Darwin's Illusion

[Dan From Smithville]

To your questions:
1. Yes
2. Impossible

Funny Frube/Winner Frube! It's a double threat!

 

[Dan From Smithville]

When I read threads like this and what the arguments have become, I am tempted to present the subject matter in a more palatable, accessible form so that it might be more readily understood by those that are clearly not experts in biology or any science that I can determine. But then, I recall that it has been tried many times before and it just ends back here were birds are still birds, beavers eat fish and radiometric dating is wrong cause I don't like the results.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is the beauty of this country, we have a Constitution that allows us to reject anything for no good reason at all. Or for any reason we come up with out of a desperation to maintain our personal ideologies that have no proof what-so-ever. After all, some see the right to an opinion as validation that their opinion is on an equal footing with the informed opinions of experts who spent entire lifetimes studying the things that are rejected with a wave of the hand by the less informed.

I love this country and I respect your patriotism in exercising your rights.

P.S. I haven't got the first clue what losing DNA through crossbreeding species even means. But what the heck, it's as good a reason to reject science as arbitrarily deciding just not to agree with radiometric dating by empty dismissal.

Having dismissed all of this, I will miss seeing your posts about how birds are still birds, kangaroos are still kangaroos and everything is still what it was before.

I respect and love Jesus first.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is the beauty of this country, we have a Constitution that allows us to reject anything for no good reason at all. Or for any reason we come up with out of a desperation to maintain our personal ideologies that have no proof what-so-ever. After all, some see the right to an opinion as validation that their opinion is on an equal footing with the informed opinions of experts who spent entire lifetimes studying the things that are rejected with a wave of the hand by the less informed.

I love this country and I respect your patriotism in exercising your rights.

P.S. I haven't got the first clue what losing DNA through crossbreeding species even means. But what the heck, it's as good a reason to reject science as arbitrarily deciding just not to agree with radiometric dating by empty dismissal.

Having dismissed all of this, I will miss seeing your posts about how birds are still birds, kangaroos are still kangaroos and everything is still what it was before.

You keep saying I reject science. i do not. From what I have found speaking to those more educated in these things than I am is that soil leaches into fossils and soil can shift. I won't say any more right now. Yes, bugs remain bugs and gorillas remain gorillas right now.

 

[John53]

It is interesting to watch a hole get dug, then double and dig some more. I have no idea what the similarity of housecat DNA is in relation to any other animal. Or plant for that matter. If wanted to know, I would look it up.

I got curious about wabbit DNA and it's good news "Rabbit, a member of the Lagomorpha order, is the closest phylogenetic relative to humans, next to primates. It possesses greater acceptability as a laboratory mammal than primates in terms of husbandry, breeding ease, cost effectiveness, and legal ethical conveniences."

Seems it's ok to experiment on you.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I asked, "Can you connect your comment to mine?" and that was your response. Why are you discussing tools? What did I write that caused you to give me that answer?

You and I aren't on the same page here. I think we know many if not all the causes of speciation now.

And this relates to our discussion how? We were talking about the advent of antiseptic technique in surgery.


Why would you characterize them like that? They knew what they knew, and they knew that more would be discovered. I'm a retired physician. I never thought that we were done learning. We learned new things while I was practicing medicine. Many new diseases - Legionnaires, toxic shock, Lyme, HIV. And many new therapies. Much has been learned about aging. But yeah, doctors take a lot of ribbing. There was a cartoon of an old white-haired guy walking on a cloud wearing surgical scrubs with the caption, "That's God. He thinks he's a doctor." And another with a man with a tambourine head at a party correcting a guest, "That's Dr. Tambourine Man now."

There was no concept of instruments being "dirty" before there was a germ theory of disease (Koch, Pasteur), which arrived in the second half of the nineteenth century. Thereafter, Semmelweis demonstrated the benefit of hand washing.

Here's another of your unsubstantiated claims. By now, you should know the fate of these. If you won't make a compelling, evidenced argument, you won't change any minds except those willing to believe with less. I am not one of them.

I don't know what your beliefs are beyond a few, and they don't need dismantling. Are you familiar with Hitchens' Razor? "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." I wish you would try to assimilate that. More unsupported claims will result in the same, so why bother with them?

I don't need to falsify unsupported claims, although I have rebutted a few. You'd need to support them first.

I have always enjoyed reading the work that was carried out by Dr. John Snow in 1850's London. Clearly, he did not think that doctors knew everything and a good thing too. His pioneering studies formed the basis of modern epidemiology, helped fight cholera in England and given us insight and tools to fight pandemics in modern times.

I'm not sure I understand the thinking that wrongly condemns early successes in science as examples of scientism in action holding back progress and worshiping ignorance through the actions of some imagined conspiracy theory of self-satisfied scientists.

It might help if some evidence was presented to defend such an idea to understand where the person promoting it went wrong, but there isn't even an offer of that.

Just a bunch of grenades lobbed at an imaginary dragon without even pulling the pins.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I got curious about wabbit DNA and it's good news "Rabbit, a member of the Lagomorpha order, is the closest phylogenetic relative to humans, next to primates. It possesses greater acceptability as a laboratory mammal than primates in terms of husbandry, breeding ease, cost effectiveness, and legal ethical conveniences."

Seems it's ok to experiment on you.

Of course, we don't look as much like humans, so cut us up, poke us with needles, shave us and rub nasty things on our skin. It's all ethical. At least you don't sacrifice us every time one of you gets pregnant now. Those were dark times in rabbit history.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You keep saying I reject science. i do not. From what I have found speaking to those more educated in these things than I am is that soil leaches into fossils and soil can shift. I won't say any more right now. Yes, bugs remain bugs and gorillas remain gorillas right now.

I have no idea what else to discuss with you. Do you like auto racing? What are your thoughts on muscle cars?

 

[John53]

Of course, we don't look as much like humans, so cut us up, poke us with needles, shave us and rub nasty things on our skin. It's all ethical. At least you don't sacrifice us every time one of you gets pregnant now. Those were dark times in rabbit history.

Sucks to be a rabbit. All those human qualities and tasty!

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I got curious about wabbit DNA and it's good news "Rabbit, a member of the Lagomorpha order, is the closest phylogenetic relative to humans, next to primates. It possesses greater acceptability as a laboratory mammal than primates in terms of husbandry, breeding ease, cost effectiveness, and legal ethical conveniences."

Seems it's ok to experiment on you.

We're biding our time. One day we'll declare duck season on everybody.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Sucks to be a rabbit. All those human qualities and tasty!

I gotta agree with you about us being tasty.

 

[YoursTrue]

When I read threads like this and what the arguments have become, I am tempted to present the subject matter in a more palatable, accessible form so that it might be more readily understood by those that are clearly not experts in biology or any science that I can determine. But then, I recall that it has been tried many times before and it just ends back here were birds are still birds, beavers eat fish and radiometric dating is wrong cause I don't like the results.

The reason I entered into these discussions is to see how those think and reason who believe in the process of evolution.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Sucks to be a rabbit. All those human qualities and tasty!

I wonder how similar housecat and rabbit DNA are. Care to dig a hole with me and double down?

 

[John53]

Of course, we don't look as much like humans, so cut us up, poke us with needles, shave us and rub nasty things on our skin. It's all ethical. At least you don't sacrifice us every time one of you gets pregnant now. Those were dark times in rabbit history.

I forgot all about the "rabbit died test". I used to hear it on TV but was never sure what it meant. Anyway turns out the rabbit died either way because they had to dissect the ovaries.

 

[John53]

I wonder how similar housecat and rabbit DNA are. Care to dig a hole with me and double down?

A quick search doesn't reveal much, this is the best I could do...

The genetic makeup of rabbits and cats further proves the fact that these animals are not related. They have a different about of chromosomes. Cats have 38-40 Chromosomes whilst rabbits have 44. Not only are the number of chromosomes different but the genetic structure and makeup are quite different as each chromosome contains a specific set of genes.

They really are separate branches on the tree of life.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I forgot all about the "rabbit died test". I used to hear it on TV but was never sure what it meant. Anyway turns out the rabbit died either way because they had to dissect the ovaries.

I'm aware of it mostly as an historical footnote, since modern tests were available when I had any notion to take notice. Mice and frogs were also used for tests like that at one time or another.

 

[John53]

I'm aware of it mostly as an historical footnote, since modern tests were available when I had any notion to take notice. Mice and frogs were also used for tests like that at one time or another.

We are a diabolical species. Kill a few small animals or wait a couple of months and you'll be fairly certain you're pregnant.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

A quick search doesn't reveal much, this is the best I could do...

The genetic makeup of rabbits and cats further proves the fact that these animals are not related. They have a different about of chromosomes. Cats have 38-40 Chromosomes whilst rabbits have 44. Not only are the number of chromosomes different but the genetic structure and makeup are quite different as each chromosome contains a specific set of genes.

They really are separate branches on the tree of life.

The best branch I'd say.

I was thinking about that statement roughly paraphrased as "millions of years passed chimpanzees". That isn't accurate. We evolved along with chimpanzees. What we are passed by millions of years is the divergence that took place leading to humans and chimpanzees.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

We are a diabolical species. Kill a few small animals or wait a couple of months and you'll be fairly certain you're pregnant.

If you ignore the details and the science behind it, and don't really understand even the basics of biology, it sounds like some sort of witch craft or voodoo when you put it that way. No wonder the creationists get all bent out of shape about science from such a limited perspective.

 

[John53]

The best branch I'd say.

I was thinking about that statement roughly paraphrased as "millions of years passed chimpanzees". That isn't accurate. We evolved along with chimpanzees. What we are passed by millions of years is the divergence that took place leading to humans and chimpanzees.

Yup. I think it would be fair to say that evolution only stops at extinction.