Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[TagliatelliMonster]

I was talking to you asking for you to provide the same proof you’re asking of me of the people you said you help out by your methods.
How much money does it end up costing people?
How long does it take?
What’s the exact change that occurs, what are the long term results?

I shared the results that Jesus Christ gave me, permanent freedom, purpose, eternal life, changed heart and different desires. A clear conscience, guilt and shame are gone, the things that used to control me have become things that bring other people freedom now.

Your single biased anecdote does not make up for a good set to evaluate and conclude statistical / representative results.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

They don’t get their life back though, wouldn’t call a life of harmful drugs and drug dependence getting your life back.

The alternative is being driving to suicide, ending up with permanent brain damage, having families torn apart, becoming non-functional in every way (unable to keep a job, becoming a social pariah, becoming homeless, unable to even have a normal conversation, etc).

But whatever. keep sticking your head in the sand.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You’re a legend in your own mind bro, you know nothing about spiritual things and your only answer to supernatural things is confirmation bias.
When you enter into a conversation not even yours you don’t even have the ability to follow.
It would seem to me that you and the other member would follow their standards, a psychologist that claims to help addicts surely should be able to provide the same proof and evidence she is asking of me when I tell my personal experience with God and have 35 years of life to back up my comments, along with all the other testimonies in the Bible, as well as many people today who are being set free by Jesus Christ.
Surely the psychologist could provide her notes, how long it took and how much money it cost, the exact nature of the change.
I can describe mine and the cost was free to me, the time frame was immediate, the cost to Jesus was God becoming a man, living a perfect life, dying a horrendous death on the Cross, buried and rose from the dead.

The thing is, we keep asking you for evidence of these "spiritual things" and "supernatural things" and we're not getting any. The only thing you have offered up is some confirmation bias. Oh, and some attempts at insults, apparently.

"The pyschologist" (as you're apparently calling me) gave you her notes. You should read through them. All the way until the end.
You have yet to describe anything you've done to help anyone with anything. You just keep claiming it. You haven't shown that telling people that Jesus died on the Christ is an efficacious treatment for mental disorders. I can tell you at least one example I know of a person who was not only not helped by being told they're a dirty sinner who deserves hell fire and torment for all eternity, but was actually psychologically and emotionally damaged by it, and that belief was detrimental to their mental health. What do you make of those cases, or do you just ignore those ones?

Never mind the fact that you can't even demonstrate the veracity of your religious claims in the first place.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Lol, just give them drugs, drugs and more drugs. Can you see the freedom from one problem to another and don’t forget the side effects from the drugs. And you call it the “intellectual approach”.

Risperidone Side Effects: Common, Severe, Long Term

Learn about the side effects of risperidone, from common to rare, for consumers and healthcare professionals.

www.drugs.com

If it helps people, yes, give them the drugs that help them. You're against this .... why?

This is your answer oh man it’s a joke right? You’re serious, this is buffoonery at its best and this is the best you got. Yup you hit the nail on your head.

I'm pretty sure you're a joke, at this point. You don't seem interested in honest discussion of anything.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No. There isn't.
In research published in November in the Astrophysical Journal, the scientists report tiny discrepancies in the orbital speeds of distant stars that they think reveals a faint gravitational effect – and one that could put an end to the prevailing ideas of dark matter.

The study suggests an incomplete scientific understanding of gravity is behind what appears to be the gravitational strength of galaxies and galaxy clusters, rather than vast clouds of dark matter.

As I stated from the beginning: dark matter is a label given the unknown phenomenon of gravitational forces unnaccounted for by baryonic matter withing current theories accounting for gravity.

If it turns out that the current theories of gravity are incomplete / incorrect, then that error is the unknown that "dark matter" refers to.

You seem really unable to follow a simple trail of thought.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I take the spiritual approach to determine the cause of an illness and go from there to treat.
Everything isn’t a demon, sometimes it’s your diet, lifestyle. I certainly wouldn’t take medication with serious side effects like the one that was listed. Apparently you would just prescribe medication to everyone without finding out the cause.
Mental illness where there is real treatment that leaves people in bondage a lot of time is caused by a demon, from generational curses, witchcraft, masonic lodge or other secret societies and things like this. Demons are trespassers and will take any opportunity to inhabit a person to destroy and mock God and human beings who are made in God's image.

Go ahead and demonstrate any of this. Then I'll take it seriously.

In the meantime, I'm going to stick with what demonstrably works for people, and exorcisms ain't it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Why are you equating a headache or a stubbed toe or paper cut with someone that would be a drug addict, have schizophrenia, tormented in their dreams, someone with serious anger issues, suicidal thoughts and things like this?
I have seen many people like myself that have been delivered from all kinds of things that were caused by demons. Once people get saved through Jesus Christ, repent by renouncing all occult practices, generational curses, unforgiveness and resentment due to many reasons, and there are many ways people can be tormented by demons, During the renouncing and repentance demons manifest and show themselves, at that time they are expelled in the Name of Jesus and have to obey the authority of His Name and leave that person. Jesus owns the believer not the demon.

Why won't you answer the questions?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I was talking to you asking for you to provide the same proof you’re asking of me of the people you said you help out by your methods.
How much money does it end up costing people?
How long does it take?
What’s the exact change that occurs, what are the long term results?

I shared the results that Jesus Christ gave me, permanent freedom, purpose, eternal life, changed heart and different desires. A clear conscience, guilt and shame are gone, the things that used to control me have become things that bring other people freedom now.

Already provided.

You shared no "results" with me. You just made some claims. And now you seem to be equating "guilt and shame" with mental illness, or something??

 

[SkepticThinker]

They don’t get their life back though, wouldn’t call a life of harmful drugs and drug dependence getting your life back.

They actually do get their life back, as another poster thoroughly explained - twice.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No. There isn't.
In research published in November in the Astrophysical Journal, the scientists report tiny discrepancies in the orbital speeds of distant stars that they think reveals a faint gravitational effect – and one that could put an end to the prevailing ideas of dark matter.

The study suggests an incomplete scientific understanding of gravity is behind what appears to be the gravitational strength of galaxies and galaxy clusters, rather than vast clouds of dark matter.

Uh, yeah there is. The article I provided explains it.

NASA - NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter

Scientists Find Evidence of Oldest Dark Matter in Universe

Researchers discover evidence of the oldest dark matter ever observed in the universe.

learningenglish.voanews.com

Are you sure you know what evidence is?

 

[nPeace]

You talk a lot but you say nothing.

You missed the mirror. Perhaps you should look at it.

There's objective evidence for the gravitational forces that are unnaccounted for by baryonic matter.
Are you saying that there is objective evidence for whatever it is you say is evidence for demons?
If yes, what is it?

There is objective evidence for demons. It is seen activities which are documented all over the www. You can read them.

It seems you are saying that for me to have that evidence, I need to talk to people. So it seems you are saying that this evidence is mere testimony?
I asked for objective evidence.

I have to listen to scientists, and you yourself. You have not shown me anything. What... You want me to go to CERN? Come let's go to Haiti.
want to go to a house where demons inhabit? I'm not going with you.
I'm saying you would have to see for yourself, or otherwise get the details from those with the experiences...and yes. that is objective evidence.

I asked for objective evidence. Not claims from you and other scientists.

So many scientists are saying "Nope". Why should I listen to your testimony?
as an alternative to dark matter in interpreting galactic kinematics
a simple test suggests that dark matter does not in fact exist

I don't have the time to find all of them for you. Search the www, if you have not heard.
If it turns out there is no Dark Matter, what would you say? "Oh. But there was evidence for some gravitational Easter Bunny."

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is objective evidence for demons.

Share it here.

 

[nPeace]

Uh, yeah there is. The article I provided explains it.

NASA - NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter

Scientists Find Evidence of Oldest Dark Matter in Universe

Researchers discover evidence of the oldest dark matter ever observed in the universe.

learningenglish.voanews.com

Are you sure you know what evidence is?

Are you sure you know what you are saying?
Dark Matter is a made up idea for a phenomenon, no one knows what it is.
There is no evidence for Dark Natter. there is evidence something is happening out there. What? Gravitational activity.... So, yeah, I guess there is evidence for something. It's not Dark Matter.

Tell these scientists what you told me. maybe they don't have a clue of what evidence is.
a simple test suggests that dark matter does not in fact exist

 

[nPeace]

Share it here.

Share yours here.

 

[nPeace]

You seem really unable to follow a simple trail of thought.

It's deliberate. Why should I follow thoughts that lead nowhere.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The alternative is being driving to suicide, ending up with permanent brain damage, having families torn apart, becoming non-functional in every way (unable to keep a job, becoming a social pariah, becoming homeless, unable to even have a normal conversation, etc).

But whatever. keep sticking your head in the sand.

I think it’s you with your confirmation bias and sticking your head in the sand, refusing to look at spiritual issues as the problem.
See how narrow minded your thinking is? Your only solution is harmful drugs. You refuse to look at spiritual issues and deny they’re there, why? Because you cannot see them with your physical eyes?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Your single biased anecdote does not make up for a good set to evaluate and conclude statistical / representative results.

It’s my single testimony because I only have one life. I let the millions of other people tell their stories.
You’re just 1 Dimensional

 

[ElishaElijah]

Already provided.

You shared no "results" with me. You just made some claims. And now you seem to be equating "

These should get you started:

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for Treatment of PTSD

Cognitive behavioral therapy focuses on the relationship among thoughts, feelings and behaviors. For example, altering a person’s unhelpful thinking can lead to healthier behaviors and improved emotion regulation.

www.apa.org

The Efficacy of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Patients with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

The Efficacy of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Patients with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), Mohammad Saleh Shokouhi Qara Saadlou, Firoozeh Abolhasani Zadeh, Ayyub Sabbah,

www.clinicalschizophrenia.net

Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Substance Use Disorders

Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) for substance use disorders has demonstrated efficacy as both a monotherapy and as part of combination treatment strategies. This article provides a review of the evidence supporting the use of CBT, clinical elements ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Cognitive behavioral therapy for the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder: a review

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a psychiatric sequel to a stressful event or situation of an exceptionally threatening or catastrophic nature. Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) has been used in the management of PTSD for many years. This paper ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Cognitive behavioral therapy in anxiety disorders: current state of the evidence

A plethora of studies have examined the efficacy and effectiveness of cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) for adult anxiety disorders. In recent years, several meta-analyses have been conducted to quantitatively review the evidence of CBT for anxiety disorders, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I don't make lofty claims that I will "set people free." Instead, I help them work through well-developed out-patient programs that equips them with the tools they need to get them on the right track to better mental health and keep them on that track.

I went through the program myself, for my formerly crippling PTSD and panic disorders. What did it cost me? $0.

Your turn.

I’m glad you don’t have PTSD or panic disorders any more. To tell you these papers don’t tell much
though.
I’m sticking with Jesus Christ because He delivered me from all fear and anxiety. I had hatred towards my Dad and didn’t know where it was coming from and when I was reading Proverbs the Holy Spirit showed me why and in a minute the hatred was gone. This was the verse:

“Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you; Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭9‬:‭8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

God showed me I was a scoffer and really hated my Dad because he corrected me, I made it all about these little things he did to justify my hatred.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It’s my single testimony because I only have one life. I let the millions of other people tell their stories.

In other words, it's an anecdote. And therefore, not statistically significant.

You’re just 1 Dimensional

You don't seem to be capable or willing to addressing counter points to your claims with anything other than attempted insults.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I’m glad you don’t have PTSD or panic disorders any more.

I still have them, I just have much better tools at my disposal now, to help me deal with them and function in my life again. And as a back up, just in case there is a time when I can't deal with it, I have medication I can take that will help alleviate the symptoms and get me back on track.

To tell you these papers don’t tell much
though.

You didn't even read them.
Get back to me when you're actually interested in honest discussion.

I’m sticking with Jesus Christ because He delivered me from all fear and anxiety. I had hatred towards my Dad and didn’t know where it was coming from and when I was reading Proverbs the Holy Spirit showed me why and in a minute the hatred was gone.

If that's what helps you, then all the power to you. Whatever gets you through the night ...