Deadbeat Dads

[Falvlun]

We could just turn this sentiment that sex implies an acceptance of potential parenthood around and say that if a woman wanted a faithful father she should have selected who to sleep with better. Saying that a man is responsible for the decision another makes is just unethical. Worse still are the implications in this thread that he should just shut up and "man up."

Huh? No, he should be 50% responsible for the care of the child he 50% helped to create. You are the only one suggesting that someone (the women) should be responsible for someone else's (the man's) actions. And as you stated, that's just unethical.

 

[Draka]

We could just turn this sentiment that sex implies an acceptance of potential parenthood around and say that if a woman wanted a faithful father she should have selected who to sleep with better. Saying that a man is responsible for the decision another makes is just unethical. Worse still are the implications in this thread that he should just shut up and "man up."

The fact of the matter is women are expecting all the freedoms retained from reproductive rights but none of the responsibility.

Divorce is a separate matter. All of the anecdotes offered thus far have been about marriage or situations where a child was consented to and then abandoned. Those are separate issues.

How is the man responsible for anything other than the decision he made? He decided to have sex with a woman. Pregnancy is a possible outcome to sex. If a woman becomes pregnant then he is 50% responsible for that pregnancy and the child beget of that pregnancy. That is the choice HE takes when HE decides to have sex with a woman. If she chooses to have an abortion and end a pregnancy then his 50% responsibility towards any possible child is ended, but she is not mandated to do such just to alleviate HIS responsibilities.

Furthermore, since when do women not take reproductive responsibility? Most women, first off, do not have abortions nor even consider abortion when they find out they are pregnant. Secondly, for many who do seek one, abortion may be considered the best way to take responsibility. Not to mention that often times, in those cases, the decision to abort is usually made as a couple. Regardless of what stereotypes may be out there, it's not like there are just tons of college age girls running around getting knocked up constantly and just running to the clinic to get abortions all the time.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

First and formost I know there are emotional women here who have experienced legit deadbeat men, however this is far and few in between. You guys can spend countless paragraphs saying "well men do this, men do that..." The fact remains is women need to be smarter. Every guy isn't putting up a smoke screen and perpatrating as if he is a good guy. There are females that are scandalous and coniving, and are interested only to trap men. But I guess its still not the woman's fault that she has an alterior motive. A lot of women do. I see it at my university.

"Oh I wanna have his babies since he is going in the draft."

"Oh you dont want kids? Well I must warn you I stop taking my pills cause I want kids?

There are women who purposefully trap men whether its poking holes in condoms or threatening men with court there are women who do this. Why do you ladies hold other women exempt?

 

[Mr. Skittles]

It's not about complaining, Skittles. Regardless of whether the woman "should have known better" or not, if you help make a baby, the responsibility for that kid is 50% yours. Our biology and society commonly allow men to skirt their fair share of that responsibility. It is simply a sign of this imbalance that the answer to men not putting in their dues isn't a call to men to step up to the plate, but to once again, place the responsibility back on the women. In fact, the stuff you shared about the call-ins disparages women who attempt to get the males to be responsible: Women are greedy, vindictive, irresponsible, stupid, and apparently completely unreasonable for expecting that the person who contributed 50% of the creating of that child should also fork over 50% of the support.

That is such a warped, and unfortunately and tragically, common way of looking at these things.

Jesus.....Another one I have to spell it out for...

None of the fathers in the podcast were complaininy about financial support. They were complaining about vindictive mother who use court as a threat because of arbitrary means. For example if I argue with my ex, who is the mother of my child she threatens me with child support because of a stupid argument. This was the gist of the men who phoned in. Many women fall for idiots. That is plane as day. Lyekis is saying to women that don't filter the idiots shouldn't complain about deadbeats.

For example. If I complain about women I meet and how most women treat me bad only to be told that the women I meet have personality issues who's fault is it that I run into women who treat me bad? Mine. I make the choice to get emotionally attached and wrapped up in an individual who is not good for me

 

[idav]

Yes...
But what does that have to do with dead beat dads?

Just finger pointing. Money is a big part of being a dead beat but the dad part is much more. Should mothers that can't support their kids be considered deadbeats? Not being able to pay your bills isn't really something to throw in someones face. Just all depends on how you wanna look at it and depends on the individual parents.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

Just finger pointing. Money is a big part of being a dead beat but the dad part is much more. Should mothers that can't support their kids be considered deadbeats? Not being able to pay your bills isn't really something to throw in someones face. Just all depends on how you wanna look at it and depends on the individual parents.

What do you mean? Mothers can't be deadbeats! Mothers give life to children, only men can be deadbeats. Remember, when a man bails on his kid its his fault, even if the mother chose a good for nothing man.

 

[Draka]

Ok, if I poke the hornets' nest, so be it.

Mr. Skittles, I don't recall anyone here saying that women can't be deadbeat parents as well. Either gender can be lax as parents, but let's face it shall we? Statistically the "deadbeats" do tend to fall more in the category of fathers than in mothers. That's not to say that some mothers can't be complete losers and shouldn't even have wombs to begin with. I think we've all met women like that. We've also all met wonderful men who outshine their counterparts in the parenthood department as well. Doesn't change the general statistics though now does it? Now, I know you tend to like to get your hate on for women in general, your post history has shown that quite well. No use in denying that one. I don't know what your purpose is in accusing any woman who has anything to say on this subject of being "emotional" though. I think there have been several women here, myself included, who have spoken very calmly and rationally on the matter. In fact, I haven't found anything to get "emotional" about here at all. I do wonder though, just what is your problem?

Oh, and how many mind readers and fortune tellers do you know anyway? I was just wondering as you seem to have this idea that someone can foresee the future coming with someone before they even get involved with them. That they should know how a relationship is going to play out beforehand so that they never get involved with them. to my knowledge...that is easier said than done. Unless you have some crystal ball that I am not aware of.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

Ok, if I poke the hornets' nest, so be it.

Mr. Skittles, I don't recall anyone here saying that women can't be deadbeat parents as well. Either gender can be lax as parents, but let's face it shall we? Statistically the "deadbeats" do tend to fall more in the category of fathers than in mothers. That's not to say that some mothers can't be complete losers and shouldn't even have wombs to begin with. I think we've all met women like that. We've also all met wonderful men who outshine their counterparts in the parenthood department as well. Doesn't change the general statistics though now does it? Now, I know you tend to like to get your hate on for women in general, your post history has shown that quite well. No use in denying that one. I don't know what your purpose is in accusing any woman who has anything to say on this subject of being "emotional" though. I think there have been several women here, myself included, who have spoken very calmly and rationally on the matter. In fact, I haven't found anything to get "emotional" about here at all. I do wonder though, just what is your problem?

Oh, and how many mind readers and fortune tellers do you know anyway? I was just wondering as you seem to have this idea that someone can foresee the future coming with someone before they even get involved with them. That they should know how a relationship is going to play out beforehand so that they never get involved with them. to my knowledge...that is easier said than done. Unless you have some crystal ball that I am not aware of.

Ah yes but the nest you poked wasn't a hornets nest it was killer bees.....

Allow me to put you in your place but I'll do this in numerical order so you'll get it.

1) My post history regardless how you perceived it, is what your perceive as a personality trait here, not in real life. I say that cause you don't know my demeanor outside this website. For all you know I could be saying stuff just to get a rise out of people

2) If I truly hated women (not to be confused with being misogynistic) I'd be gay. Not metrosexual nor bisexual nor asexual.

3) My critique of women is meant to be healthy since there is obviously a female bias here. Men need a voice and shouldn't be scared to voice it. I sense there are a lot of men here scared to show a healthy critique of women here. Not me. Women need to see the other viewpoint through the eyes of men who experience what they experience.

4) The point of this thread was not mine. It was an idea from a podcast from a guy who is a multi-millionare who makes a living chastising women. The show was about Gabby Douglas who chastised her dad who happens to be in the national guard not some burger flipping low life (no offense to anyone who actually flips burgers).

5) Yes nobody said there aren't deadbeat moms but if you actually read between the lines in my response to that individual (which was not even addressed to you) you'd realize I was being facetious not serious. Sorry you don't get humor. Oooops!

6) Regardless whether it was said, the many responses I read implied "men, men, men," "money, money, money," "responsibility, responsibility, responsibility." So the implication is there that the discussion is more about men rather than mutual responsibility. Yes one or two people may have said it, but this thread is unanimously turning into men rather than what I had intended to be.

Now that I have decimated your viewpoint numerically allow me to educate you on what I truly believe. As a healthcare worker I see a socially uneven system which favors women. I have seen with my two eyes and heard with my two ears women take advantage of men and the judicial system. I have seen men try hard to support their kids with little to no income yet their ex takes them to the cleaners and the mother spending the money to get her hair and nails done with the child support (no I didn't physically witness this but if your hair and nail changes at every court proceeding while telling the judge your a struggling single parent you get the hint).

Sorry hun, I don't deal with statistics, I deal with real life. I would like to consider myself as an advocate of real men who have no voice in a system that favors women especially women who are not truly fit parents. Just because a woman has a vagina does not mean she is a fit parent however society especially this thread and especially you seems to draw this conclusion. So while your busy making speculations about me take time to read and not assume so much.

Excuse me while I call 911 I think my swarm stung you one too many times.

 

[Draka]

Ah yes but the nest you poked wasn't a hornets nest it was killer bees.....

Allow me to put you in your place but I'll do this in numerical order so you'll get it.

1) My post history regardless how you perceived it, is what your perceive as a personality trait here, not in real life. I say that cause you don't know my demeanor outside this website. For all you know I could be saying stuff just to get a rise out of people

2) If I truly hated women (not to be confused with being misogynistic) I'd be gay. Not metrosexual nor bisexual nor asexual.

3) My critique of women is meant to be healthy since there is obviously a female bias here. Men need a voice and shouldn't be scared to voice it. I sense there are a lot of men here scared to show a healthy critique of women here. Not me. Women need to see the other viewpoint through the eyes of men who experience what they experience.

4) The point of this thread was not mine. It was an idea from a podcast from a guy who is a multi-millionare who makes a living chastising women. The show was about Gabby Douglas who chastised her dad who happens to be in the national guard not some burger flipping low life (no offense to anyone who actually flips burgers).

5) Yes nobody said there aren't deadbeat moms but if you actually read between the lines in my response to that individual (which was not even addressed to you) you'd realize I was being facetious not serious. Sorry you don't get humor. Oooops!

6) Regardless whether it was said, the many responses I read implied "men, men, men," "money, money, money," "responsibility, responsibility, responsibility." So the implication is there that the discussion is more about men rather than mutual responsibility. Yes one or two people may have said it, but this thread is unanimously turning into men rather than what I had intended to be.

Now that I have decimated your viewpoint numerically allow me to educate you on what I truly believe. As a healthcare worker I see a socially uneven system which favors women. I have seen with my two eyes and heard with my two ears women take advantage of men and the judicial system. I have seen men try hard to support their kids with little to no income yet their ex takes them to the cleaners and the mother spending the mother get her hair and nails done with the child support (no I didn't physically witness this but if your hair and nail changes at every court proceeding while telling the judge your a struggling single parent you get the hint).

Sorry hun, I don't deal with statistics, I deal with real life. I would like to consider myself as an advocate of real men who have no voice in a system that favors women especially women who are not truly fit parents. Just because a woman has a vagina does not mean she is a fit parent however society especially this thread and especially you seems to draw this conclusion. So while your busy making speculations about me take time to read and not assume so much.

Excuse me while I call 911 I think my swarm stung you one too many times.

I think you can put down the phone, I don't think one thing stung me at all. I have yet to see a gnat, let alone a killer bee.

Point. You do say a lot of very misogynistic things on this forum (which is what I meant by "get your hate on"). You come off as crass and rude and if that's how you want to present yourself here then so be it.

Point. There are plenty of men here and they do have a voice. Just because many of them don't say what you say doesn't mean they are too afraid to say it, it just may mean that they don't agree with you. Stranger things have happened you know. There just may be men in the world that don't agree with you. Taste it, roll it around in your mouth a little and see if you can handle that.

Point. I can tell the difference between what is serious and what is not. However, your little comment had enough of your usual bite to it to warrant noticing. I do have a sense of humor, if it was funny, I would have laughed. It wasn't funny, perhaps it is your sense of humor which is off.

Now, if you can climb down off your high horse for just one second long enough to read this much, I do know that the justice system does have its flaws when it comes to custody and the like when it comes to men. I have seen good friends of mine get railroaded and watched them stand by and be lucky to get visitation while their exes have automatically gotten custody just because they are the mothers even though the fathers were better parents. This is something that does need remedied. However, denying the problem that exists of there being fathers out there that don't have anything to do with their children, that don't show up for visits, that don't send support, that don't show up for school pageants and so on and so forth isn't going to fix it. Both fronts need to be fixed. Ignoring one by pointing at the other doesn't work. Blaming women in general for the failings of men and vice versa doesn't work. If you think it does then you are part of the problem, certainly not the solution.

Now, do you need help finding wherever you sent those bees?

 

[Mr. Skittles]

I think you can put down the phone, I don't think one thing stung me at all. I have yet to see a gnat, let alone a killer bee.

Point. You do say a lot of very misogynistic things on this forum (which is what I meant by "get your hate on"). You come off as crass and rude and if that's how you want to present yourself here then so be it.

Point. There are plenty of men here and they do have a voice. Just because many of them don't say what you say doesn't mean they are too afraid to say it, it just may mean that they don't agree with you. Stranger things have happened you know. There just may be men in the world that don't agree with you. Taste it, roll it around in your mouth a little and see if you can handle that.

Point. I can tell the difference between what is serious and what is not. However, your little comment had enough of your usual bite to it to warrant noticing. I do have a sense of humor, if it was funny, I would have laughed. It wasn't funny, perhaps it is your sense of humor which is off.

Now, if you can climb down off your high horse for just one second long enough to read this much, I do know that the justice system does have its flaws when it comes to custody and the like when it comes to men. I have seen good friends of mine get railroaded and watched them stand by and be lucky to get visitation while their exes have automatically gotten custody just because they are the mothers even though the fathers were better parents. This is something that does need remedied. However, denying the problem that exists of there being fathers out there that don't have anything to do with their children, that don't show up for visits, that don't send support, that don't show up for school pageants and so on and so forth isn't going to fix it. Both fronts need to be fixed. Ignoring one by pointing at the other doesn't work. Blaming women in general for the failings of men and vice versa doesn't work. If you think it does then you are part of the problem, certainly not the solution.

Now, do you need help finding wherever you sent those bees?

I just skimmed through your response....Nothing much to read.

As far as your perception, ah well, it really doesn't phase me much because this is what you perceive of my username, not the person behind it. In actuality I am a decent guy if need be, I'd give you the shirt off my back but that is an irrelevant piece of information. Your the one uptight about what I say. Your the one writing block paragraphs to me as if I am going to change my tone. As long as I am in now way violating the forum rules Your the one getting all emotional (I feel a sexist joke coming on).

You said gnat huh? Well keep at it writing block paragraphs you non-emotional blogger you....lol

 

[Rakhel]

Gays hate women?


That's a new one for me.

 

[McBell]

What do you mean? Mothers can't be deadbeats! Mothers give life to children, only men can be deadbeats. Remember, when a man bails on his kid its his fault, even if the mother chose a good for nothing man.

What a load of bull ****.

I was given full care, control, and concern of my daughter 16 years ago.
My ex-wife is currently more than $25,000 behind in child support.

So much for your "Mothers can't be deadbeats" theory...

 

[McBell]

A few possible reasons come to mind:

- taking someone to court is a lot of bother and expensive. It also usually means paying a substantial retainer to a lawyer. Even if the net result will be a gain, for a lot of people, their cash flow makes doing this difficult.

- when lawyers get involved, things can get bitter. If the parents have joint custody, then pressing the issue of child support could create friction that could negatively impact the child(ren) involved.

- even if you're successful in getting a court order for the guy to pay up, it's no good if the other person doesn't have the money to do it.

Also, keep in mind that I'm not necessarily taking these people at their word. It could be that they're calling it "threatening child support" when the mother of their kid, who can't afford a lawyer, simply reminds him that he should be paying child support.

Thank you.

 

[Draka]

I just skimmed through your response....Nothing much to read.

As far as your perception, ah well, it really doesn't phase me much because this is what you perceive of my username, not the person behind it. In actuality I am a decent guy if need be, I'd give you the shirt off my back but that is an irrelevant piece of information. Your the one uptight about what I say. Your the one writing block paragraphs to me as if I am going to change my tone. As long as I am in now way violating the forum rules Your the one getting all emotional (I feel a sexist joke coming on).

You said gnat huh? Well keep at it writing block paragraphs you non-emotional blogger you....lol

So when you write long responses it's fine, but when I make a long response to you (shorter than what you wrote fwiw) I'm being an emotional block paragraph writing blogger? :sarcastic Whatever. And again, I haven't gotten "emotional" throughout this whole thing. Unless you count shaking my head, rolling my eyes, and the occasional chuckle as getting "emotional". I don't know. You know us women-folk so much better than me I guess. Our "emotions" getting the better of us and all.

 

[Falvlun]

Jesus.....Another one I have to spell it out for...

None of the fathers in the podcast were complaininy about financial support. They were complaining about vindictive mother who use court as a threat because of arbitrary means. For example if I argue with my ex, who is the mother of my child she threatens me with child support because of a stupid argument. This was the gist of the men who phoned in. Many women fall for idiots. That is plane as day. Lyekis is saying to women that don't filter the idiots shouldn't complain about deadbeats.

For example. If I complain about women I meet and how most women treat me bad only to be told that the women I meet have personality issues who's fault is it that I run into women who treat me bad? Mine. I make the choice to get emotionally attached and wrapped up in an individual who is not good for me

You know what, I'm so totally convinced. Those guys shoulda been smarter and not made babies with those obviously vindictive, lying, mean-spirited women. They shoulda known better! I'm so sick and tired of hearing them complaining about something they should have known was coming!

 

[4consideration]

First and formost I know there are emotional women here who have experienced legit deadbeat men, however this is far and few in between. You guys can spend countless paragraphs saying "well men do this, men do that..." The fact remains is women need to be smarter. Every guy isn't putting up a smoke screen and perpatrating as if he is a good guy. There are females that are scandalous and coniving, and are interested only to trap men. But I guess its still not the woman's fault that she has an alterior motive. A lot of women do. I see it at my university.

"Oh I wanna have his babies since he is going in the draft."

"Oh you dont want kids? Well I must warn you I stop taking my pills cause I want kids?

There are women who purposefully trap men whether its poking holes in condoms or threatening men with court there are women who do this. Why do you ladies hold other women exempt?

Mr. Skittles, you began a thread that focused on a particular podcast with the subject of "deadbeat dads." It was a show specifically on the issue of "deadbeat dads" NOT including "deadbeat moms." It seems that the callers on that show would be focused upon the "deadbeat dads" issue.

The female posters on this thread that were responding to the topic of this thread, did so including RL experience on the subject at hand.

To accuse them of being emotional on the issue because they discussed their RL experience and/or because they did not include or focus upon a rather separate topic of "deadbeat moms" or women (or men) that use deception (poking holes in condoms, etc.) comes across to me as an emotional response on your part.

There is definitely room for a discussion of the same sorts of negative behavior being present for both men and women. I don't think anyone here was disputing that. I don't think it is fair to assume that women posters on this thread are excusing or ignoring the fact that other women do sometimes exhibit faulty behavior in these areas. I do not think anyone was exempting bad behavior on the part of women.

A simple way to have included the issue of "deadbeat moms" (or women with the deceptive intent of "trapping" a man) would have been to include it in the opening post. Since you did not, it is not valid to offer it as any sort of evidence against the female posters on this thread.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

2) If I truly hated women (not to be confused with being misogynistic) I'd be gay. Not metrosexual nor bisexual nor asexual.

Pssttt......gays and women often get along quite well. What you said in on par with saying lesbians hate men, although that is very clearly and very obviously not the case.

Sorry hun, I don't deal with statistics, I deal with real life.

Where do you think statistics come from?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

So, in other words (said in the most stoic way I can manage)....

If a woman is behaving badly toward a man, he is being victimized and women should know better than to treat a man like crap. Hence, it's her fault.

If a man is behaving badly toward a woman, she isn't being victimized and should know better than to date bad men. Hence, it's her fault.

Gotcha.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

What a load of bull ****.

I was given full care, control, and concern of my daughter 16 years ago.
My ex-wife is currently more than $25,000 behind in child support.

So much for your "Mothers can't be deadbeats" theory...

Alas you missed the facetious-ness of the comment...It was pure satire bro calm the f***** down.

 

[Rakhel]

Pssttt......gays and women often get along quite well. What you said in on par with saying lesbians hate men, although that is very clearly and very obviously not the case.

While I hate being fair, this time, I have run into a few lesbians that very dearly hate men. But they had their reasons, and it wasn't just because "he" was a man. And when I say "a few" I mean like one, maybe two lesbians in the 50-100 I have met in my life time to date.
Finding a male homosexual who hated women was harder to find.
I found more straight men who hated women than I did homosexual men.
The same could be said of heterosexual women. You will find more straight women hate the female population than you will lesbians.