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Debate on hell

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
In spite of the loosely collected writings of hell somewhere !
There is not any hell !!
In spite of nut-cases of old !
Geeeeeeezzzz!
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
What is in hell that interest you?

I remembered that the Philippine President mentioned "hell" in one of his fiery speeches.


The present day Hell based on the Bible looks like this

View from above and ............................................... from below

upload_2020-6-20_22-27-21.jpeg
upload_2020-6-20_22-27-45.jpeg


The future fiery hell mentioned in the Bible is to be created by God on Judgement Day.
The book of revelations calls that "the second death"

8ec42f859fb06102-man-on-fire-gif-find-share-on-giphy.gif
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
Someone with less patience than I would be tearing his or her hair out right now, totally frustrated with you.

None of the verses you listed from Jewish scripture mention “hell”. From my understanding, your cite to Christian scripture also does not mention “hell”. Your translations are wrong.

What does it take to reach you? How many times do you need to be told that the translation used by you is faulty before that fact sinks in?

Is your memory that bad that you cannot remember that you have asked the same questions time after time after time...... and that you have been the same answers time after time after time?

If that is the case then it’s time you seek professional help.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member

Thanatophobia, or fear of death, is a relatively complicated phobia. Many, if not most, people are afraid of dying. Some people fear being dead, while others are afraid of the actual act of dying. However, if the fear is so prevalent as to affect your daily life, then you might have a full-blown phobia.

upload_2020-6-21_11-15-0.jpeg


While a term for fear of Hell has been coined (stygiophobia – Doctor, Kahn, & Adamec, 2008), so far little else has been done with the concept beyond naming it. Some literature has preliminarily and more generally looked at the effects of Hell belief on attitudes and different aspects of mental health.

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1213

Well-Known Member

Those are about Sheol, not about Gehenna. Both are often called hell, but Gehenna is according to the Bible the second death, where death and Hades are thrown. And I believe Hades is same as Sheol.

…Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13?

I already posted this on Religions Q&A.But wanted to post it here to get a debate going.Because If I would of stared a debate on Religions Q&A the debate wouldn't have belonged there.:)

The biblical hell is not very descriptive or scary so to flesh it out into threats to those who don't agree with their particular vision the christian interpretation of hell is based on the works of Dante Alighieri and Hieronymus Bosch.

Good to know when my family and i are threatened with hell because we are all non believers those threats are based on art and a comedy
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Someone with less patience than I would be tearing his or her hair out right now, totally frustrated with you.

None of the verses you listed from Jewish scripture mention “hell”. From my understanding, your cite to Christian scripture also does not mention “hell”. Your translations are wrong.

What does it take to reach you? How many times do you need to be told that the translation used by you is faulty before that fact sinks in?

Is your memory that bad that you cannot remember that you have asked the same questions time after time after time...... and that you have been the same answers time after time after time?

If that is the case then it’s time you seek professional help.

There is part of fundamentalist Christianity that not only is original text of the Bible inerrant and given word for word by God, but that God also inspired the translators. There is no reasoning with these people.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
In spite of the loosely collected writings of hell somewhere !
There is not any hell !!
In spite of nut-cases of old !
Geeeeeeezzzz!

I believe you can believe God on this when He says there is one. Certainly I would never view an amateur as an expert.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
"Much of the Old Testament does not express a belief in a personal afterlife of reward or punishment:"

Then after a 300 year invasion by the Persians we see borrowings of their concepts including hell.

"Some scholars believe that many elements of Christian mythology, particularly its linear portrayal of time, originated with the Persian religion of Zoroastrianism.[29] Mary Boyce, an authority on Zoroastrianism, writes:
Zoroaster was thus the first to teach the doctrines of an individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, the future resurrection of the body, the general Last Judgment, and life everlasting for the reunited soul and body. These doctrines were to become familiar articles of faith to much of mankind, through borrowings by Judaism, Christianity and Islam.[30"
Christian mythology - Wikipedia

Mary Boyce is a serious scholar continuing to get degrees and awards into middle age. She studied in Iran with modern Zoroaster believers for one year and realized our current knowledge
(circa 1960) about their religious beliefs were wrong.

"Historical features of Zoroastrianism, such as messianism, judgment after death, heaven and hell, and free will may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Greek philosophy,[7] Christianity, Islam,[8] the Bahá'í Faith, and Buddhism.[9]"

One of their rulers who interacted with the Israelites, Cyrus was kind and allowed them to continue their religious practices. It's believed this warmed them to some of the concepts. Eventually Jewish prophets started having new prophecies about how they also have a judgment day and hell and so on...

Some of her book can be read here:

Zoroastrians

most of it can't be accessed but the chapter on belief in a world savior is interesting:
Zoroastrians
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13?

I already posted this on Religions Q&A.But wanted to post it here to get a debate going.Because If I would of stared a debate on Religions Q&A the debate wouldn't have belonged there.:)

Hi @Frank Goad

I can confirm that each of these sentences from your references refers to Hades ("sheol", "hell", "the grave", etc.) , and in doing so, they were written in the ancient historical context, rather than in later contexts (which are different).

Luke 16:23
gk: και εν τω αδη επαρας τους οφθαλμοθς
eng: and in hades lifted up [his] eyes…


Isaiah 14:9
gk: ο αδης κατωθεν επικρανθη συναντησας σοι
eng: the lower hades was embittered meeting you…


Psalms 86:13
gk: ερρυσω την φυχην μου εξ αδου κατατου.
eng: …rescue my soul from deep [lower] hades

However, your question in the O.P. worded : "What do you think of..." is not particularly clear and I cannot tell what the context of your question implies.

What are you wanting to discuss about the early historical version of Judeo-Christian hades (or are you referring to later evolutions of this doctrine)?

In any case, I hope you find the insight you are looking for.

Clear
φιφινεω
 
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Super Universe

Defender of God
What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13?

I already posted this on Religions Q&A.But wanted to post it here to get a debate going.Because If I would of stared a debate on Religions Q&A the debate wouldn't have belonged there.:)

The rich man is punished for being rich but the poor man is not rewarded for simply being poor.

There are seven levels of hell, the top level has the least torment.
 
This subject stir many opinions and much controversy. As for commenting on the scriptures, metaphors are being used for the readers to acquire a mental and graphic picture of the lesson being offered. Also, Jesus often taught a lesson by telling a story through the means of parables or illustrations-using similes and metaphors.

For example: Consider the account in Luke. The rich man well pictures the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous, wearing fine linen; and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar Lazarus, whose name means “God is helper,” well pictures the Jewish common people, who were despised by the clergy, who because of neglect were spiritually sick and were hungering and thirsting for righteousness, and who appreciated their need of the Great Physician, Christ Jesus.-John 7:49; Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

Furthermore, it is not reasonable or Scriptural to believe that a man suffers torment simply because he is rich, wears good clothing and has plenty to eat. It is not Scriptural to believe that one is blessed with heavenly life just because he is a beggar. Jesus said nothing about the rich man’s living a degraded life worthy of “fiery” punishment; the man’s failing was that he did not feed (spiritually) the poor. Further, Jesus said nothing about Lazarus’ doing good things, things that clearly would merit his going to heaven, which is what some churches claim is the meaning of his being taken to Abraham’s bosom. None of God’s servants had a heavenly reward held out to them before the coming of Christ Jesus. “No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.”-John 3:13.
 

Son of Ipos

New Member
Death, Hell & the Afterlife


Many people are understandably frightened in regards to "Hell" being a place of torture, eternal damnation, and fiery torment. Personally, since coming to Satan, I have had extensive experience both in working with human souls who have passed from this earth, and in seeing Satan's Hell which is a safe place for the souls who are there.

In contrast to souls who go to the light when leaving their physical bodies through death; Satan is responsible and protective. He sends Demons to escort Satanic souls to Hell. This is to ensure these souls will be protected from the light, which is of the enemy. In addition to working with many different Demons, Satan has had me work with human spirits. Though their physical bodies are dead, they are very much alive and do not like being referred to as "dead." I am talking those of importance in Hell. Most spirits who have resided in Hell, have reincarnated. Some are still there for specific reasons. I can tell you, Satan's Hell is not some place of fire and brimstone, but a safe haven for souls who are of Satan.

There is another place- the Christian "Hell" where Christian believers who fall short, wind up. This is where the horror stories come from and angels have taken some unfortunate individuals on a personal tour of this, as they are human hating.

This place of torment is not of Satan, but is and was created by the Judeo/Christian "God." Those who tie into Christian beliefs and energies are all vulnerable:

Matthew 25: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

The truth regarding the light seen by many in death and with near death experiences can be explained. The following quote taken from the Luciferian Liberation Front website article "Jesus of Borg" is quite accurate in many respects. Human souls are harvested by advanced extra-terrestrials for energy. These souls are "judged" according to how malleable they are. With any powers of the mind, energy must conform to the will of the operator in order for the working/s to be effective. Any resistance makes the soul unfit. Many believers who are deemed unfit are cast into torture and damnation.

Quote:
"When we dissect the cube of heaven we see that it is constructed like a living cell with its own system of energy circulation and metabolism. From all appearances, it is a giant solar battery/generator which allows the ONE mind of the collective G.O.D. to be able to feed off the life essences of the enslaved souls held within its "temple pillars" and redirect their energies according to the will of the ONE. When a human being dies, his life essence, spirit, or soul is scanned by the Soul Collectors who patrol the dimension between physical time/space and the finer dimension of subspace and these Collectors project an image before the just deceased soul of a life form that will be recognizable to the deceased, such as a relative or friend who had died before they had (a grandmother, religious figure, etc.). In this manner, the Soul Collector is able to get the newly deceased soul to lower his defenses. The Collector takes on the role of guide and attempts to lead the soul to the gates of the Holding Ship. In this Holding Ship, the spirit essence of the dead person is scanned again to determine its degree of purity of energy (its lack of resistant character traits) and its potential to provide nourishment to the collective mind of G.O.D. This potential is based on the degree that this spirit has been subdued through fear and dependence or how effective religious programming had been on this soul during its physical lifetime. Those spirits, which have little or no self-will and have been sufficiently programmed to serve G.O.D. during their lives will have the highest nourishment potential."
End of Quote
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The rich man is punished for being rich but the poor man is not rewarded for simply being poor.

There are seven levels of hell, the top level has the least torment.

I believe seven levels of hell is pure fantasy.

I believe the rich man was condemned for not showing the least amount of regard for the poor when he had more than enough at his disposal.

I agree. I believe he simply had a need of rest from the evils of this world.
 
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