Death penalty: Are you for or against it?

[methylatedghosts]

Murder is a legal term.

I'm not using it in a legal sense. I'm using it in the sense that it is killing a person

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am sorry friend, but I cannot agree with you, we all do what we do, and that is very complicated, people who do these things, such as murder only do it because that is how their programmed and conditioned to do, this conditioning may have come from their childhood or whatever, they only do what they do, because of this programming, this realization is compassion, its either you have it or not.

Sorry, but that's bs. People have choices. We're not robots. Even a psychopath could come to understand that harming others isn't in their best interests, and they have brain abnormalities.

 

[psychoslice]

Sorry, but that's bs. People have choices. We're not robots. Even a psychopath could come to understand that harming others isn't in their best interests, and they have brain abnormalities.

Well you certainty have shown your compassion, which is, well, non existence.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Sorry, but that's bs. People have choices. We're not robots. Even a psychopath could come to understand that harming others isn't in their best interests, and they have brain abnormalities.

Then why not rehabilitate said psychopath instead of killing him? Help him to understand harming others is not in his best interests, and so he won't do it again...

 

[Curious George]

I don't really see how that would work. What sort of justice is it when they can choose their own consequence? That would be make for a very, very bizarre and unequal justice system.

I guess it depends on the your concept of justice. While I see the purpose of our penal system ideally rehabilitative, I have to acknowledge a retributive aspect. But this retributive aspect is allowing the criminal to pay their debt. One way this could be done is with the forfeiture of life. I see no reason not to allow people facing life in prison to choose death (except for potential liabilities such a choice might bring).

Bottom line, prison is there first and foremost to make our world safer. That a retributive aspect exists at all, allows for the prisoners to payback society, not the victims, for their crimes. What higher price can be paid than ones life? And why should we stop people who wish to pay such a price?

 

[Curious George]

This man shouldn't be executed, he will be anally raped and tortured by black, white and Mexican gangs for years as soon as someone finds out why he's there. He might eventually be killed too, after years of rape.

There is a deeper sense of justice in the prison that the courts. Pedophiles are routinely murdered in jail as well. Many prison guards turn the other way. There is an instinctive sense of justice which is deep within all human beings to eliminate evil from the gene pool as quickly as possible. The legal system tries to impose a sense of forced compassion for monsters, but many of them face justice eventually.

Constitution be damned?

I find threads like this relevant to show how fragile our society is. With so many who think this way, I am often amazed that that piece of paper still exists.

Re: the sense of vigilante justice, I suppose even ISIS believes they are righteous.

 

[Glaurung]

The question is whether or not you think the state can ever justified in the taking of life. In my own opinion it can be for the most egregious of crimes. However, when carrying it out takes decades and costs more than a life sentence then I think it's pointless.

I am sorry friend, but I cannot agree with you, we all do what we do, and that is very complicated, people who do these things, such as murder only do it because that is how their programmed and conditioned to do

While some people may have violent dispositions, they still hold responsibility for their actions. To argue that someone who commits pre-meditated murder in order to take insurance money, or plans weeks in advance to shoot up a school are just automatons predetermined to do what they do is nothing more than sophistic.

And the implications of your argument don't help your point, as if a certain person is but a preconditioned automation playing out a program, then said killer's life has no moral value because said person isn't really sentient. Any apparent agency they display is illusory. It would be the moral equivalent of killing an insect or a computer game character.

 

[Altfish]

If I had any confidence in the police and legal system not getting the wrong person, I may consider it. But there have been that many miscarriages in recent years and if you've murdered them it is difficult to give them a reprieve.

 

[BSM1]

Sure, I could. If they deserve it. Hell, if someone killed or grievously harmed my mom or one of my pets, there's a good chance I'd go all Punisher on them.

This is exactly why it is right and proper for the State (government) to take your life as punishment for taking the life of others. Like you, if you harm or try to harm me or my family I could put "two-in-your-chest" and never lose a minute's sleep. Unfortunately this may make me a murderer no matter how justified my actions may be. However, if the law (government) doesn't require the maximum payment for this crime, then I probably would show up with the bill myself. There are seven billion of us on this planet, we can do without a few.

 

[Revoltingest]

This topic again?
I voted for no death penalty.
I actually favor it, but the problem is that the justice system is too incompetent & corrupt to deliver a reliable verdict.
Convicts who are later found to be innocent or at least not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt deserve to be released from their punishment.
Can't do that when they're dead.

 

[lunakilo]

I definitely oppose death penalty, but on the other hand news like this (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34401166) makes my hart warm.
So maybe I am not as holy about it as I would like to think

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As for me, I'm for it and think it should be expanded for certain crimes. I've seen enough to know that some people are really just evil and some of things that they do to humans or animals is just unspeakable, and they should be removed from the earth for justice's sake. I don't even care about the deterrence argument. It's about justice, to me.

These are the things I think it should be expanded to include:

Violent rape
Sadistic animal abuse and torture
Pimping
Human trafficking
Poaching (especially of endangered/protected species)
Drug lords
Child molestation and rape
Knowingly taking part in and facilitating human rights abuses
Knowingly causing or facilitating financial disasters (that would clear out Wall Street and many politicians pretty quick, lol)

In my opinion, if there's airtight evidence that has been proven not to have been faked by an impartial panel of experts (biological, audio, video, documents, etc.), they should be denied an appeal, denied plea deals and fast-tracked on death row. If such evidence does not exist, they should be allowed appeals.

As for methods of carrying out the death sentence, I believe in scrapping silliness like lethal injection, gas chambers, etc. and just putting a bullet into their head.

Also, I agree that the prison system and legal system needs a drastic overhaul. But much of this is idealism and not necessarily supporting the broken, corrupt system that exists now. In other words, it's what I'd like to see. I believe in rehabilitating those who can be rehabilitated - not all can be, such as psychopaths and those with similar brain abnormalities such as ASPD - but I also believe in justice and that there are some crimes that only monsters would commit in the first place.

So what's your opinion on this?

I oppose to it. Life should not be taken by another person with willingful intent. They create their own karma and suffered consequences for their actions without our intervening in their rights to live no matter what "sin" they committed. Abortion, death penalty, etc I oppose to. We hsve the right to live even if we take a life from another, its our right and life to find ways to make retrebution to self, to our god (or so have you), and to the freedom we should have to ammend their actions.

Thats why I like how the Church has prision ministries. What we should do is help them prevent further crimes not "take them out the picture." Sounds barbaric.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nope.

No, no, and nope. Not ever. Never.

No one has the right to take another's life. Just because someone takes that right, doesn't give me or you the right

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Jainarayan]

I support the death penalty.

I'd send them into the desert with nothing but the clothes on their back. Have fun!

Nah, they might have watched Survivorman or Bear Grylls.

If I let my inner sadist out, I'd say bring back the Medieval tortures. Those were tons of fun and very inventive.

Blood eagle for the win.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If I had any confidence in the police and legal system not getting the wrong person, I may consider it. But there have been that many miscarriages in recent years and if you've murdered them it is difficult to give them a reprieve.

I agree.

IMO, the death penalty is generally immoral and doesn't fulfil any real purpose besides revenge... often at a horrible cost. The only exception I have is in the rare instance that three things happen at the same time:

- the justice system is so reliable - or the evidence is so clear - that the guilty verdict can't be disputed.
- the crime is something especially heinous.
- the penal system is so unreliable that we can't reasonably expect to be able to keep the person in prison for a life sentence.

The only time I can think of when all those criteria were met in my lifetime was Saddam Hussein. As long as he lived, there was a strong risk that his supporters would bust him out of prison, killing who knows how many people in the process. His life for all those other lives was a good trade.

 

[viole]

As for me, I'm for it and think it should be expanded for certain crimes. I've seen enough to know that some people are really just evil and some of things that they do to humans or animals is just unspeakable, and they should be removed from the earth for justice's sake. I don't even care about the deterrence argument. It's about justice, to me.

These are the things I think it should be expanded to include:

Violent rape
Sadistic animal abuse and torture
Pimping
Human trafficking
Poaching (especially of endangered/protected species)
Drug lords
Child molestation and rape
Knowingly taking part in and facilitating human rights abuses
Knowingly causing or facilitating financial disasters (that would clear out Wall Street and many politicians pretty quick, lol)

In my opinion, if there's airtight evidence that has been proven not to have been faked by an impartial panel of experts (biological, audio, video, documents, etc.), they should be denied an appeal, denied plea deals and fast-tracked on death row. If such evidence does not exist, they should be allowed appeals.

As for methods of carrying out the death sentence, I believe in scrapping silliness like lethal injection, gas chambers, etc. and just putting a bullet into their head.

Also, I agree that the prison system and legal system needs a drastic overhaul. But much of this is idealism and not necessarily supporting the broken, corrupt system that exists now. In other words, it's what I'd like to see. I believe in rehabilitating those who can be rehabilitated - not all can be, such as psychopaths and those with similar brain abnormalities such as ASPD - but I also believe in justice and that there are some crimes that only monsters would commit in the first place.

So what's your opinion on this?

Against. In any case. I am even against life sentences. Or any kind of irreversible sentences.

Probably due to my northern European mindset that favors correction over (emotional) retaliation.

Ciao

- viole

P.S. Sure you are Catholic?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I'm kind of half and half. While I think criminals like rapists, paedophiles, serial killers, child murderers and politicians could benefit from having the death penalty applied, I do not trust the government - any government - to be able to set down who should be put to death. It's far too open to abuse by those in power like so many existing laws.

Edit: I most definitely would not trust the current Westminster regime with applying the death penalty.

Another 'against' factor is that the state prohibits citizens committing murder - so why is it okay for the state?

 

[Augustus]

It is probably justified for terrorists and people who seek to kill others based on hateful ideologies in some cases.

The problem with imprisoning such people is they become heroes to some and have the opportunity to further spread their message and perhaps encourage others to commit further crimes.

As Karl Popper said "Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Why should those who seek to destroy the values of tolerance, rule of law and human rights be able to use these to further their aims?

As an example, if America had applied this policy in Iraq, the ISIS takeover would probably never have happened.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Then why not rehabilitate said psychopath instead of killing him? Help him to understand harming others is not in his best interests, and so he won't do it again...

Trying to rehab a psychopath? That's a tall order. Maybe a lobotomy though.....

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think death penalty , if no option, needs to be taken as a case by case basis, and not under a blanket designation prescribed by law with the last word being from the victims themselves after everything is weighed as the deciding factor.

Exile to a desolate and remote place far removed from civilization might be a good alternative as well. Perhaps a lone island far out in the ocean.