Degradation of Porn

[Duke_Leto]

@Kirran, if it makes you feel any better, I usually don’t use visual stimuli when wanking. ツ

Anyway, who’d have thunk a bunch of religious people would have hangups about sexuality? I wholeheartedly believe people only get so worked up about this issue because they don’t have allow themselves a healthy and natural release occasionally. The longer you go without, the more intrusive and intense sexual thoughts become.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I agree. Let us make sex education better.
Now see, I’m versed somewhat in the “canon” so I could just as easily point to the Libertine movement.
Existed during the 1700s, they were a hedonistic movement heavily involved in BDSM practices. We literally survived for centuries afterwards.
Like you want to talk to me about so called immoral degrading media. Let’s go. I have a goldmine in the form of what we call now “classical literature.”
People have and always will seek out sex in entertainment. Often very unrealistic portrayals. You know, that whole fantasy thing?
To treat this revelation as something new belies an ignorance of human history. So let us attack the true villain. Lack of education. Let us make it robust and befitting a modern society, which we like to pretend we live in

I'll reply to your other post.

 

[Kirran]

@Kirran, if it makes you feel any better, I usually don’t use visual stimuli when wanking. ツ

Anyway, who’d have thunk a bunch of religious people would have hangups about sexuality? I wholeheartedly believe people only get so worked up about this issue because they don’t have allow themselves a healthy and natural release occasionally. The longer you go without, the more intrusive and intense sexual thoughts become.

It makes me a feel a lot better, Duke

I am sure you are right that sexual repression is a real thing for a lot of people, religious and otherwise. But I like to feel I'm not one of them, if you're alluding to such. Although I'm not sure I wanna go into details of my sex life here

 

[SomeRandom]

Believe me, I have no issue at all with people jerking off! I was pretty surprised when I was in uni, and a friend of mine said 'Oh did you go for a w***? Oh no, wait, you didn't have your laptop, nevermind'. There's that reliance so many people have developed on gratuitous visual stimulation to even be able to get aroused.
!

Some people respond better to visual stimuli. Some don’t need it. Perhaps it’s sort of like people who are visual learners vs verbal. I dunno.

Addiction to anything is not beneficial.

I know -_- I may even have had casual sex. But it's still different to just consuming imagery!

Yes it is. Only mentally imbalanced or uneducated people conflate porn with “actual” sex.
No one goes to a strip show with a lady dressed like a school ma’am and says, wow, I should go have sex with a strict looking teacher in real life.

Porn as a product is first and foremost a fantasy.
And idealised or even dangerous/taboo fetish.
But reality will rarely live up to fantasy of any kind.

All I’m seeing is a need to have in depth sexual education for kids. And getting our prudish society to see sex workers as people who are just doing their jobs.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well there is porn that doesn’t actually portray women as weak or objects, believe it or not. Not all porn is sexist or racist or whatever ist you can think of. Because like all supply and demand, there are people who make the porn they want to see. Sometimes that means what my health teacher dubbed “vegan porn.” Lol

Porn services a need, a need that is intrinsic in people and has existed as long as our species has existed. Porn itself has existed for far longer than modern day. Prostitution is the world’s oldest profession and all that.

We can’t ban sport because of the symptoms that flow onto the rest of society that it largely elicits. Alcohol induced violence, unhealthy drinking culture and enabling gambling addiction.
We can’t ban McDonald’s because of obesity. We can’t ban sugar because it’s addictive and can cause diabetes.
We can’t ban I dunno, Rock n Roll due to crazy concerts that have literally killed people.
Because people will revolt.

People have outlets, some people take things too far. But pushing a vice underground serves no beneficial purpose and I’d argue is far more detrimental. Because if it’s underground, how do you change it for the better? Say we make porn illegal, for argument’s sake. It will still exist, just illegally. Because the demand will always be there. So if we manage to make it illegal how then do you ensure that sex workers are protected under fair work laws? How do you eliminate the criminal element in something (sex trafficking) when you literally make the enterprise ostensibly surrounding it criminal? And how do you help addicts too afraid to ask for help because they don’t want to be seen as a criminal?


Your concern is that porn gives unrealistic expectations. Fine, a fair assessment. Instead of wagging our fingers at the industry, campaign for change within it. Incentivise the industry to protect workers, to ensure everyone is a consenting adult under their own volition, that everyone is screened for STDs constantly and portrayals are more healthy. (Of course there are very dark sexual fantasies. So pretending they don’t exist wont work either. But a balance is not a bad idea.)

Of course porn is not new. We know from the earliest scrawlings on a cave or Roman wall that humans have done so. But there has been an enormous change in what is depicted. Which is why perhaps so many seem to not see that much of the material is fantasy but rather reflects reality. Some studies have shown for example that children do see porn as reflecting reality, and their behaviour towards others often negatively reflects this. There is virtually no limit these days and much just doesn't reflect reality - unless one expects rather nasty behaviour from others as the norm.

I am of an age to have witnessed the transition from rather benign depictions of females in glamour magazines to a much more explicit nature - in the 1970s, and mostly done for commercial profit it seems. I am not against porn at all. What I would like to see is a more controlled environment so that it is put back into perspective. One might make the claim that it has freed us all from sexual prudery, perhaps it has, but I think we have overstepped the mark and mostly because commercial interests were the driving factor. Now of course most porn can be obtained for free so perhaps they rather shot themselves in the foot with that. They deserved it!

So of course I do have some knowledge of the history of porn - the first still photography was quick to capitalise on this and it existed in graphical form long before then. We are now in an age where reality is not reality - deepfakes for example and the rest - so perhaps we shouldn't just accept that what we have now is just a normal progression from what we had before but something more sinister.

No doubt many can handle their porn usage, and porn is no doubt beneficial to many, but I doubt it actually is that beneficial overall to a culture when it often distorts the reality of sex or sexual relationships for so many others. But we do have the choice to view such material - if we have the freedom to do so - many don't of course where pornography is banned.

If anyone can say that porn has enhanced their life or had no detrimental effects then no problem. For many this is not true.

 

[Duke_Leto]

It makes me a feel a lot better, Duke

I am sure you are right that sexual repression is a real thing for a lot of people, religious and otherwise. But I like to feel I'm not one of them, if you're alluding to such. Although I'm not sure I wanna go into details of my sex life here

Oh, no! I just wasn’t careful enough in my words. By “religious” I was (as you probably guessed) thinking of the Abrahamic religionists — I apologize. Chalk it up to it being pretty late in my timezone.

Anyway, I’m sure your sex life is fascinating, so if you find you simply have to share it with us, don’t expect any objections from me!

 

[Kirran]

Some people respond better to visual stimuli. Some don’t need it. Perhaps it’s sort of like people who are visual learners vs verbal. I dunno.

Addiction to anything is not beneficial.


Yes it is. Only mentally imbalanced or uneducated people conflate porn with “actual” sex.
No one goes to a strip show with a lady dressed like a school ma’am and says, wow, I should go have sex with a strict looking teacher in real life.

Porn as a product is first and foremost a fantasy.
And idealised or even dangerous/taboo fetish.
But reality will rarely live up to fantasy of any kind.

All I’m seeing is a need to have in depth sexual education for kids. And getting our prudish society to see sex workers as people who are just doing their jobs.

Well, I think our views are a little different on this, but we're both nice sorts of people so it's all good. And we're in the same general direction in things.

Oh, no! I just wasn’t careful enough in my words. By “religious” I was (as you probably guessed) thinking of the Abrahamic religionists — I apologize. Chalk it up to it being pretty late in my timezone.

Anyway, I’m sure your sex life is fascinating, so if you find you simply have to share it with us, don’t expect any objections from me!

Haha, well, I think my girlfriend might be a little unimpressed to hear about me having shared details on the Internet forums!

 

[SomeRandom]

Of course porn is not new. We know from the earliest scrawlings on a cave or Roman wall that humans have done so. But there has been an enormous change in what is depicted. Which is why perhaps so many seem to not see that much of the material is fantasy but rather reflects reality. Some studies have shown for example that children do see porn as reflecting reality, and their behaviour towards others often negatively reflects this. There is virtually no limit these days and much just doesn't reflect reality - unless one expects rather nasty behaviour from others as the norm.

I am of an age to have witnessed the transition from rather benign depictions of females in glamour magazines to a much more explicit nature - in the 1970s, and mostly done for commercial profit it seems. I am not against porn at all. What I would like to see is a more controlled environment so that it is put back into perspective. One might make the claim that it has freed us all from sexual prudery, perhaps it has, but I think we have overstepped the mark and mostly because commercial interests were the driving factor. Now of course most porn can be obtained for free so perhaps they rather shot themselves in the foot with that. They deserved it!

So of course I do have some knowledge of the history of porn - the first still photography was quick to capitalise on this and it existed in graphical form long before then. We are now in an age where reality is not reality - deepfakes for example and the rest - so perhaps we shouldn't just accept that what we have now is just a normal progression from what we had before but something more sinister.

No doubt many can handle their porn usage, and porn is no doubt beneficial to many, but I doubt it actually is that beneficial overall to a culture when it often distorts the reality of sex or sexual relationships for so many others. But we do have the choice to view such material - if we have the freedom to do so - many don't of course where pornography is banned.

If anyone can say that porn has enhanced their life or had no detrimental effects then no problem. For many this is not true.

Studies showing children being negatively affected? Firstly, why are children watching porn? Pornography is specifically rated R18+ at least where I live. Secondly they’re kids, of course they’d mimic the behaviour of the stimuli they’re interacting with. That’s how humans learn.
If kids watch Tarintino films they’d probably interact poorly with their peers too. Because they literally don’t know any better. Sure many kids can distinguish reality and fantasy, but media is not a replacement for teaching them interpersonal skills. I hate to be one of “those” people, but where the hell are the parents? Letting kids watch porn, geez.
I understand it’s harder to monitor these days with the internet, but all the more reason for our society to be proactive with the sexual education of kids.
I don’t need a study to tell me that kids will pick up negative habits from watching porn. Kids pick up bad habits from watching their parents.

 

[SomeRandom]

Well, I think our views are a little different on this, but we're both nice sorts of people so it's all good. And we're in the same general direction in things.
!

I suspect we agree on this issue more than disagree.

 

[Duke_Leto]

Haha, well, I think my girlfriend might be a little unimpressed to hear about me having shared details on the Internet forums!

Perhaps she’d be delighted to learn you think her worth talking about? シ

 

[Kirran]

Perhaps she’d be delighted to learn you think her worth talking about? シ

Gosh, we've rather gone off on one

 

[Mock Turtle]

Studies showing children being negatively affected? Firstly, why are children watching porn?

Erm, because they are often more savvy than adults with new technology (and curious of course), and because information is passed around schoolyards as easily as laughter and shunning? How do you stop that? Look up first time for seeing porn in children - often as young as 11.

Pornography is specifically rated R18+ at least where I live. Secondly they’re kids, of course they’d mimic the behaviour of the stimuli they’re interacting with. That’s how humans learn.

Access to phones, tablets, etc. (probably in the 90% region or higher now for very young kids) often means they are viewing material, TV and the internet, not meant for them (even with parental controls). And often down to parents not adequately monitoring their activities. Also, just look up the problems we have with children being drawn into illegal activities via the internet - chatrooms and such, for example. Much illegal porn now involves children being involved in grooming and such via the internet, so new forms of abuse are occurring.

If kids watch Tarintino films they’d probably interact poorly with their peers too. Because they literally don’t know any better. Sure many kids can distinguish reality and fantasy, but media is not a replacement for teaching them interpersonal skills. I hate to be one of “those” people, but where the hell are the parents? Letting kids watch porn, geez.
I understand it’s harder to monitor these days with the internet, but all the more reason for our society to be proactive with the sexual education of kids.
I don’t need a study to tell me that kids will pick up negative habits from watching porn. Kids pick up bad habits from watching their parents.

What I am saying is that what they are exposed to is much more different from what many generations before were exposed to - and not necessarily in any good way.

 

[SomeRandom]

Erm, because they are often more savvy than adults with new technology (and curious of course), and because information is passed around schoolyards as easily as laughter and shunning? How do you stop that? Look up first time for seeing porn in children - often as young as 11.

Well I was being slightly facetious. I'm just saying, kids as young as 11 can watch the Saw movies too. And probably will pick up very bad social skills, develop anxiety or otherwise be traumatized by the experience. Thing is the Saw Franchise and Pornography are specifically made for an adult market, so how is this proof of anything other than kids shouldn't be viewing material aimed at adults?
You can't stop it, that's why I advocate for frank, in depth education and discussion for all kids. Tackle the issue head on.

Access to phones, tablets, etc. (probably in the 90% region or higher now for very young kids) often means they are viewing material, TV and the internet, not meant for them (even with parental controls). And often down to parents not adequately monitoring their activities. Also, just look up the problems we have with children being drawn into illegal activities via the internet - chatrooms and such, for example. Much illegal porn now involves children being involved in grooming and such via the internet, so new forms of abuse are occurring.

That was happening when I was in school. They tried to curb this by introducing mandatory classes about internet safety.

I think those classes are more nuanced now than when I took them.

What I am saying is that what they are exposed to is much more different from what many generations before were exposed to - and not necessarily in any good way.

People have been saying that for literal generations as well. Show someone who was born in the early 1800s the 1930s Universal Monster films and they'd likely have a heart attack. I have a book "written by" freaking Plato essentially claiming this. More or less. (Maybe I'm thinking of the "evils of youth" spiel hmm.) Either way society has cried wolf one too many times. Not your fault, I know. I'm just saying, forgive me my eye roll.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well I was being slightly facetious. I'm just saying, kids as young as 11 can watch the Saw movies too. And probably will pick up very bad social skills, develop anxiety or otherwise be traumatized by the experience. Thing is the Saw Franchise and Pornography are specifically made for an adult market, so how is this proof of anything other than kids shouldn't be viewing material aimed at adults?
You can't stop it, that's why I advocate for frank, in depth education and discussion for all kids. Tackle the issue head on.


That was happening when I was in school. They tried to curb this by introducing mandatory classes about internet safety.

I think those classes are more nuanced now than when I took them.


People have been saying that for literal generations as well. I have a book "written by" freaking Plato essentially claiming this. More or less. Society has cried wolf one too many times. Not your fault, I know. I'm just saying, forgive me my eye roll.

I know the problem is being tackled in schools - not sure how effective it will be though. Perhaps kids will just get bored of porn, as many adults might. And I'm sure such alarms were raised in the past just as much - Victorian hemlines for example - but we can only observe and speculate. I don't know. Everything in the garden might turn out rosy after all.

 

[SomeRandom]

I know the problem is being tackled in schools - not sure how effective it will be though. Perhaps kids will just get bored of porn, as many adults might. And I'm sure such alarms were raised in the past just as much - Victorian hemlines for example - but we can only observe and speculate. I don't know. Everything in the garden might turn out rosy after all.

Lol I'm hedging my bets on porn becoming interactive with Virtual Reality technology. Mark my words, they'll be having sex with robots next

 

[Mock Turtle]

Lol I'm hedging my bets on porn becoming interactive with Virtual Reality technology. Mark my words, they'll be having sex with robots next

Only until the robots can form a union to protest about exploitation.

 

[SomeRandom]

Only until the robots can form a union to protest about exploitation.

Hmm. I am now suddenly thinking of Asimov. I, Robot indeed.

 

[SomeRandom]

So Christians cannot sin? That is amazing. I did not know that.

Didn't you hear? Christians are all perfect beings without flaws thanks to the mighty power of Jesus!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You mean hypocrites who claim to be Christians. Jesus has already stated in the scriptures what He thinks.

This is why God is the most merciful...Because he made human beings to be creatures who naturally act according to their nature. God knows we lust. God knows we masturbate and God knows that we have carnal pleasures because of our nature. He designed us this way. I even believe when we turn from our Creator he love us more because we don't know any better.....

You gotta have mercy bro bro

 

[Shaul]

It can be if harnessed properly.

No. Ultimately all selfishness is transitory vanity. Only that which we do for others has lasting significance.