Death being final degrades and insults our humanity

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

If you are implying that my sense of entitlement is childish, spoiled, and immature, then this is a misconception here.

These posts justify my position regarding how my sense of entitlement really is not childish, spoiled, and immature as people make it out to be.

Ok...I didn't say your sense of entitlement was childish or whatever..although I certainly won't say it isn't. That was you that introduced all that stuff not me..I wonder why..

Anyway, what I did allude to was your ginormous sense of entitlement, not why it existed.

We are entitled to freedom and democracy just as how we are entitled to any other form of respectful and dignified treatment. That would even include us not rotting and decaying away like meat.

As evidenced here. Why do you think you are entitled to any of that? I for one, give respect where it is earned, not where it is impetuously demanded.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Ok...I didn't say your sense of entitlement was childish or whatever..although I certainly won't say it isn't. That was you that introduced all that stuff not me..I wonder why..

Anyway, what I did allude to was your ginormous sense of entitlement, not why it existed.


As evidenced here. Why do you think you are entitled to any of that? I for one, give respect where it is earned, not where it is impetuously demanded.

I display a nice, kind, and respectful attitude to my family and to others out in the community. I respect the values of others and I am a kind person. That is why I think I am entitled to an eternal blissful afterlife. It's not like I am the most horrible person of all who needs to be put out for good. That is why I think it shows a lack of respect and human dignity to put me out for good. I do not think an eternal blissful afterlife is anything like a fancy mansion or any other reward that you are expected to put in hard work to earn.

This is because I see an eternal blissful afterlife as being no different than any other kind and respectful treatment. All you need to do to earn such treatments is just simply be a kind and respectful person yourself. Therefore, I don't see an eternal blissful afterlife as something like a fancy car or mansion. Rather, I see it as a necessity that is needed to show kindness and respect. But even if there were horrible people out there, I simply do not agree that they should just rot and decay away. I think they should be given a chance to change. After all, they are human beings here and to just throw them away would still show a lack of human dignity.

 

[Polymath257]

One thing that impresses me about the OP is that one of the *defining* aspects of humanity is our mortality. If anything, the wish for immortality is a wish to become non-human.

It is a very deep denial of humanity in and of itself.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

One thing that impresses me about the OP is that one of the *defining* aspects of humanity is our mortality. If anything, the wish for immortality is a wish to become non-human.

It is a very deep denial of humanity in and of itself.

Personally, I do not see how that follows. If we were immortal, we would still have human qualities. We would still have empathy for one another and all the other attributes that humans have. The only thing that you could consider to not be human would be our physical forms since we would now have forms that are immortal.

 

[Polymath257]

Personally, I do not see how that follows. If we were immortal, we would still have human qualities. We would still have empathy for one another and all the other attributes that humans have. The only thing that you could consider to not be human would be our physical forms since we would now have forms that are immortal.

Well, I cannot help you if you insist on feeling degraded by the mortal aspect of being human. Yes, you will eventually die. Your body will decompose and you will be no more. That is *exactly* the same as everyone else and is one of the facts about being human. It is also at the basis of a lot of humanity: the knowledge that by our actions or inactions, we could potentially make this short life of ours less livable for someone else.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I display a nice, kind, and respectful attitude to my family and to others out in the community. I respect the values of others and I am a kind person. That is why I think I am entitled to an eternal blissful afterlife. It's not like I am the most horrible person of all who needs to be put out for good. That is why I think it shows a lack of respect and human dignity to put me out for good. I do not think an eternal blissful afterlife is anything like a fancy mansion or any other reward that you are expected to put in hard work to earn.

This is because I see an eternal blissful afterlife as being no different than any other kind and respectful treatment. All you need to do to earn such treatments is just simply be a kind and respectful person yourself. Therefore, I don't see an eternal blissful afterlife as something like a fancy car or mansion. Rather, I see it as a necessity that is needed to show kindness and respect. But even if there were horrible people out there, I simply do not agree that they should just rot and decay away. I think they should be given a chance to change. After all, they are human beings here and to just throw them away would still show a lack of human dignity.

Well, ultimately what you have there is a fantasy. Have fun with that.

If we were immortal, we would still have human qualities. We would still have empathy for one another and all the other attributes that humans have.

As those are all characteristics of our human form and brain, that seems a pretty huge leap of logic. A non sequitur even.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Well, ultimately what you have there is a fantasy. Have fun with that.


As those are all characteristics of our human form and brain, that seems a pretty huge leap of logic. A non sequitur even.

Spiritual beliefs claim that when we die and live on in an eternal blissful afterlife, that all our human qualities of empathy, joy, love, etc. will be intact.

 

[ChristineM]

Every atom of your body was born in a star and will exist until the end of the universe

How is that degrading and insulating?

The insult to human intelligence is the thought of a conscious soul living for eternity.

 

[ChristineM]

Spiritual beliefs claim that when we die and live on in an eternal blissful afterlife, that all our human qualities of empathy, joy, love, etc. will be intact.

You said it... beliefs... No facts involved

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Spiritual beliefs claim that when we die and live on in an eternal blissful afterlife, that all our human qualities of empathy, joy, love, etc. will be intact.

Oh. Who is 'spiritual beliefs'? I assume that must be a person because only people make claims.

I feel this person looks exactly like you.

So why should anyone take these claims of yours any more seriously than say, the moon is made of cheese?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

The idea of the afterlife is so important to me since I want a personal private life all to myself where I can be happy all I want and get whatever I want. That is the only good thing in life to me. I don't care about the personal opinions of others who say that this is childish, I need to grow up, etc. We are talking about me as a human being here and if I am just biological material here for a short while only to forever decay when I die and not live on in an eternal blissful afterlife, then that is treating me like I am nothing more than a biological organism/machine or some sort of scrap material that will just break down, die, and decay one day.

As an evolutionary biologist, I say "you are not EVEN a biological scrap." All life, except anomalous humans, live in the moment. You are not even an animal, much less a biological scrap.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree that we can still have value as human beings, but all I am saying is that death being final would be very degrading and insulting of our humanity.

What a bizarre mixture of hubris and wishful thinking.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

That would be utterly insulting and degrading of me as a human being for such a treatment to be given to me. I just don't understand how nonbelievers think otherwise. Imagine how the Jews felt in regards to how Hitler treated them. I bet they felt quite insulted and degraded since they were being treated like nothing more than animals and torture devices. The same thing applies to me in a situation where death is final. If death really is final, then I would feel quite insulted and degraded as well since that is treating me like I am nothing more than something to be tossed and thrown away for good like a rotting and decaying piece of meat.

You equate your death as being final (no suffering whatsoever on earth), to untold suffering here and now by millions of people, whose death is also final and most likely a release from their suffering. I believe you are a piece of work. Oh my, how can you stand being so insulted?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I will apply this concept to religious believers as well. If there is a God out there such as the God portrayed by fundamentalist Christianity, then that would be a far worse treatment of me. That would be treating me like a slave who is expected to serve and dedicate my life to God or burn forever in a lake of fire. It would be an even worse treatment than Hitler, in my opinion. But, at the same time, death being final is also a horrible, tragic, insulting, and degrading treatment as well for all the reasons I've just explained. Therefore, that only leaves one option by which I can be treated with dignity and respect.

But your mere attitude, that "you be treated" implies a god!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Dude, if you want to believe in a happy afterlife because it gives you comfort, go for it. You will die one day, but you don't have to believe this is all there is. I believe in an afterlife, myself.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

That would be through the New Age spiritual view which advocates the idea that we are all loved by a God who will not condemn us, send us to hell, or have us simply rot and decay away to where we are nevermore. It is the one world religion that many people are uniting under. I don't have any religious beliefs. I don't believe in a God, an afterlife, and nor do I believe in the idea that once you die, that is it. Therefore, I just don't know what to expect when I die and I really hope it is the case that I do get to live on forever in the eternal blissful afterlife of my dreams.

Well, you show that you can't accept any dogmatic religion, nor have you thought through things further than what is acceptable to you. Lesson #1 Reality does not revolve around you or what is acceptable. But let me leave you these words; Why not live the best life you can, be the best person you can, help as many people as you can HERE AND NOW?

My biggest problem with most any religion is the focus on some hereafter, rather than here and now; some afterlife, rather than the best life.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Why should God forever tolerate rebels? Anyone who refuses to acknowledge God's sovereignty "will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him."

Because gawd has never taken the time to demonstrate that he actually exists?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I'm not sure what else to say. I think it is just quite obvious that if there is any situation that insults and degrades you as a human being, that to feel insulted and degraded by said situations is justified and isn't childish.

I can feel insulted and degraded because someone (rightfully or wrongfully) calls me a *******! It's not obvious that I"m justified and not childish!

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Alright, to extend upon my previous post I just made to you, you asked what or who owes me an eternal blissful afterlife. The answer here would be this life. Even though it would be impossible for this life to do so if death really is final since that would defy the laws of physics, all I am saying here is that death being final is insulting and degrading of me as a human being.

I am entitled to dignity and respect just as any other kind and innocent human being out there.

By whom are you entitled? Do you know what the word entitlement means?

I do not see how that is childish, spoiled, and immature. This means that I would be entitled to something that doesn't exist. However, I think this is still a valid position to take because, if freedom and democracy could never exist, slaves would still be entitled to it anyway.

If you are asking where does this entitlement come from if we live in a universe that has no grand meaning, then the answer here would be that, just as how we can create our own personal meaning despite this universe having no meaning in the grand sense, we as human beings create a sense of entitlement towards ourselves and others since we think that other kind and innocent people are deserving of dignity and respect just as how we are deserving of dignity and respect. Again, if this entitlement never existed, then we would never have democracy and freedom. Soldiers would have never fought for our freedom and neither would they have fought for their own freedom.

The feeling of entitlement, without title, is childish and sophomoric. Without a grant, their is no title. Without a granting entity, there is no entitlement.

{As I read through this, I haven't even gotten to the basis of your fallacies.}

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

This obvious entitlement just comes from our empathy.

LOL, you have no idea what entitlement means, do you?

If we have a loved one in our lives who is very kind and respectful, then we would think that this person is entitled to respect and dignity. It is just empathy at work here. Nothing more needs to be explained. If you did not think that your loving and kind parent was deserving of dignity and respect, then it would not matter to you if you harmed him/her or if you have been cruel to him/her. I will post another example. It is in regards to our right to freedom. We have freedom and democracy because we think ourselves and others are deserving of dignity and respect.



I already realize that if death were final and you were to die, that you cannot feel insulted and degraded. Therefore, I am instead referring to the treatment itself as being insulting and degrading. For us to be treated like we are nothing more than material here on Earth to just rot and decay away like meat is insulting and degrading.