Deidre's Journey

[Sundance]

A polytheist? That's interesting! Who are these ''gods?''

I believe in the gods as the highest of spirits (those I consider most worthy of worship). The spirits themselves I envision as being present in the forces of nature, the elements, different places and people, in thoughts, words, or ideas, even in inanimate objects . For me, they're present everywhere, in everything and everyone!

At the same time, the various kinds of spirits, and even each of ours, I see as different personalizations of a Singular Impersonal Essence which weaves through all of Life and binds it together.

 

[Deidre]

I believe in the gods as the highest of spirits (those I consider most worthy of worship). The spirits themselves I envision as being present in the forces of nature, the elements, different places and people, in thoughts, words, or ideas, even in inanimate objects . For me, they're present everywhere, in everything and everyone!

At the same time, the various kinds of spirits, and even each of ours, I see as different personalizations of a Singular Impersonal Essence which weaves through all of Life and binds it together.

I've never thought of worship in that way, you're an interesting soul, DJ

 

[Sundance]

I've never thought of worship in that way, you're an interesting soul, DJ

Interesting? A descriptor I'd never apply to myself.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I don't feel that way, now, though. I'm not angry over religion. I'd say that sitting on a fence can be worse than being angry or blissful, when choosing a 'side.'

Any time you carve up reality into 'sides' there are multiple ways to do it.
The atheist/theist dichotomy is one. But you could equally use secularist/non-secularist. Extremist/moderate. Speaker/listener.
Or better still, see the dichotomies for what they are. Shorthand abbreviations, nothing more.

Looked at in that sense, are you really sitting on a fence? I would imagine plenty about you is consistent, whichever side of the theist/atheist fence you're on, because many aspects remain unchanged.

I sometimes envy the militant atheist, or the blind faithful who wake up every day...knowing. Just knowing. Or at least they think feel confident that they know.

Well...certainty can be easier. As long as you can deny the little sarcastic voice that lives in the back of your head. Because he knows you're only fooling yourself. Unless it's only my head that little voice lives in, of course. I somehow doubt it.

 

[DavidFirth]

Okay. I just wondered. Are you a fundamentalist, would you say?

No, I wouldn't say that.

 

[Deidre]

Interesting? A descriptor I'd never apply to myself.

Well, others sometimes think of us differently than we see ourselves.

Any time you carve up reality into 'sides' there are multiple ways to do it.
The atheist/theist dichotomy is one. But you could equally use secularist/non-secularist. Extremist/moderate. Speaker/listener.
Or better still, see the dichotomies for what they are. Shorthand abbreviations, nothing more.

Looked at in that sense, are you really sitting on a fence? I would imagine plenty about you is consistent, whichever side of the theist/atheist fence you're on, because many aspects remain unchanged.



Well...certainty can be easier. As long as you can deny the little sarcastic voice that lives in the back of your head. Because he knows you're only fooling yourself. Unless it's only my head that little voice lives in, of course. I somehow doubt it.

That's a great way to analyze it. I'd say my mind is that of an atheist, my heart is that of a believer, but not a theist, anymore. Theism in general, is a problem to me.

No, I wouldn't say that.

Okay.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Are you still umming and erring over this thing Deidre? You know I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure...(boom tish, ladies and gentlemen ey thank you!).

You say you are no longer a theist in your mind, you don't believe god(s) exist so fine you're an atheist. I consider myself a strong atheist, but I am also agnostic, I continue to leave myself open to the possibility that I'm wrong. One of the reasons I come on here is to have my own thoughts and beliefs challenged. As unlikely as it seems to me right now, I may end up a theist again if I see evidence that amounts to more than just religious talk. Certainty is overrated; second time I've written that on the forum today! However I'm certain that's true (oh damn, certainty is a bad thing, trapped by my own logic!).

Don't get me wrong, I don't yearn for a "spiritual" aspect to my life, though I owe it to myself if nothing else to keep on thinking, to keep on exploring. I'll let you know if I find anything!

 

[DavidFirth]

Are you still umming and erring over this thing Deidre? You know I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure...(boom tish, ladies and gentlemen ey thank you!).

You say you are no longer a theist in your mind, you don't believe god(s) exist so fine you're an atheist. I consider myself a strong atheist, but I am also agnostic, I continue to leave myself open to the possibility that I'm wrong. One of the reasons I come on here is to have my own thoughts and beliefs challenged. As unlikely as it seems to me right now, I may end up a theist again if I see evidence that amounts to more than just religious talk. Certainty is overrated; second time I've written that on the forum today! However I'm certain that's true (oh damn, certainty is a bad thing, trapped by my own logic!).

Don't get me wrong, I don't yearn for a "spiritual" aspect to my life, though I owe it to myself if nothing else to keep on thinking, to keep on exploring. I'll let you know if I find anything!

You are very wise in that you profess that a god of some kind could exist. There is no way you can prove none do so this is a wise belief on your part.

 

[Deidre]

Are you still umming and erring over this thing Deidre? You know I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure...(boom tish, ladies and gentlemen ey thank you!).

haaaaa you're soooo funny

You say you are no longer a theist in your mind, you don't believe god(s) exist so fine you're an atheist. I consider myself a strong atheist, but I am also agnostic, I continue to leave myself open to the possibility that I'm wrong. One of the reasons I come on here is to have my own thoughts and beliefs challenged. As unlikely as it seems to me right now, I may end up a theist again if I see evidence that amounts to more than just religious talk. Certainty is overrated; second time I've written that on the forum today! However I'm certain that's true (oh damn, certainty is a bad thing, trapped by my own logic!).

Well, where I'm at with it, is not over thinking it anymore, and just feeling what I feel. You're right, why do we have to be absolutely certain of one thing or another? Except to say, that once you do realize that faith is largely a manifestation of one's feelings, then it's hard to completely buy into it anymore. That's also where I'm at.

Don't get me wrong, I don't yearn for a "spiritual" aspect to my life, though I owe it to myself if nothing else to keep on thinking, to keep on exploring. I'll let you know if I find anything!

Even Einstein believed that we can't know everything, and that there may be something beyond all of this. I think part of my issue comes from believing that the sum total of a god's existence must come in the form of the Abrahamic faiths. If a god exists, he/it is likely nothing of what we may have imagined.

You are very wise in that you profess that a god of some kind could exist. There is no way you can prove none do so this is a wise belief on your part.

Agreed Mr. Firth.

 

[Desert Snake]

No, I wouldn't say that.

'Fundamentalist' to me, means an emphasis on the basics concerning real Christian ideas, and textual adherence. It might have "other meanings", however the word inference, literally, simply means a traditional Christian.

 

[DavidFirth]

'Fundamentalist' to me, means an emphasis on the basics concerning real Christian ideas, and textual adherence. It might have "other meanings", however the word inference, literally, simply means a traditional Christian.

I don't consider myself to be a traditional Christian. I adhere to both Protestant and Catholic ideals, not choosing one over the other.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

You are very wise in that you profess that a god of some kind could exist. There is no way you can prove none do so this is a wise belief on your part.

Well thanks David, but I don't think it is "wise" as much as rational not to declare anything is so without evidence. I'm pretty sure that if pressed even the most caustic atheists on the forum would concede that they cannot rule out the possibility of a deity or deities being real, even if they say it is an infinitesimally small possibility.
There may be truth in saying everybody is agnostic when it comes down to it, but we still enjoy a good punch up every now and then!

 

[DavidFirth]

Well thanks David, but I don't think it is "wise" as much as rational not to declare anything is so without evidence. I'm pretty sure that if pressed even the most caustic atheists on the forum would concede that they cannot rule out the possibility of a deity or deities being real, even if they say it is an infinitesimally small possibility.
There may be truth in saying everybody is agnostic when it comes down to it, but we still enjoy a good punch up every now and then!

I just wished to point out that at least you are not just arbitrarily ruling the existence of God out. There is evidence that He exists but I'm not going to preach to you because I doubt you want to hear it.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Well, where I'm at with it, is not over thinking it anymore, and just feeling what I feel. You're right, why do we have to be absolutely certain of one thing or another? Except to say, that once you do realize that faith is largely a manifestation of one's feelings, then it's hard to completely buy into it anymore. That's also where I'm at.

Sure, feelings, cultural background, personal life history, it all feeds into what we believe. Trying to extricate yourself from all that baggage and see the 'bigger picture' isn't easy. I'll never stop learning I hope.

Even Einstein believed that we can't know everything, and that there may be something beyond all of this. I think part of my issue comes from believing that the sum total of a god's existence must come in the form of the Abrahamic faiths. If a god exists, he/it is likely nothing of what we may have imagined.

Yes, again our cultural heritage steers us in particular directions. I didn't spend much time dwelling on Hinduism as a young man because it was not part of the culture with which I am familiar. Cultural prejudice, I was quite happy to dismiss it without knowing anything about it. These days, after interacting with a couple of Hindus on the forum, I suspect they are way ahead in much of what they believe. They even allow atheists in!

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I just wished to point out that at least you are not just arbitrarily ruling the existence of God out. There is evidence that He exists but I'm not going to preach to you because I doubt you want to hear it.

OK, understood mate. I am aware that there is a case for the historicity of the bible, I spent many years exploring and pondering it - I still do so today if the truth be told, though these days I'm more likely to be reading Bart Ehrman than NT Wright or Craig Blomberg. It is damnably interesting if for no other reason the influence the bible has had on shaping our culture. The pen is mightier than the sword and all that.

 

[Deidre]

While I realize that the Bible states that Jesus told his followers to ''make disciples of all nations,'' I can't help but think that passage has been distorted by believers to mean that they can badger people or shame people into believing. First, that will never work. Second, Jesus also spoke about not ''over'' preaching, or going to places where his followers weren't welcome. I think there needs to be a balance with it. My thought is that when I was a practicing Christian, I would share my faith, but not in an intrusive way...it was often in context with what was being discussed at the time. If the person didn't have an interest, I just moved on. I wasn't really trying to get people interested in converting, I was just interested in sharing my faith, and how it brought me joy. That's what is missing from many Christians. I see a lot of preaching and chastising (judging) and not enough joy.

 

[Deidre]

Dear journal,

An interesting observation. During this journey, those who have been the most loving and most supportive are atheists. My Christian "friends" have been the least understanding and most judgmental. Verrryyy interesting, indeed. And by supportive, atheists aren't trying to sway me from faith, they're just there for me to listen and be friends.

In other news, I'm so tired today. I slept well but went to bed too late. Times like these, I envy vampires.

 

[Deidre]

Dear journal,

I've decided to come here instead of keeping my emotions bottled up like I sometimes do. There's a part of me that feels like no one understands me. Some people say they do but lately, I feel like no one gets what it means to question your beliefs and feel nervous about those doubts. Not nervous about where I'm going when I die, but nervous that what I'm feeling is normal.

 

[Deidre]

I've shared this with a few people here, but I got married in May of this year. My husband is a non-theist, but if I had to label him, I'd say he's probably an agnostic. But, in some ways, I feel like we're all a little agnostic, to be honest. Agnosticism seems like a place of knowledge (certainty or lack of certainty) while atheism is a position of belief (lack of belief)

My husband thinks that maybe I'm complicating things too much, and to just go with what I feel most drawn to, naturally. He thinks that my heart and mind may never agree, and that's okay. He could be right.

And maybe, life is about the journey, and not the destination?

 

[Deidre]

Dear journal,

What a difference one day makes. Feeling more resolved and like spiritual atheism/agnosticism fits where I'm at on my journey right now. It allows me the freedom to be me, to think freely and to allow myself to expand my definition of God. But in a way, I can remain intellectually honest as well, which is also important to me. Ahhh!

Good morning it is!