Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[Aupmanyav]

How do you know it is matter, and not a monster?

'Matter' is only way of saying it, actually there is no matter in the universe. All that exists is physical energy. That is perceived by our brain as matter. It is an illusion.

 

[nPeace]

I can only repeat myself.

We measure gravitational forces that are unaccounted for by the regular source of gravity: visible matter.
There is something, a source which currently remains unknown that is exerting those gravitational forces. We know it's there, because we can measure the gravity it exerts.

That unknown thing is labeled "dark matter".
It's just a name. Get over yourself.

Is there evidence for that thing, whatever it is? Yes. And that evidence is the manifestation of it that we can measure: the gravitational forces.

Derp-di-derp-derp.

Yes. There is evidence for that thing.... We measure their effects. It's there... whatever it is. We call it demons.

 

[nPeace]

'Matter' is only way of saying it, actually there is no matter in the universe. All that exists is physical energy. That is perceived by our brain as matter. It is an illusion.

An illusion!

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes. We can call it whatever we like. It's not evidence for whatever we like. Let's call it God. It is evidence for God. Is that fine?
Better yet. Since you call it matter, because you assume it is matter, and because you know of matter, and think... Oh well. It cannot be anything else... contrary to what other physicists say. why don't we just call the phenomenon we observe demons.
There, There is evidence for demons. BRUM Case Closed.
Cool?


No. Actually, all Christians - that is A LL experience demons.
Notice that I did not highlight the fact that only some scientists suggest Dark Matter. Not all. so what are you saying?
They - that is, all Christians - know from Jesus what to look for, so when they see the phenomenon, they recognize... Oh. It must be demons.
Any objections?

Today at 8:19 AM
Well, if it is a theory, there will also be desenters. That is why Christianity has so many sects (30,000 they say?). Nothing surprising.

 

[Aupmanyav]

An illusion!

Ah, of course, you are not a science person. Your views will be different.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes. There is evidence for that thing.... We measure their effects. It's there... whatever it is. We call it demons.

The difference is that the effects of the thing we call dark matter are independently, objectively measureable / verifiable.
The effects you claim from the thing you call demons... is not.

Measurement of gravitational forces are objective.
There is no measurement of anything "demonic". That amounts only to subjective anecdotal bs like "feelings" and "testimony".

If you disagree, then by all means: show us how to objectively and independently measure those things, whatever it is you are referring to.

 

[nPeace]

Today at 8:19 AM
Well, if it is a theory, there will also be desenters. That is why Christianity has so many sects (30,000 they say?). Nothing surprising.

Yes. I just said that.

 

[ElishaElijah]

In my examples patients are severely suffering from schizofrenia, which is manifested in chronic psychosis (hallucinations both auditive and visual).
These are disorders that tear people and families apart, that can cause permanent brain damage and drive people to suicide. It's also not uncommon for such people to turn seriously violent and even murderous.

If you can’t even consider these as spiritual and demonic, would rather give them harmful drug after drug instead of getting them saved and delivered I don’t have words for the cruelty and lack of compassion. You’d rather keep them chained up and sedated, that isn’t any way to live.
Sorry you’re so blind to the spiritual aspects of life that your only solution is really no solution at all.
Jesus spoke about people like that in the Bible, they wouldn’t enter into the Kingdom of Heaven themselves and kept people out as well, just like you’re promoting as well as many other people on here.IMO
So Come Out In Jesus Name movie was last night and so many people delivered from demons, go on Facebook and look up All the testimonies!

 

[nPeace]

The difference is that the effects of the thing we call dark matter are independently, objectively measureable / verifiable.
The effects you claim from the thing you call demons... is not.

The effects of something are observed.
There is no difference. The effects of demons are measured and observed.

Measurement of gravitational forces are objective.

Yes. Measurements of demonic activity are observed.

There is no measurement of anything "demonic".

Yup. There is.

That amounts only to subjective anecdotal bs like "feelings" and "testimony".

B who? That must be a bad word, used to tear down. No wonder it's abbreviated.
Yeah. typical of the "moral" people. That certainly helps an argument.

If you disagree, then by all means: show us how to objectively and independently measure those things, whatever it is you are referring to.

You have not provided any objective evidence for Dark Matter.
Gravitational forces are not Dark Matter. So measuring gravitational forces does not help you.

Actually.... Some scientist say this idea of Dark Matter, is subjective.
There is no dark matter... physicist says
a series of developments has revived a long-disfavored argument that dark matter doesn’t exist after all. says a theoretical physicist
Dark matter: should we be so sure it exists? Here’s how philosophy can help
If you disagree, you can post the competing. That would be interesting to see.

Look! They are even appealing to philosophy.
Yup. Subjective. So, you first. Provide the objective evidence.

By the way... you don't want me to show you any objective evidence. It won't be pleasant, and I'd have to take you places, I don't even want to go, and introduce you to people, I don't even want to meet.
So, I can only give you people's accounts of what they witnessed.
Jesus' is the best though. So, if you don't accept that...
That's objective evidence... in full measure.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I know exactly what I’m talking about…and I don’t charge money, do you? You’ll have to produce evidence of your success like you’re asking me for.
How long does it take and how much money for a drug addict to be set free by your psychology? Where’s the long term data?

These should get you started:

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for Treatment of PTSD

Cognitive behavioral therapy focuses on the relationship among thoughts, feelings and behaviors. For example, altering a person’s unhelpful thinking can lead to healthier behaviors and improved emotion regulation.

www.apa.org

The Efficacy of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Patients with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

The Efficacy of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Patients with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), Mohammad Saleh Shokouhi Qara Saadlou, Firoozeh Abolhasani Zadeh, Ayyub Sabbah,

www.clinicalschizophrenia.net

Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Substance Use Disorders

Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) for substance use disorders has demonstrated efficacy as both a monotherapy and as part of combination treatment strategies. This article provides a review of the evidence supporting the use of CBT, clinical elements ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Cognitive behavioral therapy for the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder: a review

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a psychiatric sequel to a stressful event or situation of an exceptionally threatening or catastrophic nature. Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) has been used in the management of PTSD for many years. This paper ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Cognitive behavioral therapy in anxiety disorders: current state of the evidence

A plethora of studies have examined the efficacy and effectiveness of cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) for adult anxiety disorders. In recent years, several meta-analyses have been conducted to quantitatively review the evidence of CBT for anxiety disorders, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I don't make lofty claims that I will "set people free." Instead, I help them work through well-developed out-patient programs that equips them with the tools they need to get them on the right track to better mental health and keep them on that track.

I went through the program myself, for my formerly crippling PTSD and panic disorders. What did it cost me? $0.

Your turn.

 

[SkepticThinker]

For example, Dark Matter? There is no evidence for it?

Yeah there is:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1516944112#:~:text=The%20evidence%20for%20the%20existence,in%20the%20universe%2C%20gravitational%20lensing%2C

 

[SkepticThinker]

It would be enough if that’s what their standard was but seen as it’s not well then… give up the proof.

Uh, we're talking about your standard.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You were asked specifically for scientific data to support your claim above but talked about psychosis instead:-


I think it’s obvious you like blathering.

This post makes me think you're not actually a serious person. You just completely brushed him off instead of addressing his counter points. I'm not sure if you're aware of how shaky that makes your position look.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I do but you’re just talking to yourself now and can’t follow the thought.

He's talking to you. Or at least trying to engage in a conversation with you. He made a great point about your position. Instead of brushing it off, why not try addressing it?

 

[SkepticThinker]

How do you know God didn’t condition Einstein‘s mind, which is what I reasoned. It says this can happen in the Bible. Deep space is an optical illusion, you have no evidence to the contrary.

How do we know there is a God and that God did such a thing? What reason do we have to insert any God into the equation at all?

 

[SkepticThinker]

If you can’t even consider these as spiritual and demonic, would rather give them harmful drug after drug instead of getting them saved and delivered I don’t have words for the cruelty and lack of compassion. You’d rather keep them chained up and sedated, that isn’t any way to live.
Sorry you’re so blind to the spiritual aspects of life that your only solution is really no solution at all.
Jesus spoke about people like that in the Bible, they wouldn’t enter into the Kingdom of Heaven themselves and kept people out as well, just like you’re promoting as well as many other people on here.IMO
So Come Out In Jesus Name movie was last night and so many people delivered from demons, go on Facebook and look up All the testimonies!

That poster just demonstrated to you that anti-psychotic medication actually helps people get their lives back and your response is that is cruel and uncompassionate because he didn't consider throwing demons in to the mix? I have to ask, are you really a serious person?

 

[ElishaElijah]

He's talking to you. Or at least trying to engage in a conversation with you. He made a great point about your position. Instead of brushing it off, why not try addressing it?

I was talking to you asking for you to provide the same proof you’re asking of me of the people you said you help out by your methods.
How much money does it end up costing people?
How long does it take?
What’s the exact change that occurs, what are the long term results?

I shared the results that Jesus Christ gave me, permanent freedom, purpose, eternal life, changed heart and different desires. A clear conscience, guilt and shame are gone, the things that used to control me have become things that bring other people freedom now.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That poster just demonstrated to you that anti-psychotic medication actually helps people get their lives back and your response is that is cruel and uncompassionate because he didn't consider throwing demons in to the mix? I have to ask, are you really a serious person?

They don’t get their life back though, wouldn’t call a life of harmful drugs and drug dependence getting your life back.

 

[nPeace]

Yeah there is:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1516944112#:~:text=The%20evidence%20for%20the%20existence,in%20the%20universe%2C%20gravitational%20lensing%2C

No. There isn't.
In research published in November in the Astrophysical Journal, the scientists report tiny discrepancies in the orbital speeds of distant stars that they think reveals a faint gravitational effect – and one that could put an end to the prevailing ideas of dark matter.

The study suggests an incomplete scientific understanding of gravity is behind what appears to be the gravitational strength of galaxies and galaxy clusters, rather than vast clouds of dark matter.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The effects of something are observed.
There is no difference. The effects of demons are measured and observed.


Yes. Measurements of demonic activity are observed.


Yup. There is.


B who? That must be a bad word, used to tear down. No wonder it's abbreviated.
Yeah. typical of the "moral" people. That certainly helps an argument.


You have not provided any objective evidence for Dark Matter.
Gravitational forces are not Dark Matter. So measuring gravitational forces does not help you.

Actually.... Some scientist say this idea of Dark Matter, is subjective.
There is no dark matter... physicist says
a series of developments has revived a long-disfavored argument that dark matter doesn’t exist after all. says a theoretical physicist
Dark matter: should we be so sure it exists? Here’s how philosophy can help
If you disagree, you can post the competing. That would be interesting to see.

Look! They are even appealing to philosophy.
Yup. Subjective. So, you first. Provide the objective evidence.

By the way... you don't want me to show you any objective evidence. It won't be pleasant, and I'd have to take you places, I don't even want to go, and introduce you to people, I don't even want to meet.
So, I can only give you people's accounts of what they witnessed.
Jesus' is the best though. So, if you don't accept that...
That's objective evidence... in full measure.

You talk a lot but you say nothing.

There's objective evidence for the gravitational forces that are unnaccounted for by baryonic matter.
Are you saying that there is objective evidence for whatever it is you say is evidence for demons?
If yes, what is it?

It seems you are saying that for me to have that evidence, I need to talk to people. So it seems you are saying that this evidence is mere testimony?
I asked for objective evidence.