define god...

[Breathe]

If something exists which I would define as god, I think human beings would have about as much a chance of understanding it's motivations, purpose, and nature, as a bacteria in your gut has of understanding your motivations, purpose, and nature. Perhaps less.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I think of God as this Transcendence which is affirmed and testified in all cultures and religions in differen ways of the matter... the problem is that in the West we are tied to notions that this Transcendence always appears as a Personal Dictator.

And yet, I do not understand why we say then, "I do not believe in God" when in reality, God is such an elusive, umbrella term for so many differing conceptions, it would require secondary questioning to escape that vagary.

God can be personal, God can be impersonal. God can be transcendent, God can be imminent. God could be a metaphor for the blessings of Mother Nature, God can be a literal omnibenevolent Being. In any case, I think we can agree that this Transcendence is a very high and lofty ideal that all humans latently experience, without the appropriate words to ever describe it.

 

[shammy]

and what do you have to support that definition?

Evidence
opinion
hope
_______ fill in the blank...

defintion of god

he is one; eternally besought of all
he begetteth not, nor begotten
there is none comparable upto him

 

[Mellonhead]

defintion of god

he is one; eternally besought of all
he begetteth not, nor begotten
there is none comparable upto him

I claim to compare to God. Prove me wrong.

 

[waitasec]

the problem is that in the West we are tied to notions that this Transcendence always appears as a Personal Dictator.

And yet, I do not understand why we say then, "I do not believe in God" when in reality, God is such an elusive, umbrella term for so many differing conceptions, it would require secondary questioning to escape that vagary.

it is because i live in the west that i say i do not believe in god...the personal dictator. the god that tells me i have the right to infringe on your inalienable rights... the god that also tells me i have the right to protest at your sons funeral...

God can be personal, God can be impersonal. God can be transcendent, God can be imminent. God could be a metaphor for the blessings of Mother Nature, God can be a literal omnibenevolent Being. In any case, I think we can agree that this Transcendence is a very high and lofty ideal that all humans latently experience, without the appropriate words to ever describe it.

then the idea of god is subjective and not absolute. problem with that is, the big 3 monotheistic religions believe they have the right subjective view of god, and we have all been witnesses to where that leads.

 

[Breathe]

it is because i live in the west that i say i do not believe in god...the personal dictator. the god that tells me i have the right to infringe on your inalienable rights... the god that also tells me i have the right to protest at your sons funeral...

But by that standard, then neither do I believe in God.
Yet I do, just not in that kind of deity...

 

[waitasec]

But by that standard, then neither do I believe in God.
Yet I do, just not in that kind of deity...

i consider myself anti theistic...i suppose.
leaning towards naturalistic pantheism from an agnostic POV...

 

[Breathe]

i consider myself anti theistic...i suppose.

Anti-theistic or anti-Celestial-Dictator-ist?

Would you consider say, panentheistic, pantheistic, Deistic, etc gods in the same way? Or do you specifically only think about the Abrahamic gods here?

 

[waitasec]

Anti-theistic or anti-Celestial-Dictator-ist?

aren't they the same thing...

Would you consider say, panentheistic, pantheistic, Deistic, etc gods in the same way? Or do you specifically only think about the Abrahamic gods here?

considering my background as an evangelical christian...the abrahamic god.
i'm more inclined toward a naturalistic pantheism

 

[YmirGF]

God can be personal, God can be impersonal. God can be transcendent, God can be imminent. God could be a metaphor for the blessings of Mother Nature, God can be a literal omnibenevolent Being. In any case, I think we can agree that this Transcendence is a very high and lofty ideal that all humans latently experience, without the appropriate words to ever describe it.

So, in effect, "god" can mean whatever one wants it to mean and if it is indeed transcendent then it's not like anyone will be any the wiser, as they will never really know.

 

[Breathe]

aren't they the same thing...

No; I don't think so.

Abrahamic gods are only a small, but incredibly powerful and influential, subset of theism, in my opinion. I consider myself a theist, but I don't consider myself Abrahamic, at all.

To me, it's like saying you're anti-politics because you don't like communism; while that's a large part of politics (at least, in the early 19th and 20th centuries), it's not the be-all and end-all of politics.

i'm more inclined toward a naturalistic pantheism

Curious; how does naturalistic pantheism work in your eyes?
What is meant by the naturalistic part here? I know what it means, just not entirely sure what you are attempting to hint at, so I'm asking to make sure I have it right.

Do you think the universe is sapient/sentient?

If not, how do you correlate naturalistic pantheism with plain old atheism?


Hope you don't mind me asking lots of questions.

 

[Gaura Priya]

then the idea of god is subjective and not absolute. problem with that is, the big 3 monotheistic religions believe they have the right subjective view of god, and we have all been witnesses to where that leads.

Heck yeah!

Trying to define 'God' is like trying to define religion.

Or let's have what Jainism, Sikhism, Hinduism, and Buddhism all have to say about defining the term 'Dharma.'

Even then, the monotheistic conceptions of God (save Christianity's truly strange Trinitarian doctrine) differ in the slightest to each other; for example, in the Baha'i Faith, God is very rarely described in anthropomorphic terms, save in poetic metaphors, and rather described in attributes or qualities, such as the Merciful, the Kind, the Generous, the Bountiful, etc.

I dislike the idea that the Abrahamic religions trademark 'God,' and yet the idea of God has always been subjective and not absolute. There is a good thread in the Buddhism DIR about how a theistic form of Buddhism actually may not defy Buddhist principles.

 

[waitasec]

No; I don't think so.

Abrahamic gods are only a small, but incredibly powerful and influential, subset of theism, in my opinion. I consider myself a theist, but I don't consider myself Abrahamic, at all.

To me, it's like saying you're anti-politics because you don't like communism; while that's a large part of politics (at least, in the early 19th and 20th centuries), it's not the be-all and end-all of politics.

that makes sense.

Curious; how does naturalistic pantheism work in your eyes?
What is meant by the naturalistic part here? I know what it means, just not entirely sure what you are attempting to hint at, so I'm asking to make sure I have it right.

i suppose it is relating to conditions as they actually are rather than smoothing out the edges... i accept that indifference/chaos is what i am subjected to in a big way...

Do you think the universe is sapient/sentient?

no

If not, how do you correlate naturalistic pantheism with plain old atheism?

i guess it's the force that connects everything and how we are a byproduct of that energy while being aware there is no reason for it...

Hope you don't mind me asking lots of questions.

not at all...this is actually fun

 

[Gaura Priya]

aren't they the same thing...

Absolutely not!

If they were, I would be an atheist too!:thud:

 

[waitasec]

Hope you don't mind me asking lots of questions.

Absolutely not!

If they were, I would be an atheist too!:thud:

i have a question for you two...
does the idea of a deity bring comfort to you?

 

[Gaura Priya]

i have a question for you two...
does the idea of a deity bring comfort to you?

Yes and no.


Contextually, I'm a panentheist.

It brings me big discomfort that I have put my trust and belief and faith in something that appears completely irrational. And yet I have comfort in understanding that this broad, vague word called 'God' represents the good and highly valued in every culture. Even an atheist who utilises the word God to represent eir most valued thing to them, finds much joy and blessing in that.

I think of religion as the realm of poetry. It uses metaphors, poetic devices, similes and parallelisms, and other things to express a different side of reality. It is when that poetry becomes published and sold that it loses its savour of personalism and individual inspiration, and becomes highly mechanised, institutionalised, and dogmatic.

In Hinduism, the most popular idea of God is Advaita Vedanta, which is a big propogator of monism, and sees all these religious ideas as mere symbolism and metaphor for this transcendent, imminent and non-causal force tying together the universe, and you and I. This is no Celestial Dictator popularised by Western atheists and religionists, but a God that has a very different meaning and understanding to the term.

 

[Breathe]

i have a question for you two...
does the idea of a deity bring comfort to you?

What do you mean by "bring comfort"?
What kind of God concept do you think I have?

I'd like to know these two questions before I can answer clearly.

 

[waitasec]

Yes and no.


Contextually, I'm a panentheist.

It brings me big discomfort that I have put my trust and belief and faith in something that appears completely irrational. And yet I have comfort in understanding that this broad, vague word called 'God' represents the good and highly valued in every culture. Even an atheist who utilises the word God to represent eir most valued thing to them, finds much joy and blessing in that.

I think of religion as the realm of poetry. It uses metaphors, poetic devices, similes and parallelisms, and other things to express a different side of reality. It is when that poetry becomes published and sold that it loses its savour of personalism and individual inspiration, and becomes highly mechanised, institutionalised, and dogmatic.

In Hinduism, the most popular idea of God is Advaita Vedanta, which is a big propogator of monism, and sees all these religious ideas as mere symbolism and metaphor for this transcendent, imminent and non-causal force tying together the universe, and you and I. This is no Celestial Dictator popularised by Western atheists and religionists, but a God that has a very different meaning and understanding to the term.

that makes sense to me too...

as a musician, i can see how human interaction brings forth art.
which makes me a keenly aware of human solidarity.

since i can remember the abrahamic ideal of god has been implanted so deeply in my psyche that it really took me years to change my perception because i struggled with the division religion provoked. it seemed so individualistic, especially when we "worshipped"; eyes were closed, hands reaching towards the heavens... i could never quite reconcile the companionship and responsibilities people innately feel towards one another while 'preferring', for lack of a better word, being alone with this god who demanded being revered...

i accept a pantheistic world view however i cannot accept a deity who is concerned about how i perceive it.

 

[waitasec]

What do you mean by "bring comfort"?
What kind of God concept do you think I have?

I'd like to know these two questions before I can answer clearly.

by comfort, i mean a sense of purpose

i'm not sure, that's why i asked?
:flower:

 

[Breathe]

by comfort, i mean a sense of purpose

...No, I don't think it does.

If there was no God, I would be more or less the same as I am now. You wouldn't find me bawling about it or thinking my life was over or anything. I don't use my belief in the All-in-One as a crutch.

i'm not sure, that's why i asked?
:flower:

Thanks for the flower

Honestly though, it's not an Abrahamic God concept. I suppose I could explain but it's going a bit long-winded and off-topic, so I dunno how interested you and others would be.