That's how you paraphrase it?

Let me try to paraphrase myself using your comment as a template:

In other words, there are vaccines that for the time being provide excellent protection against severe or lethal COVID, they used to provide good protection against acquiring and spreading the virus, but no longer do since the rise of the delta variant.

Also, I said that herd immunity was not possible without a vaccine that can prevent transmission, predicted that the virus will be prevalent in the community for the foreseeable future even if everybody vaccinates today, that the unvaccinated will continue to die at an appreciable rate for as long as they exist and this virus is prevalent in their communities, and that many who now consider the vaccine more dangerous than the virus will change

I made no mention of the treatments for COVID, the vaccine roll-out, propaganda, or doctors being called quacks. I also never claimed anything about the relative benefit of natural and vaccine delivered immunity. Those are all your words.

Let me add that because of this new situation, people remaining unvaccinated are no longer a threat to the vaccinated except that they might fill our hospital beds when others need them for non-COVID concerns. That's something I'm protected from, as our community's two hospitals both transfer COVID patients needing hospitalization to a large city nearby. There are still threats to the vaccinated, but they come from the virus, not the unvaccinated. One of the vaccinated may be the source of the next, more deadly variant.

Recognizing that, I also realize that what the unvaccinated do is of no concern to the vaccinated. The pandemic for us will be masks and restrictions. The pandemic for them will include ventilators and death. The pool of unvaccinated will have an appreciable death rate, but as they die off or see death, relent, and become vaccinated, the pool of unvaccinated will dwindle as will their absolute death and hospitalization rate even though the rate at which they succumb will remain high. Three percent of a million is one tenth as many as 3% of 100 million.

And for the record, I don't blame the willfully unvaccinated for the current mess caused by the delta variant. Even if everybody who could get a vaccine in the States and elsewhere did so, this would have happened anyway, because there were many more unwillingly unvaccinated people in the world waiting for vaccine in their countries when the delta variant arose in one of them.

So, do whatever you like with my blessings. Here's hoping that you learn how to evaluate the relevant evidence better and change your mind, but as long as your choices don't bleed adversely into the lives of the vaccinated, I'm good with whatever you decide. Good luck to you and to those who love you depend on you.
 
In other words, there are vaccines that for the time being provide excellent protection against severe or lethal COVID, they used to provide good protection against acquiring and spreading the virus, but no longer do since the rise of the delta variant.
False, first the supposed vaccine was safe, but not really for a lot of people, then it was 96% effective but now 60% or less and booster needed already. Was going to prevent Covid now you just won’t get it as bad…:confused:
What’s it gonna be next year, sorry we didn’t know?
 
Last edited:

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
If a vaccinated person is later exposed to the virus, their natural defense mechanism can recognize it. The body's defense mechanism destroys the virus and prevents it from entering cells or spreading further.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
If a vaccinated person is later exposed to the virus, their natural defense mechanism can recognize it. The body's defense mechanism destroys the virus and prevents it from entering cells or spreading further.

So far. Booster shots seem to slowly discredit the success of the current vaccines after awhile. Temp solution.
 

Alienistic

Anti-conformity
How do you rate your risk of catching COVID insofar the risk isn't high enough (important or so have you) to vaccinate? (Do you believe you can spread the virus without you knowing it?)

Already caught it during early stages of “outbreak,” in my perception this is the most natural immunity.

That, and how does your lifestyle, situation, and morals play a part in not vaccinating (for example, some people rarely leave their home and are not around people close enough to possibly catch and spread COVID)... do you have similar lifestyle in those respects?

I value what little choices the human race has left. Don’t mind those that choose to get this or those that don’t. Never will be personally coerced from fear, pity stories, attempts at guilt trips, bad egotistical judgements from anyone when it comes to putting anything into this body. I wear a mask and keep good, clean hygiene at work or in public. Still have not excluded the idea of getting one. Although variants will just magically and allegedly keep mutating and more and more and more vaccines will be needed, prior ones ineffective and useless, and not a game I wish to personally play. No offense to humans, but I’m mostly introverted and most are exhausting and insincere for me, so I stay away.

I believe that those with poorer immunity, should take much more extraordinarily measures, or those taking care of them. Such as online schooling for the time being, wearing masks also, great hygiene, as less as social or public interaction as possible.
 
Top