Democrats say the damnedest things.....

[YmirGF]

Also that the Republicans are refusing to consider the Surgeon General nominee, and the main reason appears to be that the nominee mentioned that so many fatalities in this country come from gun-related deaths, which is a fact that the NRA and its supporters simply don't want to acknowledge.

No doubt gun-related deaths are way, way higher than alcohol-related deaths or distracted driving deaths...

 

[Revoltingest]

....so many fatalities in this country come from gun-related deaths, which is a fact that the NRA and its supporters simply don't want to acknowledge.

That's utterly facile & ridiculous.
We don't deny the figures.
The primary dispute is over their interpretation.

 

[metis]

No doubt gun-related deaths are way, way higher than alcohol-related deaths or distracted driving deaths...

And you consider that some sort of defense? Well then, using that "logic", we certainly have not one thing to worry about when it comes to ebola or even any terrorist attacks here.

 

[YmirGF]

And you consider that some sort of defense? Well then, using that "logic", we certainly have not one thing to worry about when it comes to ebola or even any terrorist attacks here.

I'm not terribly concerned about either, Metis.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No doubt gun-related deaths are way, way higher than alcohol-related deaths or distracted driving deaths...

Cars killed about three times as many people as guns in 1012. We certainly do need driving privileges to gain national attention, along with a strong reminder driving is a privilege, not a right. And much like people who should not be allowed to drive, there are people who should not be allowed to have guns. And the way the second amendment is interpreted today by many in the Right was not how it was originally intended to be interpreted. Neither group deserves to have their privileges fought for, because both groups are a menace to society. However, it's mostly those on the Right who refuse to acknowledge any sort of reasonable gun control, or any gun control at all. But they will scream and cry their rights are being infringed on, even though they haven't.

 

[Revoltingest]

Cars killed about three times as many people as guns in 1012. We certainly do need driving privileges to gain national attention, along with a strong reminder driving is a privilege, not a right. And much like people who should not be allowed to drive, there are people who should not be allowed to have guns. And the way the second amendment is interpreted today by many in the Right was not how it was originally intended to be interpreted. Neither group deserves to have their privileges fought for, because both groups are a menace to society. However, it's mostly those on the Right who refuse to acknowledge any sort of reasonable gun control, or any gun control at all. But they will scream and cry their rights are being infringed on, even though they haven't.

I think you're presenting the right as more extreme than they actually are.
Of all the right wing types I know, none say there should be no gun control.
And one person's "reasonable" would differ from another's. As a constitutional
originalist, I'd differ with many "living document" types who lean towards
authoritarianism.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think you're presenting the right as more extreme than they actually are.
Of all the right wing types I know, none say there should be no gun control.
And one person's "reasonable" would differ from another's. As a constitutional
originalist, I'd differ with many "living document" types who lean towards
authoritarianism.

I was thinking more of the televised NRA people who hoot and holler that their guns are their freedom. As for reasonable, I was thinking things on no guns for people with violent backgrounds, who are mentally unstable, who are too irresponsible, everyone must be trained, and a national registry with a mandate to report lost and stolen guns. If you are a law abiding citizen, then your guns shouldn't be taken away. But they need to be a lot harder to acquire. I also think all guns confiscated by police should be destroyed.

 

[Revoltingest]

I was thinking more of the televised NRA people who hoot and holler that their guns are their freedom. As for reasonable, I was thinking things on no guns for people with violent backgrounds, who are mentally unstable, who are too irresponsible, everyone must be trained, and a national registry with a mandate to report lost and stolen guns. If you are a law abiding citizen, then your guns shouldn't be taken away.

You'd find that you have a lot in common with many NRA types.
I favor more training for concealed carry licenses.
I also favor storage requirements.
The NRA has done much in these areas to address these concerns.
But this never makes the news. Members know.

But they need to be a lot harder to acquire. I also think all guns confiscated by police should be destroyed.

"Harder" is a broad term, but I can live with some flavors of it.

 

[metis]

I was thinking more of the televised NRA people who hoot and holler that their guns are their freedom. As for reasonable, I was thinking things on no guns for people with violent backgrounds, who are mentally unstable, who are too irresponsible, everyone must be trained, and a national registry with a mandate to report lost and stolen guns. If you are a law abiding citizen, then your guns shouldn't be taken away. But they need to be a lot harder to acquire. I also think all guns confiscated by police should be destroyed.

Exactly, and the NRA has a stranglehold on politicians in both parties to the point whereas because they fear that the NRA will come after them in the next election, thus so many of the politicians are willing to take stances that most Americans actually oppose, according to polls.

My father used to belong and donate to the NRA, but when he later saw just how wacky this group had become, he tore up his NRA card and mailed it to them and told them where they could put it (my father was an old army vet, so his language could be "colorful" at times).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

[/color]You'd find that you have a lot in common with many NRA types.
I favor more training for concealed carry licenses.
I also favor storage requirements.
The NRA has done much in these areas to address these concerns.
But this never makes the news. Members know.

My complaints with the NRA is its leaders. I actually don't know anyone like them either, but yet somehow they prevent any meaningful discussions of gun control from happening. As long as they have someone who believes the only thing who can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun in charge, I don't see any reason anyone should take them seriously. Especially since they also let Ted Nugent on board. I'm surprised they haven't distanced themselves from him over the things he has said. I sure wouldn't want represented by someone like him.

 

[Revoltingest]

My complaints with the NRA is its leaders. I actually don't know anyone like them either, but yet somehow they prevent any meaningful discussions of gun control from happening. As long as they have someone who believes the only thing who can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun in charge, I don't see any reason anyone should take them seriously. Especially since they also let Ted Nugent on board. I'm surprised they haven't distanced themselves from him over the things he has said. I sure wouldn't want represented by someone like him.

In addition to serving education, sporting & historical preservation needs, the NRA
also plays a political role. Success in realpolitik means delivering a message which
can offend gentle folk. Their way doesn't make me comfortable, but I understand
the purpose. Thoughtful discourse is best left to forums like this one, since it won't
be found often in the pro & anti gun organizations' campaigning. So I support the
NRA because of the results, even if they're imperfect.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

My complaints with the NRA is its leaders. I actually don't know anyone like them either, but yet somehow they prevent any meaningful discussions of gun control from happening. As long as they have someone who believes the only thing who can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun in charge, I don't see any reason anyone should take them seriously.

They use to not be like that. (John) Wayne LaPierre use to advocate/lobby for comprehensive background checks....not anymore.

 

[metis]

Also, why would the current leadership pick Ted Nugent, who is a blatant racist, whereas some of his concerts were dropped because of that? If I'm a leader in a sane organization that's trying to attract all different kinds of people, why in the world would I pick a known racist to be on the board?

BTW, if anyone is interested in some of Nugent's "wisdom", check this out: Here Are 13 Other Repugnant Comments Ted Nugent Should Apologize For | Blog | Media Matters for America

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Also, why would the current leadership pick Ted Nugent, who is a blatant racist, whereas some of his concerts were dropped because of that? If I'm a leader in a sane organization that's trying to attract all different kinds of people, why in the world would I pick a known racist to be on the board?

BTW, if anyone is interested in some of Nugent's "wisdom", check this out: Here Are 13 Other Repugnant Comments Ted Nugent Should Apologize For | Blog | Media Matters for America

I think expecting an apology from him is just as foolish as some of the things he has said. Any such apology would not be genuine, and it should be asked of the blogger, what happened to free speech? Afterall, it's the things he says that lets you know he's really not that good of a person.

 

[metis]

I think expecting an apology from him is just as foolish as some of the things he has said. Any such apology would not be genuine, and it should be asked of the blogger, what happened to free speech? Afterall, it's the things he says that lets you know he's really not that good of a person.

Yes, and when he sold his house here in Michigan whereas he could be with his hero, "W", in Texas, we grieved deeply here.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hillary...."Don't let anybody tell you that its corporations and businesses that create jobs."
Good grief.
This person might become leader of the country?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Hillary...."Don't let anybody tell you that its corporations and businesses that create jobs."
Good grief.
This person might become leader of the country?

But she's got a point....

[youtube]bBx2Y5HhplI[/youtube]
Nick Hanauer on inequality - YouTube


This here too...

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...americans-arent-the-real-job-creators/262833/

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2...eators-really-are/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

 

[Epigram]

Here is Harry Reed on the debt ceiling when Bush was President, he said raising the debt ceiling would hurt the economy.

Harry Reid in '06: Raising debt limit last thing we should do, will weaken country, hurt economy - YouTube

People that go after Democrats or Republicans forget George Carlin's Speech "They Don't Care About You". American's are owned property practically incapable of critical thinking. They usually are pointed and led to two groups and then they decide to pick a side. Conservative, Republican Theist vrs Liberal Democrat Atheist or any variation there of. I'm not saying I'm any different as I am also an american and have fallen for the same nonsense before... But I am trying to wake myself. Watch Carlin if you find the time. (I can't post a link but its on youtube)

 

[Dirty Penguin]

People that go after Democrats or Republicans forget George Carlin's Speech "They Don't Care About You". American's are owned property practically incapable of critical thinking. They usually are pointed and led to two groups and then they decide to pick a side. Conservative, Republican Theist vrs Liberal Democrat Atheist or any variation there of. I'm not saying I'm any different as I am also an american and have fallen for the same nonsense before... But I am trying to wake myself. Watch Carlin if you find the time. (I can't post a link but its on youtube)

So what is your advice? Should we vote for a third party...who...let's face it..are susceptible to the same shenanigans as the big two or should we just not vote at all and let the chips fall where they may?

 

[Epigram]

So what is your advice? Should we vote for a third party...who...let's face it..are susceptible to the same shenanigans as the big two or should we just not vote at all and let the chips fall where they may?

Mayday, Wolf Pac and move to amend. Get the money out of politics. Step One. I support all three organizations.