Curious George
Veteran Member
Pretty sure vengeance is found in animals other than humans. It is a natural drive.
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Death penalty: Are you for or against it?
- Thread starter Saint Frankenstein
- Start date
Possibly.
Where would I find this? I know about animals behaving in quite pragmatic ways.
One male lion dispatches the old alpha male. He then kills all the cubs, so he can use the females to spread his genes. But there is no vengeance. The natural world doesn't include such human emotions, that I know about.
Please educate me.
Tom
So it appears, but upon examination, Jesus knew that she was truly repentant. But then, what of they who do not repent? Additionally, you are dealing with an issue of divine justice, not human justice, which had occurred before the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ Jesus.
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Curious George
Veteran Member
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/revenge-evolution/
I will look for academic sources another time.
I will look for academic sources another time.
Go ahead, when you get time.
Maybe you can explain to our Christian friends that what they are advocating is the law of the jungle, nothing to do with Jesus.
I see morality as behavior that is more condusive to a quality life than the animal behavior that we are instinctively programmed for. So I don't really care what animals do. I want us to do better.
But, boy do I find it ironic when I get frustrated by having to explain to Christians that Jesus wasn't teaching "natural law", or Mosaic law. We already had that.
Tom
Curious George
Veteran Member
That it is natural doesn't answer if it is better. I agree with this.
Again, eye for an eye, and the whole world is blind.
I'm wondering what make believe world you all live in, where violence seems to have solved everything, and now you live in a utopia? lol The world keeps getting more and more violent, because of violence. Oh the irony.
Carry on.
Not looking to get involved in a heated discussion, and I'm apologizing in advance if the link has been posted already, but I read an article recently which talked about an inmates team and a Harvard undergrad team debating...and the inmates won. Make of it what you want, but I believe in second chances.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/an-unlikely-debate-prison-vs-harvard-1442616928
http://www.wsj.com/articles/an-unlikely-debate-prison-vs-harvard-1442616928
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Very good article.
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
I'll chime in...since I am a cop, grew up as a Christian, and am now a deist!
I support the death penalty...but not via an executioner. So how does that work? If they choose to take their own life, so be it. Don't try to stop or save them.
I know for a fact that there is prison justice for certain crimes. I say let justice take its course once the inmates find out.
Those that quote "eye for an eye" are using the OT to justify a position. However, the OT laws apply to Jews, not Gentiles (non-Jews), so Christians...it seems you can't use that excuse. Besides, God already said that vengeance was His (Romans 12:19).
A life sentence in prison is worse than the death penalty. No more heterosexual sex, no more driving around, no more wearing what you want, no more vacations, etc. You are confined to a small cell, follow a schedule, have tons of boredom, and have the same day in and out, repeatedly...until you die. Let them rot.
I support the death penalty...but not via an executioner. So how does that work? If they choose to take their own life, so be it. Don't try to stop or save them.
I know for a fact that there is prison justice for certain crimes. I say let justice take its course once the inmates find out.
Those that quote "eye for an eye" are using the OT to justify a position. However, the OT laws apply to Jews, not Gentiles (non-Jews), so Christians...it seems you can't use that excuse. Besides, God already said that vengeance was His (Romans 12:19).
A life sentence in prison is worse than the death penalty. No more heterosexual sex, no more driving around, no more wearing what you want, no more vacations, etc. You are confined to a small cell, follow a schedule, have tons of boredom, and have the same day in and out, repeatedly...until you die. Let them rot.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
The only reason I would be against the death penalty is the costs.
I'd kill em for free, as many of them have earned themselves such a punishment.
I have no morals against murder, or other crimes, I'm just going off the basis of what is best for society.
It would be better to take the majority of murderers, terrorists, neo-terrorists, and gang members to the chair.
All the Government should have to worry about is costs in electricity.
That would empty prisons and take crime rate out a bit.
I'd kill em for free, as many of them have earned themselves such a punishment.
I have no morals against murder, or other crimes, I'm just going off the basis of what is best for society.
It would be better to take the majority of murderers, terrorists, neo-terrorists, and gang members to the chair.
All the Government should have to worry about is costs in electricity.
That would empty prisons and take crime rate out a bit.
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
It is. It's a natural part of the behavior of social species. There are rules to living in any society and non-humans are no different. I really don't understand why humans persist in believing that humans are somehow an exception to evolution, which includes behavior.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-468822/Chimps-thirst-vengeance-time.html
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/041612.html
So you're a utilitarian psychopath?
You say that like it's a bad thing, Franky! Just look at how well I....err..how good I...
In fact, forget I ever mentioned myself as an example.
I knew that would bring you out of the woodwork.
It's like blood in the water for me. Other such things that'll draw me out are "Nazi", "Holocaust", "Germany" and "King James Version is best". That last one, though, is more likely to result in actual blood, though not mine..I knew that would bring you out of the woodwork.
Well, you'll never hear me saying that last one.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Sure, why not.
I base my use of "best for" as a means of efficiency more so than ethics.
It would be more efficient to simply kill all of those committing what is considered heinous crimes.
And it would be more efficient if the cost and time limit were lowered per death.
Go find the statistics on how many prisoners are murderers, child rapists, gang members and the like.
Find how much it costs to give them three meals a day, and to pay their medical expenses.
Then look at the impact it would have on taxes when all those numbers disappear.
Of course that would be per state, but it would be money saved none the less.
I don't like death penalty, but I believe it should be there as an option. Many murderers and rapists repeated their crimes over and over just because no one stopped them properly or because they knew there is no strong enough law that worries them; like maybe: "yeah, I'm just gonna go to jail then get out. Let's have fun killing and raping". I think if they we executed, many victims wouldn't have suffered. However, the case must be studied so very carefully before deciding the sentence and the execution should be done in the least painful way and without any unnecessary over acting.
Either ways, I think who has the right to forgive the convict is the family of the victim should the convict was 100% proven guilty. If not, only then other measures are okay to take, I think.
Either ways, I think who has the right to forgive the convict is the family of the victim should the convict was 100% proven guilty. If not, only then other measures are okay to take, I think.