Death being final degrades and insults our humanity

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

The New Age spiritualist view offers an explanation. It says that even though this life we have is an unfortunate one most of the time due to bad karma and whatnot, that everything will work out in the end for us and we will be happy forever.

Life isn't an Adam Sandler movie you know.

 

[McBell]

Since kind and innocent people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect,

Says who?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Says who?

I think it's quite obvious. Only someone who lacks empathy would ask that. Don't you think that any kind and loving parent in your life deserves to be treated with dignity and respect?

 

[McBell]

I think it's quite obvious.

Yet you are unable to provide a direct answer to the direct question.....

Seems it is not as "obvious" as you would like to think?

Only someone who lacks empathy would ask that.

Says who?
And no, other than YOU, it is not obvious.
Is this another direct question you will avoid answering?

Don't you think that any kind and loving parent in your life deserves to be treated with dignity and respect?

Where does this "obvious" entitlement come from?


Seems to me it is the whole "sanctity of life" nonsense.
I agree with George Carlin on that...

if everything that ever lived is dead, and everything alive is going to die, where does the sacred part come in?​

 

[YmirGF]

I also fail to see how death is degrading.

I've always thought of it as the crowning glory of a superb life. Call me silly...

 

[Nakosis]

I agree that we can still have value as human beings, but all I am saying is that death being final would be very degrading and insulting of our humanity. The Jews still have value as human beings, but they were still being insulted and degraded by how they were treated by Hitler.

If you cease to exist, then how will be able to feel insulted or degraded?
To cease to exist, I think will be kind of peaceful finally. That's what I imagine it to be, of course I wouldn't be around to feel that either.

If there is an afterlife, very likely it will be nothing like you imagine it to be.

So it'll either be nothing or nothing like what I expect. So I figure I'd just be wasting my current life worrying about some afterlife that I don't have a clue about anyway.

 

[icehorse]

The same thing applies to me in a situation where death is final. If death really is final, then I would feel quite insulted and degraded as well since that is treating me like I am nothing more than something to be tossed and thrown away for good like a rotting and decaying piece of meat.

There are many other conclusions you could be drawing.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Yet you are unable to provide a direct answer to the direct question.....

Seems it is not as "obvious" as you would like to think?


Says who?
And no, other than YOU, it is not obvious.
Is this another direct question you will avoid answering?


Where does this "obvious" entitlement come from?


Seems to me it is the whole "sanctity of life" nonsense.
I agree with George Carlin on that...

if everything that ever lived is dead, and everything alive is going to die, where does the sacred part come in?​

This obvious entitlement just comes from our empathy. If we have a loved one in our lives who is very kind and respectful, then we would think that this person is entitled to respect and dignity. It is just empathy at work here. Nothing more needs to be explained. If you did not think that your loving and kind parent was deserving of dignity and respect, then it would not matter to you if you harmed him/her or if you have been cruel to him/her. I will post another example. It is in regards to our right to freedom. We have freedom and democracy because we think ourselves and others are deserving of dignity and respect.

If you cease to exist, then how will be able to feel insulted or degraded?
To cease to exist, I think will be kind of peaceful finally. That's what I imagine it to be, of course I wouldn't be around to feel that either.

If there is an afterlife, very likely it will be nothing like you imagine it to be.

So it'll either be nothing or nothing like what I expect. So I figure I'd just be wasting my current life worrying about some afterlife that I don't have a clue about anyway.

I already realize that if death were final and you were to die, that you cannot feel insulted and degraded. Therefore, I am instead referring to the treatment itself as being insulting and degrading. For us to be treated like we are nothing more than material here on Earth to just rot and decay away like meat is insulting and degrading.

 

[bobhikes]

The idea of the afterlife is so important to me since I want a personal private life all to myself where I can be happy all I want and get whatever I want. That is the only good thing in life to me. I don't care about the personal opinions of others who say that this is childish, I need to grow up, etc. We are talking about me as a human being here and if I am just biological material here for a short while only to forever decay when I die and not live on in an eternal blissful afterlife, then that is treating me like I am nothing more than a biological organism/machine or some sort of scrap material that will just break down, die, and decay one day.

All I can say is prepare to be disappointed if there is an afterlife and it won't matter if there is no afterlife.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The idea of the afterlife is so important to me since I want a personal private life all to myself where I can be happy all I want and get whatever I want. That is the only good thing in life to me. I don't care about the personal opinions of others who say that this is childish, I need to grow up, etc. We are talking about me as a human being here and if I am just biological material here for a short while only to forever decay when I die and not live on in an eternal blissful afterlife, then that is treating me like I am nothing more than a biological organism/machine or some sort of scrap material that will just break down, die, and decay one day.

That would be utterly insulting and degrading of me as a human being for such a treatment to be given to me. I just don't understand how nonbelievers think otherwise. Imagine how the Jews felt in regards to how Hitler treated them. I bet they felt quite insulted and degraded since they were being treated like nothing more than animals and torture devices. The same thing applies to me in a situation where death is final. If death really is final, then I would feel quite insulted and degraded as well since that is treating me like I am nothing more than something to be tossed and thrown away for good like a rotting and decaying piece of meat.

I will apply this concept to religious believers as well. If there is a God out there such as the God portrayed by fundamentalist Christianity, then that would be a far worse treatment of me. That would be treating me like a slave who is expected to serve and dedicate my life to God or burn forever in a lake of fire. It would be an even worse treatment than Hitler, in my opinion. But, at the same time, death being final is also a horrible, tragic, insulting, and degrading treatment as well for all the reasons I've just explained. Therefore, that only leaves one option by which I can be treated with dignity and respect.

That would be through the New Age spiritual view which advocates the idea that we are all loved by a God who will not condemn us, send us to hell, or have us simply rot and decay away to where we are nevermore. It is the one world religion that many people are uniting under. I don't have any religious beliefs. I don't believe in a God, an afterlife, and nor do I believe in the idea that once you die, that is it. Therefore, I just don't know what to expect when I die and I really hope it is the case that I do get to live on forever in the eternal blissful afterlife of my dreams.

What exactly about the cycle of life do you find insulting or degrading? Where is the insult or degradation in having the nutrients in your decaying body to cause other life to grow and flourish?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

What exactly about the cycle of life do you find insulting or degrading? Where is the insult or degradation in having the nutrients in your decaying body to cause other life to grow and flourish?

Like I just explained earlier, it is the treatment I am getting which is insulting and degrading to me as a human being. I am being treated like I am nothing but meat that will just forever rot and decay away one day. In other words, I am being treated like I am nothing more than just some sort of scrap material to just be thrown away for good and that is what I find insulting and degrading of me as well as other kind and innocent people who are also deserving of respect and dignity.

 

[Rival]

I've always thought of it as the crowning glory of a superb life. Call me silly...

I think death is beautiful and I like the way poets, novelists and artists have depicted it over the centuries.

 

[McBell]

Like I just explained earlier, it is the treatment I am getting which is insulting and degrading to me as a human being. I am being treated like I am nothing but meat that will just forever rot and decay away one day. In other words, I am being treated like I am nothing more than just some sort of scrap material to just be thrown away for good and that is what I find insulting and degrading of me as well as other kind and innocent people who are also deserving of respect and dignity.

who is "treating" you?

 

[McBell]

I am trying to figure out who/what you think "owes" you not only an afterlife, but an after life "where I can be happy all I want and get whatever I want".

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

who is "treating" you?

First off, did you read my previous reply to you because it answers your question? Second, you can say that a certain object or situation is treating you a certain way even though we usually make such a statement in regards to people. For example, someone could say that this life has treated him/her harshly and unfairly.

 

[McBell]

First off, did you read my previous reply to you because it answers your question?

Yes I did read it.
No, it does not answer the question.

Second, you can say that a certain object or situation is treating you a certain way even though we usually make such a statement in regards to people. For example, someone could say that this life has treated him/her harshly and unfairly.

What is your basis for comparison?

Please keep in mind that I am still trying to understand how it is not childish and immature.
So far, you have been reinforcing the childishness and immaturity.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Yes I did read it.
No, it does not answer the question.


What is your basis for comparison?

Please keep in mind that I am still trying to understand how it is not childish and immature.
So far, you have been reinforcing the childishness and immaturity.

How does it not answer the question? What more could you possibly want me to explain? Also, I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you ask what my basis is for comparison.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Yes I did read it.
No, it does not answer the question.


What is your basis for comparison?

Please keep in mind that I am still trying to understand how it is not childish and immature.
So far, you have been reinforcing the childishness and immaturity.

Alright, to extend upon my previous post I just made to you, you asked what or who owes me an eternal blissful afterlife. The answer here would be this life. Even though it would be impossible for this life to do so if death really is final since that would defy the laws of physics, all I am saying here is that death being final is insulting and degrading of me as a human being. I am entitled to dignity and respect just as any other kind and innocent human being out there. I do not see how that is childish, spoiled, and immature. This means that I would be entitled to something that doesn't exist. However, I think this is still a valid position to take because, if freedom and democracy could never exist, slaves would still be entitled to it anyway.

If you are asking where does this entitlement come from if we live in a universe that has no grand meaning, then the answer here would be that, just as how we can create our own personal meaning despite this universe having no meaning in the grand sense, we as human beings create a sense of entitlement towards ourselves and others since we think that other kind and innocent people are deserving of dignity and respect just as how we are deserving of dignity and respect. Again, if this entitlement never existed, then we would never have democracy and freedom. Soldiers would have never fought for our freedom and neither would they have fought for their own freedom.

 

[Kemosloby]

Actually the opposite is true. If death is all there is, this life is the best thing you've got going. But the thought of an afterlife so much better, makes this world, humanity look degraded. Right?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Actually the opposite is true. If death is all there is, this life is the best thing you've got going. But the thought of an afterlife so much better, makes this world, humanity look degraded. Right?

Actually, read my previous post since this is not where I am really getting at.