Darwin's Illusion

[Dan From Smithville]

Random and unpredictable are synonyms in my brain. I understand your point (I think) but it seems a touch pedantic.

Humans incur between 100 and 200 mutations per individual per generation. I couldn't predict which person is going to get what mutation.

However, there are some regions of the genome more susceptible to mutation and mutations that are immediately lethal.

I'm not sure I'm following, but if this regards directed mutation, that has not been demonstrated and what has been observed has been shown to be the results of selection.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Does it help that i dont eat them?

Chicken. I mean chicken?

 

[Audie]

Chicken. I mean chicken?

There's some wild and domestic cross chickens to be
seen around S'pore. The retic pythons probably eat some.

But I'm vegetarian

 

[Dan From Smithville]

There's some wild and domestic cross chickens to be
seen around S'pore. The retic pythons probably eat some.

But I'm vegetarian

I think I knew that. You may have mentioned it before.

I live with about 15 chickens. Or they live outside and I live inside. Far as you know.

They're very amusing. At least so long as you are not some wandering insect. Then they are quite fierce.

They are not for eating.

 

[Audie]

I think I knew that. You may have mentioned it before.

I live with about 15 chickens. Or they live outside and I live inside. Far as you know.

They're very amusing. At least so long as you are not some wandering insect. Then they are quite fierce.

They are not for eating.

Good. Chickens are too good an animal
to be treated so badly by people.

 

[John53]

Your previous responses were confusing at best.

Probably, being Australian I barely have a grasp on the English language.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Good. Chickens are too good an animal
to be treated so badly by people.

They are pretty entertaining and quite showy.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Probably, being Australian I barely have a grasp on the English language.

I couldn't get Google translate to make that out. What it ended up with was "my hovercraft is full of eels". Pretty sure that isn't correct.

 

[John53]

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you claiming that organisms direct mutations that are beneficial to anticipated selection?

I'm completely lost, they're unpredictable but not random. I'm unsure what the difference would be. I just know leucistic birds are a rare sight and I've driven 100's of kilometres to see them or to be more accurate, driven hundreds of kilometres not to see them and have a few people tell me it was here yesterday.

However in captivity there is lots of examples. That tells me it's not usually beneficial. I could be wrong.

Not my photo but they can be quite beautiful....

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Good. Chickens are too good an animal
to be treated so badly by people.

It would be difficult for me to eat something that I talk to daily. The ladies are very fond of meal worms and the little silky rooster is truly fun to watch. He stomps around in front of the hens. Many of them are much to big for him to properly court, but he tries. He thinks I have it in for him, but I really like him and I like messing with him.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I'm completely lost, they're unpredictable but not random. I'm unsure what the difference would be. I just know leucistic birds are a rare sight and I've driven 100's of kilometres to see them or to be more accurate, driven hundreds of kilometres not to see them and have a few people tell me it was here yesterday.

However in captivity there is lots of examples. That tells me it's not usually beneficial. I could be wrong.

Not my photo but they can be quite beautiful....

View attachment 79993

It would be chance that it was of benefit. Oh, oh. More than likely it would either be neutral or detrimental. The bird evolved with a certain color pattern and remove the pattern but not the other co-evolved traits and I would say there was a greater chance that it wouldn't help much.

They are very attractive.

When I was child, the family often spent time at a resort on a local river, the Jack's Fork. Once during a stay, we watched a pale crow along the river. You probably know they are normally all black. We thought albino and it may have been. It wasn't white so much as pale as I recall, but that was 40 plus years ago.

 

[John53]

Does it help that i dont eat them?

I eat them but I despise the chicken industry, which makes me an A grade hypocrite.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I'm completely lost, they're unpredictable but not random. I'm unsure what the difference would be. I just know leucistic birds are a rare sight and I've driven 100's of kilometres to see them or to be more accurate, driven hundreds of kilometres not to see them and have a few people tell me it was here yesterday.

However in captivity there is lots of examples. That tells me it's not usually beneficial. I could be wrong.

Not my photo but they can be quite beautiful....

View attachment 79993

You may find this article from J. of Avian Biol. interesting. I only read the abstract, but it looks good.

Factors associated with leucism in the common blackbird Turdus merula.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/jav.01778

 

[John53]

It would be chance that it was of benefit. Oh, oh. More than likely it would either be neutral or detrimental. The bird evolved with a certain color pattern and remove the pattern but not the other co-evolved traits and I would say there was a greater chance that it wouldn't help much.

They are very attractive.

When I was child, the family often spent time at a resort on a local river, the Jack's Fork. Once during a stay, we watched a pale crow along the river. You probably know they are normally all black. We thought albino and it may have been. It wasn't white so much as pale as I recall, but that was 40 plus years ago.

Albinos are very rare, I've seen pictures of an albino Kookaburra but it has been captured and raised in captivity after being booted from the nest. I've heard true albino critters have problems caused by the sun.

 

[John53]

You may find this article from J. of Avian Biol. interesting. I only read the abstract, but it looks good.

Factors associated with leucism in the common blackbird Turdus merula.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/jav.01778

Sounds interesting, I shall read through it while my house is being slowly destroyed around me. Another $1,000 today because the dishwasher is leaking and because it's 10 years old they can't get parts for it. Oh well.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I eat them but I despise the chicken industry, which makes me an A grade hypocrite.

I don't know where it is today, but some years ago, there was a small effort to promote more humane treatment and conditions in chicken farming. I saw a report of operation that was very successful at that as well as increasing hygiene in the process. The butchering using the methods they employed resulted in a marked reduction in colony forming units in the carcasses.

I eat chicken as well and am also not fond of the more industrialized practices of production.

Over the last few years I've been entertaining the idea of reducing my meat consumption. For about two years, I reduced it markedly, but lost the rhythm. My more carnivorous nature has me near where I had been previously.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Sounds interesting, I shall read through it while my house is being slowly destroyed around me. Another $1,000 today because the dishwasher is leaking and because it's 10 years old they can't get parts for it. Oh well.

Even in US dollars that is a bite.

I'm never really sure how you compare the economics of costs between countries.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Albinos are very rare, I've seen pictures of an albino Kookaburra but it has been captured and raised in captivity after being booted from the nest. I've heard true albino critters have problems caused by the sun.

It is quite rare and sunburn and damage to the eyes can be a real problem. Albinism, unlike leucism effects eye pigment.

I've seen numerous examples of amelanism and other color variations in reptiles, but I don't know much about other groups. Some reptiles, like the California kingsnake are highly variable in pattern and color. Likely due to recent evolution where selection has not fully fixed a type in the species.

 

[Audie]

I eat them but I despise the chicken industry, which makes me an A grade hypocrite.

It kind of can't be helped.

I'm the same about fish

My favorite bird in Hong Kong btw is the black kite.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It kind of can't be helped.

I'm the same about fish

My favorite bird in Hong Kong btw is the black kite.

@John53 and I were recently discussing kites. I know someone that had three Mississippi kites making regular appearances near his home and I've never knowingly seen a kite in the wild. I wasn't able to get to the friends house in time to see them.