Democrats only: Are there lessons to be learned for team Harris?

[Koldo]

I'm not sure there is any evidence that supports that, just seems like the kind of think people assume because it fits their narrative.

What other explanation is there for Biden managing to get 81 million votes, but Harris not getting past 70-ish while running against the same guy? Any significant platform change (such as doing the opposite of what Biden proposed)? Any massive failure? Nope and Nope.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Bingo. This attitude is why men are leaving the dem party. Go on the DNC website and look at the "Who we serve" link. Nowhere are men represented in this list. Men are falling behind in education, jobs, most homeless and drug addicts are men, men are lonelier and have less friends than women, have more depression, have less opportunity for scholarships or social programs. Men don't feel wanted in society and are blamed for most everything wrong in society. Anyone that has a young son knows this. They are struggling to know who they are and why they are valuable because everything is telling them they suck and are not wanted. And instead of the dem party trying to address these issues they just double down that men are the problem. Men are made fun of on TV shows and in society in general in a way that women never are. Obama scolded black men that won't vote for Kamala. The dem party is committed to women's and minority rights and success, they have no plan for men, especially young men.

There is a big problem with men and their mental and social health. The solution isn't, however, doubling down on the traditional patriarchal inequality romanticized by conservatives or kind of toxic machismo peddled by folks like Trump and social media influencers. It is making the problem worse.

I work with teenage boys in an educational setting. They struggle with healthy expressions of emotion, relationships, and self-image, believing if they are not six feet tall, have abs, have money, and have girlfriends that are not absolutely loyal to them they are not real men. They often cite people like Andrew Tate.

Maybe Democrats should put out better messaging for men around this. If men are believing this toxic masculinity crap is going to make them better people, a message that real men are able to be empathetic, show self-control, express emotions besides anger, and accept differences while expressing their own individuality really should be promoted better.

 

[PureX]

So a convicted felon that was already fired as an inept president is the solution? I don't buy it.

She built a campaign in a few weeks. She only campaigned for about 3 months and closed the poll numbers to Trump dramatically. She raised a record amount of money, over a billion. She had the biggest political events in history. She had a huge number of celebrities and even republicans endorsing her. The enthusiasm was massive.

Yet 13 million voters didn't show up. I'm at a loss.

Those who were behind her were adamant. They donated to her campaign and went to the rallies. But she didn’t get the rest. And I think that’s because the democrats are far too status quo. Too centrist. They are not willing to act against their big corporate donors and lobbyists, and everyone knows it. which means they will never really fix anything that really needs to be fixed. Because it’s their big corporate donors that are the root of the economic problems facing most Americans. So they had two completely useless choices, and just stayed home.

Of course they said Biden was fine, just as republicans dismiss Trump's obvious mental failings. I blame Biden for running again. He should have known better than to push his luck at his age. The same for Trump, but he was trying to stay out of prison. His back was against the wall, so he had nothing more to lose.

Our only hope now is that Trump will not last long, health wise. But he will have to falter catastrophically, because the republicans will not force him out. He is their big political golden ticket.

 

[Augustus]

What other explanation is there for Biden managing to get 81 million votes, but Harris not getting past 70-ish while running against the same guy? Any significant platform change (such as doing the opposite of what Biden proposed)? Any massive failure? Nope and Nope.

Errr, 4 years of rampant inflation, international turmoil and perceived problems with law and order and immigration.

Recent times have not been good for incumbents anywhere in the west.

Why would you expect America to be different?

 

[Kathryn]

They vote for ideals once their fear for their survival is resolved.

No, I think most people vote for their own self interests. Period. Survival isn't all its cracked up to be.

 

[Koldo]

Errr, 4 years of rampant inflation,

Is this an answer to "Tell me you have never seen rampant inflation without telling me you have never seen rampant inflation."?

Do Argentina and Venezuela exist or are they a made up conspiration?

international turmoil

Mostly not directly caused by the USA, unlike the additional tension caused by Trump on regards to North Korea, Iran and China. Not to mention Cuba, Turkey and Venezuela.

and perceived problems with law and order

What perceived problems specifically?

and immigration.

Which is only an issue due to xenophobia.

Recent times have not been good for incumbents anywhere in the west.

Why would you expect America to be different?

Trump being on the race, and Biden's massive numbers on 2020.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I've been thinking about this today and trying to understand why Trump voters were more motivated to vote than democrats. Still, Trump had 2 million fewer votes this week than he did four years ago, so while there was still more motivation many did not get out.

They are still counting votes, he is now only down 760k from last election. I also looked and Harris got significantly less votes in California, Illinois and New York than Biden did. States where it did not matter if they had a large turnout, Harris was going to win those states easily. Not sure what that means but it is interesting.

Harris is another story. She got 13 million fewer votes than Biden did four years ago.

Now in 2020 we were dealing with the pandemic, and that was a massive emergency, and the people got out an voted. In 2024 the economy is booming, we have social and economic stability, we aren't involved in any wars, and life is pretty good. I think voters got lazy. We had no national emergency or crisis to get voters motivated. Of course the difference for MAGA is that if Trump loses he goes to prison. I believe that this was considered an emergency for MAGAs and they were motivated to keep him out of prison. Trump had a disasterous campaign, with even many of his staff admitting to everyone being exhausted and tired of Trump's behavior. Much of the money they raised had to go to pay for lawyers. Even Trump seemed resigned to lose, he was so low energy. If Harris got the same numbers as Biden did in 2020 she wins big.

Democrats? I think they expected to win and Harris would coast to the finish. What explains their apathy? I have no idea. Harris had a fantastic campaign that was built in just days and maintained for 3 months. They raised a billion dollars. The fervor and money was there, but the Biden voters didn't show up. What happened?

I think that's going to be the question, where are the Biden voters? Why wasn't Trump being elected again enough of a threat to your future just as it was in 2020?

We did not vote for Trump to keep him out of jail. The dem party really needs to ponder what happened and analysis like we are racist and such is not going to help them figure it out.

 

[Augustus]

Is this an answer to "Tell me you have never seen rampant inflation without telling me you have never seen rampant inflation."?

Do Argentina and Venezuela exist or are they a made up conspiration

Do you honestly think people judge inflation based on how it compares to Weimar Germany rather than how it compares to their status a few years ago?

What a ridiculous argument.

Mostly not directly caused by the USA

So?

The incumbent gets the good or bad luck of whatever happens.

Always has always will.

Which is only an issue due to xenophobia.

Naive

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

There is a big problem with men and their mental and social health. The solution isn't, however, doubling down on the traditional patriarchal inequality romanticized by conservatives or kind of toxic machismo peddled by folks like Trump and social media influencers. It is making the problem worse.

I never said it was.

I work with teenage boys in an educational setting. They struggle with healthy expressions of emotion, relationships, and self-image, believing if they are not six feet tall, have abs, have money, and have girlfriends that are not absolutely loyal to them they are not real men. They often cite people like Andrew Tate.

I agree, It does not help that society rarely talks about men as if they are needed and wanted. I have a 13 yo son that we are working through these issues.

Maybe Democrats should put out better messaging for men around this. If men are believing this toxic masculinity crap is going to make them better people, a message that real men are able to be empathetic, show self-control, express emotions besides anger, and accept differences while expressing their own individuality really should be promoted better.

The toxic masculinity term is a problem in itself. Many things that are labeled toxic are just common masculine traits. I think the left uses the term to describe any trait that isn't associated with a woman.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't think it is a matter of being sexist or racist. I think Democratic party voters simply feel better represented by a white male than women.

That is adorable ...

... right up there with: "I'm not bigoted. I just feel better having a white Christian nationalist move in next door."​

 

[Koldo]

Do you honestly think people judge inflation based on how it compares to Weimar Germany rather than how it compares to their status a few years ago?

What a ridiculous argument.

How about comparing to Germany nowadays? Or France? Or UK? A lot of countries had to deal with higher than usual inflation rates in the past few years, but calling USA's inflation rampant only shows ignorance on the subject.

So?
The incumbent gets the good or bad luck of whatever happens.

Always has always will.

So Trump is not a better alternative when it comes down to international turmoil. He caused more of it than Biden.

Naive

Not at all.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Well there is no democrat DIR, and the mods have ruled that OPs can rule out who they don't want in the religious debates section, so it strikes me as an inconsistent approach to have it one way when theocrats throw a fit in religious debates and then not allow Democrats and their supporters a moment of internal reflection in the political debates section in my view.

To clarify the rules on thread titles that include only specific groups:

• In Religious Debates, that is not enforceable, because no rule prevents members from posting in a thread in that forum regardless of their beliefs even if a thread title specifies "[insert group here] only."

• In Religions Q&A, thread titles may specify groups who will be allowed to answer questions and make non-argumentative posts in the thread. This is because DIRs don't allow questions from outsiders, so Religions Q&A allows members to ask members of specific religious or irreligious groups questions.

• In Same-Faith Debates, people may specify in the thread title which groups can participate, such as "Theists Only," "Atheists Only," "Dharmic Only," etc., provided that the OP also belongs to the specified group (so that the OP can also participate).

 

[F1fan]

They are still counting votes, he is now only down 760k from last election. I also looked and Harris got significantly less votes in California, Illinois and New York than Biden did. States where it did not matter if they had a large turnout, Harris was going to win those states easily. Not sure what that means but it is interesting.

It is.

We did not vote for Trump to keep him out of jail. The dem party really needs to ponder what happened and analysis like we are racist and such is not going to help them figure it out.

There is still no rational basis to have voted for Trump. Those were emotional votes, men are angry and no one knows why. The question is why there weren't more rational voters coming out to vote for Harris. I still think things are good and they got lazy. I suspect there will be voter's regret at some point, especially when Trump's economic idea are put into place. The bond markets are already expecting inflation to grow when Trump is inaugurated.

If he cuts corporate tax rates and maintains his 2017 tax cuts (that most help the wealthy) the deficit is going to be bigger. And even though tariffs will create revenue it will come out of the pockets of consumers, and they have a limited amount to spend, so sales will be down. And that will trickle down to the whole economy.

Unless Trump has a personality change this won't be a sucessful administration.

 

[BrightShadow]

Personally because 3 democratic governers warned Biden that the southern border was an issue I believe Harris could have had a bit more political savvy and urged Biden to clamp down on the southern border sooner. I believe that even if the US needs migration sometimes in politics you have to not be too much of a moral crusader and have more of a willingness to listen to the public's concerns even if they are unfounded.

Considering the loathworthy opponent Harris had I personally feel this shouldn't have been such a close race in my view.

Thoughts?

I am not a republican... per se.
In reality - Trump is also somewhere in the middle! That is why he got the majority vote!
So, if Trump wants - he can respond here as well! But I don't think you will be that lucky!

Democrats need to stop the indoctrination.

Stop the spreading of fake news on their liberal platforms especially on the medias they own!

Celebrities need to go back and concentrate on their singing, acting careers and liberal talk show hosts need to go back being just funny without taking a stand.

LGBTQIA2S+ members need to let the nature take its course rather than trying to push it down the throats of people who are not ready to adopt the change.

Men need to play against men and vice versa! Otherwise just take away women's sports altogether and just have one sport. They scream that they are for the women but by default they are against women! It is shame - they don't realize that!

Children need to be left alone at schools and let their parents decide what is good for them. No need to expose children to BJ's with graphic pictures from an early age!

Let the immigrants come in with merits and not because they can afford a road trip and not because they want free handouts and free health care, while needy Americans are ignored!

Fix the road and infrastructure here in the homeland before investing or wasting in other countries' problems.
etc.
etc.
etc.

 

[PureX]

No, I think most people vote for their own self interests. Period. Survival isn't all its cracked up to be.

Most people will look out for each other once they no longer have to fear for themselves.

 

[Koldo]

I am not a republican... per se.
In reality - Trump is also somewhere in the middle! That is why he got the majority vote!

I am genuinely curious how you have reached the conclusion that Trump is somewhere in the middle.

So, if Trump wants - he can respond here as well! But I don't think you will be that lucky!

Democrats need to stop the indoctrination.

Stop the spreading of fake news on their liberal platforms especially on the medias they own!

Celebrities need to go back and concentrate on their singing, acting careers and liberal talk show hosts need to go back being just funny without taking a stand.

LGBTQIA2S+ members need to let the nature take its course rather than trying to push it down the throats of people who are not ready to adopt the change.

Men need to play against men and vice versa! Otherwise just take away women's sports altogether and just have one sport. They scream that they are for the women but by default they are against women! It is shame - they don't realize that!

Children need to be left alone at schools and let their parents decide what is good for them. No need to expose children to BJ's with graphic pictures from an early age!

Let the immigrants come in with merits and not because they can afford a road trip and not because they want free handouts and free health care, while needy Americans are ignored!

Fix the road and infrastructure here in the homeland before investing or wasting in other countries' problems.
etc.
etc.
etc.

Now I am also curious why you consider yourself to be somewhere in the middle.

 

[BrightShadow]

I am genuinely curious how you have reached the conclusion that Trump is somewhere in the middle.



Now I am also curious why you consider yourself to be somewhere in the middle.

Trump will show you via action. Wait for it.
Action speaks louder than words!

Trump wasn't always a Republican!
Political positions of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well there is no democrat DIR, and the mods have ruled that OPs can rule out who they don't want in the religious debates section, so it strikes me as an inconsistent approach to have it one way when theocrats throw a fit in religious debates and then not allow Democrats and their supporters a moment of internal reflection in the political debates section in my view.

It would be the Liberal Only DIR, which you have to join to have access. Technically you aren't a Democrat yourself as you're not even an American, so you shouldn't be posting in your own thread!

You rule out who can post in a thread in religious debates by using the Same-Faith Debates section. That's not the case here.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

There is still no rational basis to have voted for Trump. Those were emotional votes, men are angry and no one knows why. The question is why there weren't more rational voters coming out to vote for Harris.

46% of the votes women cast were for Trump. Up from 43% in 2020. Trumps received more black votes, hispanic votes, women votes than he did on 2020. Blaming groups of people for Harris's loss is not the right course to go down. I have seen the media and politicians blame black men, hispanic men, white women, white men for Harris's loss and blaming it on misogyny and racism. This is what they did in 2016 and they never learned a thing. They should be asking these voters why they did not vote for Harris and believe what they say. It was not for irrational, misogynistic or racist reasons. If the left continues to just brush it off as racist etc. they will never be able to understand and serve the American people well. In this election Trump called politicians, celebrities and the media names, the left called Trump voters names.

 

[PureX]

Trump will show you via action. Wait for it.
Action speaks louder than words!

The first thing Trump will do is gut the Department of Justice and fill it with criminal sycophants that will do whatever he wants them to do. And not do whatever he wants them not to do. Thus rendering the judicial system useless and destroying the balance of powers that this government has been built on and based on from day one. We already know he will do this because he started to do it the last time he was president. But the last time around he was somewhat constrained by the rule of law and the integrity of some other agencies and institutions. But the Supreme Court has now rendered him beyond the reach of any laws, or any agencies meant to reign in political abuse of power, for as long as he is president. So he has no more legal constraints. He can and will do as he pleases. All cases against him and his loyal cronies will be dropped, summarily. Any criminals acting at Trump's behest will be immune from prosecution, and so will Trump.

Is this really the "America great again" that you were envisioning? Because it's what you are going to get. A banana republic in which the rich "Massah" decides what is just, and what isn't. And of course he will decide this always as it serves him.

And that's just the beginning.

He's also going to create an army of armed thugs to round up supposed "illegal aliens" to be abused (punished) and deported. And you can just imagine the kind of men that will sign up for THAT job! Every pedophile, rapist, and wanna-be murderer will come a-runnin' from every corner of the country to sign on for that. As their moment to finally "shine" will finally be at hand! And no pesky Department of Justice to reign them in! Rape, robbery, murder, and mayhem ... Whee-Haw! Good times in Trumplandia!