Curious question to the unvaccinated

[SomeRandom]

I am just being realistic and accurate.

IF you don't vaccinate
AND your immune system is too weak
AND there is a lethal virus
AND there is no God taking your karma
AND ....
THEN you die
IF it catches you

I don't want people to die, hence it's good to give true and complete facts, including that you die (only if all above criteria are met).

Real Love means giving the other grown up the freedom to choose for themselves how to stay healthy, which includes making wrong choices

Anyway, this problem will solve itself. If unvaccinated see that all the unvaccinated die then most will quickly change from unvaccinated into vaccinated. Usually people don't have a death wish

I applaud your optimism. But does it have to wreak havoc whilst it just “goes away?” If it does. I mean there could be even worse strains in the future. But I’m no immunologist, so whatever.
How about we do what we can to minimise harm? Just a thought.
I mean getting in a car accident doesn’t guarantee that you will die. But it’s better to put on a seat belt than not, right?

 

[SomeRandom]

That is only so for those who were infected with human to human viruses. You can eventually eradicate those viruses because the human host can achieve immunity....but in the case of Covid 19.....you would also have to eradicate the bats from which it originated.

Maybe. But I suspect the virus has already mutated to a point where it is unrecognisable from the original strain. Don’t quote me on that though. I’m no biologist.
I get what you’re saying. But I fear you might have to ask someone more qualified than me because I don’t know how it all works

I have read that you can only eradicate those viruses that affect solely human hosts. If a virus has animal hosts, such as those transmitted from animals to humans, you will never eradicate the virus because its animal hosts will continue to spread it to humans. Could it not also mutate in those animal hosts? Covid 19 is a bat virus....genetically modified by humans to transfer to human hosts. What we are dealing with is a completely new kettle of fish....very smelly fish. Why would scientists want to mess with bat to human transfer of deadly viruses if not for sinister reasons?

Well you’d have to ask those scientists, honestly. Because I kind of agree with you. That said I know that “curiosity kills the cat” so this could have been an experiment gone wrong, studies to try to treat said bats and how it can possibly affect humans (just in case) or something else simply gone awry or any number of things. I can’t give you a definitive answer because I’m a random idiot.
Again someone more qualified is probably a better person to ask than me

I am not an anti-vaxer per se, as much as I am careful about what I allow into my body, be that food or medicine.....especially if someone wants to inject me with something that is not thoroughly tested and that they cannot be reversed once it is in there.....then I am going to be very cautious about it until I am satisfied with the results of my own research. At this point, I am less than satisfied with the amount of scare mongering propaganda and censorship that is attached to this particular virus and its treatment. I want to know why the equally qualified dissenting voices are being silenced. Should we not be permitted to make our own choices in this? I take all the recommended precautions so as not to become a danger to myself or others, but I simply am not convinced that the vaccines are the magic bullet that the authorities are suggesting that they are. Everything will not go "back to normal" any time soon. We will just have to learn to live with this virus....and its mutating strains as the years go by.....there are four already.....more to come it is feared.

And I can respect that position. Honestly I do. I think I am a bit impatient and anxious for us to find a fast way to at least get over the harsher elements of this pandemic. I know we won’t go back to “business as usual” for quite some time. Unfortunately

What I found interesting is that my mother, who basically thinks the same way you do, (but minus the religious aspect lol) was very happy to get Pfizer. (She was above the recommended age for it, but it was through her employer and since she’s in a priority field, she got free choice.)
Maybe that alleviated her concerns, idk. She was quite concerned about the AstraZeneca, but seemed indifferent about the others.

Meanwhile I get my second dose of Pfizer on the 6th of next month. So far I had a sore arm for a couple days. But I don’t often have bad reactions to any type of medicine. So eh.

Also why don’t we have the option of the J&J vaccine? I’ve read that it’s far more effective and only requires one dose? Did we just not bid high enough? Can we not transport it long distances without it spoiling? Like what’s the deal?

Any of my science knowing RF users or just my American brethren enlighten me on this?

 

[Windwalker]

My gut feeling: lab in Wuhan

Well, yes no doubt these horrible diseases, like smallpox which we got rid of through everyone being vaccinated, by the way, we still have samples of it kept in labs somewhere for study.

But my point was, Covid-19 as far as an active disease out in the wild, needs human hosts in order to survive. If everyone was vaccinated, it would cease to be a threat to us, as it would be gone (except for samples being kept alive in some lab somewhere).

Think of it in terms of keeping people inside a room where there was no food or water to drink. Forget any future populations through reproduction. They'd all die in a few weeks without food. Same thing for Covid-19. And the moral of the story..... get vaccinated! 14 Diseases You Almost Forgot About (Thanks to Vaccines)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, yes no doubt these horrible diseases, like smallpox which we got rid of through everyone being vaccinated, by the way, we still have samples of it kept in labs somewhere for study.

But my point was, Covid-19 as far as an active disease out in the wild, needs human hosts in order to survive. If everyone was vaccinated, it would cease to be a threat to us, as it would be gone (except for samples being kept alive in some lab somewhere).

Think of it in terms of keeping people inside a room where there was no food or water to drink. Forget any future populations through reproduction. They'd all die in a few weeks without food. Same thing for Covid-19. And the moral of the story..... get vaccinated! 14 Diseases You Almost Forgot About (Thanks to Vaccines)

How long did it take to each herd immunity?

We could just be hoping until something happens. I don't know of other cultures but America tends to be future oriented...though we want to have results overnight I don't see that as realistic.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, yes no doubt these horrible diseases, like smallpox which we got rid of through everyone being vaccinated, by the way, we still have samples of it kept in labs somewhere for study.

But my point was, Covid-19 as far as an active disease out in the wild, needs human hosts in order to survive. If everyone was vaccinated, it would cease to be a threat to us, as it would be gone (except for samples being kept alive in some lab somewhere).

Think of it in terms of keeping people inside a room where there was no food or water to drink. Forget any future populations through reproduction. They'd all die in a few weeks without food. Same thing for Covid-19. And the moral of the story..... get vaccinated! 14 Diseases You Almost Forgot About (Thanks to Vaccines)

How long did it take to each herd immunity?

We could just be hoping until something happens. I don't know of other cultures but America tends to be future oriented...though we want to have results overnight I don't see that as realistic.

 

[Windwalker]

How long did it take to each herd immunity?

I took those words and pasted them into a Google Search. Almost beyond belief, this was the very first hit: Herd immunity and COVID-19 (coronavirus): What you need to know

Vaccines

Herd immunity also can be reached when enough people have been vaccinated against a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection. Unlike the natural infection method, vaccines create immunity without causing illness or resulting complications. Using the concept of herd immunity, vaccines have successfully controlled contagious diseases such as smallpox, polio, diphtheria, rubella and many others
​

How long that will take depends upon how long it takes for people to wise up to be played by politicians who make matters of public health power platforms on which to exploit people's fear. As soon as people wise up to their being exploited and manipulated takes, then we can achieve herd immunity. Simple as that.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

How long did it take to each herd immunity?

We could just be hoping until something happens. I don't know of other cultures but America tends to be future oriented...though we want to have results overnight I don't see that as realistic.

In 1796 Edward Jenner discoverd the innoculating some one with cowpox pustules protected them from smallpox. The world was declared free of smallpox in 1980
So first to last was 184 years

So far the have failed to eradicate flu. Despite continuous research.

Covid, a similar ever changing virus, is also likely to evade efforts to eliminate it.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I've seen people say "If you don't take the vaccine its because you are selfish and not thinking of others" When asked if they took the vaccine for others or theirself, they say for myself. Isnt that the definition of selfish?

Selfish isn't thinking about oneself. We expect others to do that. Selfish comes up when there are competing values between one's preferences and what is good for others, situations where kind and empathetic people sometimes consider the needs of the other and share resources or provide other assistance to them, but other kinds of people just don't think about them or consider their needs. Maybe your stereo is too loud and a college roommate asks you to turn it down to study, but you never consider their needs and leave the stereo up.

The willfully unvaccinated are making their choice without any interest in community, which is why I consider them selfish, like litterers and people that take two parking spaces. I've pointed that out on this thread twice now - none of the unvaccinated have ever expressed a scintilla of interest in those around them. It never comes up in their posting. At a minimum, one could say that they are sorry to be seen as a menace or for any part they played in spreading this pandemic, but it simply never comes up in their responses. They only seem to be interested in not being blamed or criticized. There has been no acknowledgement of any responsibility owed to others even to their own family members and neighbors. Those people just aren't in their thoughts.

I'm not asking them to do this either. I'm not asking them to feign concern they don't have, although it might be in their selfish best interest. I'm simply pointing out that what this pandemic and this discussion over the months has shown me is that these are different kinds of people, and not different in a trivial way or variety is the spice of life way. Different in a don't get too close or expect too much kind of way.

How on earth did you come up with that assumption [although you know you are Wrong, you do not like to be told so.]?
1. I understand how certain behaviors spread the pandemic
2. I don't believe it is right to mandate vaccines and telling people they contribute to the pandemic

I see how he came to his conclusion. It seems you can't. You have sheltered yourself from blame or responsibility. You just wrote that you understand how the pandemic is spread, but you don't want to be forced to take a vaccine, which is essentially telling you that you are wrong to refuse one and shouldn't have that choice.

I support vaccine mandates, because I can see that it is pointless to appeal to either science or civil duty with large numbers of people, I know that they will continue to make selfish decisions, and I want it stopped by any means necessary including vaccine mandates for those for whom they are not medically contraindicated. I've heard the arguments and rejected them. I no longer care if one is comfortable taking a vaccine, or wants full FDA approval, or is waiting to see how things go out there, or calls the vaccines experimental. I have good reasons to reject all of those ideas, and am really not interested in trying to appeal to their sense of reason or decency.

It would be like pleading with a bank robber to please stop robbing banks by appealing to their sense of decency and community. No "how would you like it" argument can have any impact on somebody like this, because he doesn't care who he hurts. That's what sociopathic means. You lock him up, a sort of "no bank robbing" mandate if you will.

It makes me wonder if everyone got vaccinated other than the exempt, would we eventually reach herd immunity?

No, that genie is out of the bottle until and unless new vaccines appear that can not only prevent severe disease and death, but also sharply reduce simple person to person transfer, and that vaccine can be administered to most of the world before a virus that can break through that level of immunity arises. We could have the whole world vaccinated now, and we would still expect the virus to continue taking up residence in the human race to spread itself indefinitely until it devises a mutation that begins killing again.

I don't blame the antivaxxers for this. This was going to happen simply because the world couldn't get vaccines to those willing to take them fast enough. Even if people hadn't refused vaccines, this still would have happened - we'd still have the delta variant percolating indefinitely through the human race, it's principal reservoir and vector.

I still consider them selfish, and all things being equal, not the best choice of person to trust or put yourself in a position to have to depend on. I still resent how little they cared about others. It's a character issue. I think it was you that framed this as a cultural choice between individualism and collectivism. I disagree. We do both. That's reflected in the dual role every citizen in a free, capitalist society has - to pursue happiness for himself and to facilitate others doing the same by cheerfully obeying the law and paying taxes. I don't accept calling what I call selfishness individualism. It's that, but more, and worse.

 

[stvdv]

Zero is almost certainly wrong

Yes, they even announced ZERO officially. Really stupid.

Obviously they wanted to trick people into getting vaccinated. I don't like such manipulation at all. Trust is gone.

And that was not the only thing. Our PM explicitly made a promisse publicly (I even recorded it I think, cause I didn't trust him) in case someone gets sick from vaccination. And sure enough a young woman (28) got paralized from vaccine (proven) but PM did not keep his word (too many lies)

I expect some flue deaths have been subsumed into the Covid death figures, as the covid virus may also have been present.
These things can be very difficult to disentangle.

IF they can't disentangle 10.000 flu death from 12.000 covid+flu death, then it is proven that they have no clue about covid. Again, not trustworthy faking high covid numbers

 

[stvdv]

I applaud your optimism. But does it have to wreak havoc whilst it just “goes away?” If it does. I mean there could be even worse strains in the future. But I’m no immunologist, so whatever.
How about we do what we can to minimise harm? Just a thought.
I mean getting in a car accident doesn’t guarantee that you will die. But it’s better to put on a seat belt than not, right?

Yes, of course it's best to minimalise harm.

In Holland some expect the worst to come this winter. I hope they are wrong, and if vaccines are working they must be wrong. So, I hope all this will end soon. Back to normal, not New Normal

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes, of course it's best to minimalise harm.

In Holland some expect the worst to come this winter. I hope they are wrong, and if vaccines are working they must be wrong. So, I hope all this will end soon. Back to normal, not New Normal

As someone who just went through winter. Unless you have herd immunity up, expect the worst

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I decided I was not going to get vaccinated in December 2019/January 2020. Independent news sources were already warning of the upcoming vaccine mandates.
Zero trust policy in the government. Simple as that. I don’t trust the government at all and millions are like minded.

Then talk to your doctor. It is, after all, the medical and science community that are responsible for the vaccinations.

 

[stvdv]

As someone who just went through winter. Unless you have herd immunity up, expect the worst

90% have already been vaccinated from those at risk. So, if the vaccine is good there might be less death this winter

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I have another question for the unvaccinated:

If you actually did catch COVID-19, would you take monoclonal antibodies, if prescribed by your doctor? Isn't that putting something into your body that you know nothing whatever about?

If your answer is yes, then why will you still not take the vaccine, and save yourself and everybody else a whole lot of suffering and expense?

 

[SomeRandom]

90% have already been vaccinated from those at risk. So, if the vaccine is good there might be less death this winter

Oh then you guys should be fine. Hopefully

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have another question for the unvaccinated:

If you actually did catch COVID-19, would you take monoclonal antibodies, if prescribed by your doctor? Isn't that putting something into your body that you know nothing whatever about?

If your answer is yes, then why will you still not take the vaccine, and save yourself and everybody else a whole lot of suffering and expense?

I'd take meds and treatment if needed. I'd speak to my doctors first since they know me in person. I'd be critical and ask about side effects. No doctor would push the positives over negatives. I'd ask what's the worst that can happen and take meds etc accordingly.

I've never intentionally taken vaccines and unless Im at high risk (not mentally but literally), then I'd fine multiple ways to figure how to prevent catching COVID before taking any meds, vaccines, etc.

I wouldn't go to a doctor to get meds just in case I get sick unless the risk is high enough to warrant that decision.

I'm sure most would do the same with other illnesses...be skeptical about ones health and loved ones but in this case it's so highly politicized to the point of wars against vax/unvax that to treat covid as other serious illnesses when it comes to skepticism is near nonexistant.


Evangelicalhumanist. The argument (I hope) isn't about treatments. Most provaxxers are upset that someone leaving themselves open to catch the virus will spread it and kill others.

It's a question of whether unvax cared about others not whether they want the vaccine to address COVID. It's a moral argument not a medical one. I think most would take the vaccine if--It has gone through years of testing side effects to warrant the vax safe (like other meds*), if they had all information both sides without coercion propaganda, if they weren't told they kill others despite their individual circumstances, they have freedom to choose what's best for others in accordance with their morals and edicts.

IMO as well.

It's not specific to the vax but the context surrounding it politically, morally, and health related.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, they even announced ZERO officially. Really stupid.

Obviously they wanted to trick people into getting vaccinated. I don't like such manipulation at all. Trust is gone.

And that was not the only thing. Our PM explicitly made a promisse publicly (I even recorded it I think, cause I didn't trust him) in case someone gets sick from vaccination. And sure enough a young woman (28) got paralized from vaccine (proven) but PM did not keep his word (too many lies)


IF they can't disentangle 10.000 flu death from 12.000 covid+flu death, then it is proven that they have no clue about covid. Again, not trustworthy faking high covid numbers

IMO
From that link and the propaganda (bias, advertisement) video I had to watch they mentioned propaganda, though having negative connotation, if push comes to shove is intentionally used in things like war, world crisis, things like that.

Unfortunately it's copyrighted so I can only see it though my school but I'd probably find something similar.

 

[stvdv]

I'd take meds and treatment if needed. I'd speak to my doctors first since they know me in person.

Very wise.

I remember some of your health stories you shared. RF internet doctors know nothing about you, and if they try to push you, that is very wrong. Much better to talk about this with your doctor

The official info my doctor gave me is totally different from what is pushed here by RF'ers (who just read internet news). Even dangerous to push people esp. with guilt shame tactics

ONLY you and your personal doctor know best about your personal health situation. RF'ers should stay out of it. Each human is unique, esp. when one has underlying health issues.

Unasked advice can be dangerous even

 

[stvdv]

IMO
From that link and the propaganda (bias, advertisement) video I had to watch they mentioned propaganda, though having negative connotation, if push comes to shove is intentionally used in things like war, world crisis, things like that.

I liked the link you gave me about all different propaganda being used. I never thought about it that much before, but the whole picture became suddenly much clearer after reading your link (propaganda being used in war, crisis and what not). All news seems to me 1 big propaganda nowadays (esp. American news)

Unfortunately it's copyrighted so I can only see it though my school but I'd probably find something similar.

When we are unbiased then indeed it's more easy to find a few similar things

I am just interested in the truth. But that's messy and not easy to find with all their manipulation. But I just continue, and don' t make decision until I feel good about it.

 

[stvdv]

But it’s better to put on a seat belt than not, right?

Even if I don't take vaccination seatbelt, I have ca. 5 or 6 other highly effective seatbelt options to choose from. At the moment I use even 3 seatbelts simultaneously (not out of fear, just because it's Dharmic), so you need not worry about my covid protection