Curious question to the unvaccinated

[We Never Know]

@stvdv and the unvaccinated

They say if one isn't vaccinated they are selfish and don't care about saving the world.

Do you believe you are selfish (or thinking of oneself in regards to your health) at the expense other people's lives?

Does deaths play a factor(how do you view them)?

(Mind you, I'm speaking to those who choose not to vax not those who have had COVID and chose not to via natural immunity)

I've seen people say "If you don't take the vaccine its because you are selfish and not thinking of others"

When asked if they took the vaccine for others or theirself, they say for myself.

Isnt that the definition of selfish?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No. I understand what you guys mean logically but I disagree with it morally.

I still have no idea what you mean by this.

It seems like you're saying that you agree we're correct but you don't like it.

Which is a pet peeve especially when we can all control which threads we reply in especially when it wasn't originally in debate. I guess people have itchy trigger fingers. But honestly, I never heard the point of view from unvaccinated outside of trying to defend themselves.

IMO, it's a little of this and a little of that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've seen people say "If you don't take the vaccine its because you are selfish and not thinking of others"

When asked if they took the vaccine for others or theirself, they say for myself.

Isnt that the definition of selfish?

Personally, I don't call the anti-vaxxers "selfish." They're working against their own interests, so it's hard to call what they're doing selfish.

Generally, I use terms like "reckless" or "foolish."

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Do you realize that, with these 3 points:
You are still able to post on RF?
Covid hasn't been lethal to you

How is this even possible?
a) Vaccination
b) God's Grace
c) ?

Knowing this, I need not worry too much it seems, after all you are 30 years ahead of me

Though I like to be cauteous, I also like to not worry too much.

I was one of the early ones to be double vaccinated.
I wipe over everything that comes into the house
I avoid contact with other people as much as possible
I wears a mask when I am near people.

For the most part it seems God " if he takes an interest at all" helps those that make an effort to help them selves.

The rate in the UK for dying and being seriously ill from Covid is now made up almost 100% by the unvaccinated.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I still have no idea what you mean by this.

It seems like you're saying that you agree we're correct but you don't like it.



IMO, it's a little of this and a little of that.

I'm saying I understand where you come from (the logic of it) but in part I don't believe it's right (the morality of it).

Referring to this: Meaning, for example, I understand how certain behaviors help or hinder the spread of the pandemic but morally, making vaccine mandates and telling people they are contributing to the pandemic because of their choice (rather than just being unvaccinated) is what I disagree with.

I don't know. We can't really change cultural views of others.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Meaning, for example, I understand how certain behaviors help or hinder the spread of the pandemic but morally, making vaccine mandates and telling people they are contributing to the pandemic because of their choice (rather than just being unvaccinated) is what I disagree with.

But essentially, to backpaddle, this was supposed to ask unvaccinated people how they felt about the situation per question in the OP. All of this stuff is on two other threads.

In other words, although you know you are Wrong, you do not like to be told so.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In other words, although you know you are Wrong, you do not like to be told so.

How on earth did you come up with that assumption?

1. I understand how certain behaviors spread the pandemic

2. I don't believe it is right to mandate vaccines and telling people they contribute to the pandemic

3. The OP was to ask how the unvaccinated felt about what provaxxers tell them about spreading the virus and so forth.

How on earth did you get that conclusion?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

How on earth did you come up with that assumption?

1. I understand how certain behaviors spread the pandemic

2. I don't believe it is right to mandate vaccines and telling people they contribute to the pandemic

3. The OP was to ask how the unvaccinated felt about what provaxxers tell them about spreading the virus and so forth.

How on earth did you get that conclusion?

From your posts

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From your posts

Clarify your thoughts so I know your point.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm saying I understand where you come from (the logic of it) but in part I don't believe it's right (the morality of it).

Referring to this: Meaning, for example, I understand how certain behaviors help or hinder the spread of the pandemic but morally, making vaccine mandates and telling people they are contributing to the pandemic because of their choice (rather than just being unvaccinated) is what I disagree with.

I don't know. We can't really change cultural views of others.

Anyone who dislikes being told that they're contributing to the pandemic can address their concern easily: just stop contributing to the pandemic.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Anyone who dislikes being told that they're contributing to the pandemic can address their concern easily: just stop contributing to the pandemic.

You're saying this as if it is a fact that others can't deal with. It's an opinion but at the end, you got to go off of more stuff to accuse people of contributing to the pandemic more than just being unvaccinated.

It makes me wonder if everyone got vaccinated other than the exempt, would we eventually reach herd immunity? Meaning, would the exempt hold us back and what would we do if they had?

The other is since there are breakthroughs from vaccination effectives (as documented) and CDC is looking into it, then getting if majority of the world vaccinated we'd still not have herd immunity.

Maybe it's the idea some people believe in the 'common' good per their culture but believing in the idea doesn't make it happen overnight. I think if people had stats that said the pandemic will end at in X many years if we did Y with these Z methods people would have more information to make decisions off of.

 

[Deeje]

Many many millions of covid Vaccines have been given so far. No testing regime has ever tested more people than that.
It would be very surprising indeed if any further unknown side effects were to come to light.

They would not be surprising to many clinicians whose voices are not being heard in the public media. These voices are medical scientists too. Why are they being discounted?

It is pointless to worry about exceptionally rare unknowns, when the death toll, and so many cases of long covid, affect the non Vaccinated every day. The death toll is now made up of near to 100% from unvaccinated people.

Medical science tells us that getting vaccinated does not stop you getting Covid. It apparently gives you some antibodies to help you fight the infection, but it does not stop you transmitting it to others. Vaccinated people can still get it and spread it through viral shedding. Vaccination is not a magic bullet that will make this virus go away. No coronavirus can be eliminated by vaccination because of their constant mutations.....hence the yearly fluvax. This year’s jab will not prevent you getting next year’s strain. I don’t see Covid 19 going away any time soon.....vax or no vax. We will just learn to, live with it.....managing it is not the same as curing it.

However the choice is entirely your own. as is the risk.

Risk factors have to be evaluated based on information about the disease itself, its effects on people with various health conditions, the various treatments and the value of them, and the efficacy of existing drugs etc. before consent can be confidently given. My decision depends a great deal on where my information is sourced. Do you believe everything you hear or read in the media? I don't, and so I don't watch the news anymore, and a lot of other people are doing the same. It’s just depressing.

I research things as thoroughly as I can before I make any decision about anything. Informed consent is the only one worth making IMO, and I have been informed that no long term studies have been done on any of these current vaccines...especially the mRNA vaccines, which are a new technology. Many adverse outcomes are not being reported and censorship is the highest I have ever seen on all public and social media for anything this serious.

Vaccines usually need up to 10 years to be proven safe and effective in the long term, making them approved for public use. Some medical experts are telling us that they need more time to test because long term studies have not been done in the rush to get them out, therefore all who have received these vaccines are their virtual test cases. If long term effects surface later, no one can be held accountable for a bad outcome. They have indemnified themselves against any redress for unforeseen future effects. That raises red flags for me.

My decision is my own. People are being led to believe that if you get covid you are going to die, when that is not the truth.....only a very small percentage of people even need hospitalization....and often underlying health conditions play a major part in that. Nutritional experts suggest that our lifestyle and eating habits are more to blame for that than anything else because poor immune system function makes us more vulnerable. But the threat is real and I am not denying its seriousness.

I am not reckless...I respect this virus as its currently being dealt with it the world, but I choose to use other ways to keep myself and others from unnecessary risk, and whilst other studies are being done on the efficacy of immune system builders, I hope to wait for more information that still relies on science, but without the shaming and guilt tripping I see going on everywhere.

This is just my own personal opinion and position on the matter.

 

[stvdv]

I was one of the early ones to be double vaccinated.

Below is just my personal opinion as asked in the OP.

Good for you, still alive, so continue what you do, I would say (if asked)

I will be one of the last if at all to take this vaccine (Deo volente)

But I will tell those that want to take the vaccine "go for it",

And to those who doubt, I will tell "your life, your choice. Be honest, you don't do it for me, you only do it for yourself". I support either choice

For myself:
God, my Master told me that I only die if He wants. On RF Atheists always demand proof, so they should shut up and not impose vaccine on me now. They can have their proof that Sai Baba keeps His word, is Divine and watches over me

My health (immune system) is weak, no covid vaccine, never wash hands extra, exc. before eating, no mask unless government imposes, no corona restrictions unless government imposes, AND no problem yet

But if Sai Baba tells me to take the vaccination then I take it without even a second thought. But till now, I feel better than before, and have not worried even 1 second about corona this year (that I am aware of).

I trust God 100%, Big Pharma not so much

Note: Sai Baba did give me ancient alternatives to protect me from covid trouble. So, I also believe in "do your best, and God will do the rest"
@stvdvRFcovid

 

[stvdv]

Medical science tells us that getting vaccinated does not stop you getting Covid. It apparently gives you some antibodies to help you fight the infection, but it does not stop you transmitting it to others

IMO:
That's correct

And if my immune system is down, no amount of vaccine will safe me. Hence improving my immune system is an important first step in staying alive

Many adverse outcomes are not being reported and censorship is the highest I have ever seen on all public and social media for anything this serious.

Proof 1

Vaccines usually need up to 10 years to be proven safe and effective in the long term,

Proof 2

If long term effects surface later, no one can be held accountable for a bad outcome. They have indemnified themselves against any redress for unforeseen future effects. That raises red flags for me.

Proof 3

People are being led to believe that if you get covid you are going to die, when that is not the truth.....only a very small percentage of people even need hospitalization....and often underlying health conditions play a major part in that

Proof 4

 

[stvdv]

For the most part it seems God " if he takes an interest at all"

Love is God. How could Love not take interest

helps those that make an effort to help them selves.

Self Effort is one of the main pillars given to man to succeed in his goals

 

[stvdv]

The rate in the UK for dying and being seriously ill from Covid is now made up almost 100% by the unvaccinated

Isn't that great news?
a) Proof 1 = vaxxers need not worry for themselves
b) Proof 2 = anti-vaxxers solve the problem that vaxxers have with anti-vaxxers

Soon all anti-vaxxers are dead, assuming your info is correct. And no vaxxers die. Hence no problems left it seems to me

But I don't blindly trust this "100" number to be correct.

 

[stvdv]

The rate in the UK for dying and being seriously ill from Covid is now made up almost 100% by the unvaccinated

Isn't that great news?

So, vaxxers can stop "bugging anti-vaxxers from now on to get vaccinated" AND telling them or implying they are killing others AND other baseless claims proven wrong by your statistics (they only kill themselves)

 

[SomeRandom]

Isn't that great news?

So, vaxxers can stop "bugging anti-vaxxers from now on to get vaccinated" AND telling them or implying they are killing others AND other baseless claims proven wrong by your statistics (they only kill themselves)

Umm no. Because the implication is clearly that the UK population has gotten to the point where the only viable hosts for the virus are made up of those still unvaccinated. That usually happens when herd immunity is reached for literally any virus we vaccinate for. All vaccines have to take into account a percentage who can’t vaccinate for medical reasons. Those folks generally rely on herd immunity to stop or slow down a virus before it reaches them. However if the percentage of the unvaccinated is a lot higher than the vaccine can protect against, then the vaccines overall may be weakened due to the virus outmutating it, basically. So those poor people dying in the hospital, could still potentially undo the vaccine. Not saying it’s a given, but the precedent has been set (measles, mumps, chicken pox etc making a comeback when they were virtually eradicated from humans. Specifically because people chose not to vaccinate, thats why scientists don’t like the anti vaxx movement.)

I’m not sure why people are acting like this is the first time objection to a vaccine can have consequences for society. But whatever. I guess that’s just how humans are.

 

[Deeje]

If however, everyone gets vaccinated, we can eradicate Covid, and then there would be no need for future booster shots. It seems eradicating it would be the best approach for us collectively as the human species. Wouldn't you think?

Medical experts tell us that no coronavirus can be eradicated otherwise they would have done so by now with all the other coronaviruses that invade our bodies and make us lose days off work feeling miserable.

When a coronavirus leads to other infections like pneumonia.....then people die. This particular virus can damage the lungs, leading to long term problems. The vaccinations currently available will never eliminate it however....that is a fact. Only a strong immune system can deal with viruses effectively.
It is hoped that the vaccines will help...but time will tell. There is still so much that they don’t know about this virus, probably because it is engineered by humans, created in a lab rather than by ‘nature’.

What makes us think that is the science. It is different. Here's a link to help bring some credible knowledge to this.

Similarities and Differences between Flu and COVID-19

The only way for a body to fight any virus is a strong immune system. But unfortunately, most people on earth today do not have an optimum diet to support a strong immune system, especially in the West where we basically have no excuse to make poor dietary choices. Poor diet and low intake of necessary vitamins and minerals will result in a poor functioning immune system, which I am sure is a prime factor in how people respond to this current outbreak, no matter where they live. Underlying health issues also play a large role in Covid deaths. Strengthening our immune system is something we can do. If people are getting colds and flu several times a year, then their immune function needs attention. Do the medical professionals tell us this? Or do we just get told to take paracetamol and drink plenty of fluids and get some bed rest?

When are we actually told to take responsibility for our own health in a preventative way?...and if we are, do we follow that advice? How much of our ill health is our own fault?

As with all important matters, it behooves all of us to look to the experts, not talk show hosts pulling fictions and conspiracy theories out of their butts. The latter results in death.

I have looked carefully at what the “experts” have to say....I choose to listen to all of them because they all have the same qualifications. Listening to only one side is foolish IMO, mainly because of the huge amount of profit generated by the vaccines....all poorly tested according to the current industry standards themselves. I have reservations but they are mine. They may not be yours.
I do not tell others not to do whatever their own choice dictates. That is for them to decide. I keep an open mind whilst holding well founded skepticism and a desire not to treat this virus lightly.......time will hopefully tell us whether we have made the right choices....but my choices are mine to make for the present.

 

[Sand Dancer]

It is only anti-social if you wilfully refuse to be vaccinated for no good reason.

Welcome to our (USA) world.