We are still wondering how a virus got to be a political issue....that split a nation right down the middle....? Its bizarre because the virus doesn't seem to be partial along party lines.
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Curious question to the unvaccinated
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
COVID doesn't care about reasoning. It cares nothing about people's duties, rejection, opinions, and arguments. Vax and unvaxed can spread the virus.
I assume provaxxers will blame the last unvaccinated standing assuming that the virus is in cahoots and using unvaxxed to invade the world.
Unless you treat the exempt and nonexempt the same, the issue sounds political disguised as morally motivated.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Ummm no,
Both unvaccinated AND vaccinated spread the virus. Only the unvaccinated die (almost 100% according to @Terrywoodenpic). Flu virus type does not go away, we have it already for a long time. Being vaccinated means you don't die of it. Virus will stay.
So,
If virus is very dangerous and lethal then very soon all unvaccinated people (#MeToo) are dead, and the vaxxer's problem is solved
If virus is not lethal (with and/or without vaccine), well then not much to worry about
I can't take vaccine for medical reasons, but I don't want others to worry about my problem. I just follow the 100% safe solution of CDC "stay in my house" if I don't want to take risks.
The number who can't take the vaccine for medical reasons is very low. With such a lethal virus they have to stay inside, unless they don't mind taking risks. Because if you get it and are not vaccinated you might die (unless your immune system is stronger than the virus)
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Well yeah. Of course the virus will stay. The more vaccinated only means it just won’t have as many hosts. Less hosts basically means less random mutations
You know that’s what people mean when they say that a specific virus is eradicated, yeah? Not that it magically disappears in a puff of smoke
We eradicated polio, at least for a while. Because it didn’t have many if any viable hosts due to herd immunity. The virus still existed, it just didn’t affect humans. The anti vax movement allowed people to become infected with it and basically allowed it to return. Guess how? By choosing not to vaccinate
What about those people’s relatives? No one wishes to see people dead from a preventable disease. At least not seriously. Why is dead people a viable solution anyway?
Ideally we wish to reduce suffering not cause it needlessly. At least I do.
Except for long term medical issues, I guess?
Did you miss the long term internal organ damage known to occur as symptom of COVID?
And I mean, you and I might not have to worry about going bankrupt if we do have such an illness, god forbid. Not the same story in the US, unfortunately.
An illness need not cause death to be a “worry.” Chicken pox doesn’t cause death. But it can cause shingles. I’ve seen shingles, it’s awfully painful and horrible. I’d much rather the vaccine, if I’m totally honest. Unless the side affects of said vaccine literally include honest to god death, how is choosing not to vaccinate the smarter option in that scenario? It’s not about extremes it’s about calculating the better option.
Well that’s different. A vaccine is ideally suppose to protect people who can’t vaccinate. Stay safe
Yep, agreed. But it seemed to me that this thread seemed to focus on the people making the conscious choice not to vaccinate. To not vaccinate for health reasons is the one “get out of jail free” cards in this scenario.
stvdv
Veteran Member
I am just being realistic and accurate.
IF you don't vaccinate
AND your immune system is too weak
AND there is a lethal virus
AND there is no God taking your karma
AND ....
THEN you die
IF it catches you
I don't want people to die, hence it's good to give true and complete facts, including that you die (only if all above criteria are met).
Real Love means giving the other grown up the freedom to choose for themselves how to stay healthy, which includes making wrong choices
Anyway, this problem will solve itself. If unvaccinated see that all the unvaccinated die then most will quickly change from unvaccinated into vaccinated. Usually people don't have a death wish
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
If you have two doses of the vaccine you can hang about in the valleys.
Thing is, I think that cats and dogs carry Covid, in fact I know they do 'cos my Missus works at a vet surgery, so it's up there in them thar hills!
I might get a :-
'It's gonna getcha' T-shirt.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I think if some vaccinated see it in their everyday lives they'd have a better inner decision to vaccinate. Watching and reading numbers and testimonials is just not intimate enough to draw feelings for all people. It's a personal decision.
While I don't agree with manipulating people's emotions, objectively that works better than reading numbers:
Making a point that health decisions are intimate. People need to respect that. No matter how much they feel they are in danger.
I'm sorry, I should have been specific. Didn't think I needed to since the context was talking about Covid-19. I did not mean all strains of covid. What I said hold true. If everyone was vaccinated, Covid-19 would go extinct. You don't believe so? Then how could it survive if nobody got infected? Where is its hiding place, if there are no infected hosts? That is what the experts say about how to eradicate these things.
Is that every completely achievable? Probably not, but getting it to near zero infections, is the best goal.
Time already has told. It is proven to help. Where people are vaccinated, very few new infections occur. Where they are not vaccinated, many new infects occur. Time has proven this the case, as expected rightly so.
We had no natural resistance in our human bodies to Covid-19, so a strong immune system doesn't help. That's why we need a vaccine.
What "other side" are you listening to? Non-experts? How is that listening to the other side. It's not. It's experts vs. hacks. Hacks is not the other side of expert opinions.
And these are not "poorly tested". That is disinformation. The work for this vaccine was not "rushed", in that the majority of the work on it began when they were doing SARS research, which they never finished. When Covid-19 came along, there were already most of the ways there. They could use what they'd done before.
So. What are your sources of your disinformation you are getting your alternative facts from?
That is only so for those who were infected with human to human viruses. You can eventually eradicate those viruses because the human host can achieve immunity....but in the case of Covid 19.....you would also have to eradicate the bats from which it originated.
I have read that you can only eradicate those viruses that affect solely human hosts. If a virus has animal hosts, such as those transmitted from animals to humans, you will never eradicate the virus because its animal hosts will continue to spread it to humans. Could it not also mutate in those animal hosts? Covid 19 is a bat virus....genetically modified by humans to transfer to human hosts. What we are dealing with is a completely new kettle of fish....very smelly fish. Why would scientists want to mess with bat to human transfer of deadly viruses if not for sinister reasons?
I am not an anti-vaxer per se, as much as I am careful about what I allow into my body, be that food or medicine.....especially if someone wants to inject me with something that is not thoroughly tested and that they cannot be reversed once it is in there.....then I am going to be very cautious about it until I am satisfied with the results of my own research. At this point, I am less than satisfied with the amount of scare mongering propaganda and censorship that is attached to this particular virus and its treatment. I want to know why the equally qualified dissenting voices are being silenced. Should we not be permitted to make our own choices in this? I take all the recommended precautions so as not to become a danger to myself or others, but I simply am not convinced that the vaccines are the magic bullet that the authorities are suggesting that they are. Everything will not go "back to normal" any time soon. We will just have to learn to live with this virus....and its mutating strains as the years go by.....there are four already.....more to come it is feared.
You sound like every news broadcaster I've heard for the last year slugging away at people's resistance as though this vaccination is some kind of silver bullet.....it isn't.
The truth is, only a very small percentage of people who contract the virus will actually get hospitalized and only a small percentage of those will need ventilators.....by then their chances of survival are slim unless other measures are taken, but these seem to be missing....like other drug therapies that are showing promise in other countries, but are not tried in our public hospitals.....
With underlying risk factors taken into account, the figures show that these same people may have been taken out by another influenza virus, had they contracted it instead....thousands die every year from the flu in those categories. The virus didn't kill them, it just created the the straw that broke the camel's back for their immune system. The Delta strain is apparently the most transmissible. Masks help but are by no means fail-safe. Covid particles are so small that they can go through just about any fabric mask in current use.
When I wear my mask, I put Vicks Vaporub up both nostrils because at least it creates a barrier between me and the airborne droplets that are lurking everywhere. My sister did this in her overseas travels when everyone on the tour bus got sick but she didn't.
Who told you this? Mainstream controlled media? And you believe whatever they tell you? Sorry I only have that kind of trust in God.
Did you know that adverse outcomes are hushed up in an attempt to silence the critics....many of whom are in the medical profession themselves.
If you want to have the vaccine...then go for it, because that is your choice....but vaccinated people can still get the virus and become very sick and spread it to others...that is a fact.
Look it up.
The various health of people's immune systems are key to how their bodies handle the virus....why do you think some were Asymptomatic? Others had not much more than a sore throat and the snuffles. Put into perspective, very few need to go to hospital compared to how many cases there are. If covid was going to kill everyone, no hospital system would cope. This virus seems to target the elderly and those with underlying health issues, especially those with autoimmune disorders.
Do you ever do research outside of the box you have placed yourself in?
There are clinicians who have sounded a warning, but they are not being heard. A controlled media is told what to report. These are equally qualified scientists in this field who are raising some very valid concerns....but no one hears them unless they can tell people the only other way they can....on social media, but they have to be quick before the censors take them down. What has happened to free speech...has it been buried by free enterprise?
There are no long term studies done on any of these vaccines. And the fact that you cannot sue these drug companies if any adverse effects surface later on, is a warning to all of us. You cannot "unvaccinate" someone. The jab is irreversible. Imagine if there is something unforeseen occurring in all those recipients? Do they really know?.....not according to the research I have done.
Look them up for yourself.......they are there, but don't expect them to be at the top of the Google lists for obvious reasons....you are going to see others debunk everything they say and savagely sabotage their credibility.....I'll let you guess why.
Do you know how much profit is made from these vaccines, especially Pfizer and Moderna?
From Pfizer to Moderna: who's making billions from Covid-19 vaccines?
It makes your eyes water....
stvdv
Veteran Member
When I read the numbers the very first time, the unknown triggered the response to take it serious
When the governments and media started lying and manipulating, that fact triggered the response to not take them serious nor trust them anymore
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
That is true.
However only a proportion of people who catch Covid die or get seriously ill.
Not all with strong immune systems live,
Not all with weak immune systems die.
However very few people who have been double vaccinated die or become seriously ill.
The new D virus can infect both the vaccinated and unvaccinated, but the vaccinated are mostly protected from serious illness and death.
It is thought that any one with the D virus can pass it on, vaccinated or not, which is a serious turn of events. Which will prevent hive immunity.
If a specific vaccine is forthcoming against the D virus then that position might change.
that is as yet an unknown.
The D variety is the virus currently spreading very rapidly through the UK and America
stvdv
Veteran Member
My gut feeling: lab in Wuhan
stvdv
Veteran Member
Interesting fact:
Every year ca. 10.000 Dutch die from flu
This year only ZERO died from flu
Maybe 12.000 died from covid
Magic, God or frauds?
Just do the math
1+1=2
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Don't spoil it.
that is just a conspiracy theory all the evidence and western research shows that the virus was not man made.
stvdv
Veteran Member
So they tell
Some people lie
Even US presidents
China still sabotages research lab for starters
China officials publicly said "we will see how much fear Americans have when 10.000 die (2019...before covid was known)"
You are free to believe it's conspiracy, I believe it's man orchestrated. Maybe time will prove...
Western research? I think we all know where the virus came from......the head scientist at the Wuhan lab (Dr Shi Zhengli) had been doing research on bat to human viruses for years and had published papers on it. They call her "Bat Woman".....Where have you been?
They know that the original C19 is not a naturally evolved virus. Experts claimed that it looked "engineered".
A journalist with SKY News in Australia (Sharri Markson) reported...."Eminent virologist Jesse Bloom and Ralph Baric call for inquiry into possible lab leak. University of North Carolina’s Baric did Gain of Function research with Shi Zhengli in 2015. For him to say his research partner’s lab may have leaked SARS-CoV2 is significant."
I believe American health officials knew all about this "Gain of Function" research in Wuhan. Perhaps one day we will learn the truth.....?
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Lock downs masks washing hands and avoiding other people works against all viruses, flu included.
The difference is this has never been done before on such a large scale.
The expectation is that the flu will return this year as the restrictions and precautions are lifted.
We will soon know for sure.
My expectation is that it will return, but at a lower level because fewer people will be carrying the virus.
Others are saying that it will be worse than usual, but I do not see why that should be the case.
It will certainly be worse than last year, as there were very few cases at all.
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stvdv
Veteran Member
Wrong conclusion. If they would have been smart and had 1000 flu death (10% normal) they could have fooled me. But 0.00 (ZERO) was too obvious faking facts.
And they did a good job, you even like high covid numbers, even when proven faked, and don't want to see this fact
AND
we got away easy, unlike USA, UK. We did hardly have lock downs (once a short time), masks only short time, washing hands ditto
But all that time ZERO flu death (go figure.. 0.00)
They just messed up with faking numbers. They probably won't make such stupid mistake again, unless they are extremely stupid (having been told now)
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Zero is almost certainly wrong, But UK Hospitals also report almost no cases either, so at the very least there was a dramatic crash in the number of infections and deaths. The NHS is expecting the case figures to bounce back this winter flu season.
I expect some flue deaths have been subsumed into the Covid death figures, as the covid virus may also have been present.
These things can be very difficult to disentangle.