Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[SkepticThinker]

I read one of them and they don’t say much, what did say a lot was Jill’s story and I can definitely see how that helped her.
I also see the problems when people are actually guilty of things they’ve done and their guilty conscience.
When you convince people to deny this instead of leading them to their Creator and finding forgiveness and healing then that’s where you’re way off. I say that because we can argue God all day long right now and get nowhere. But when the Judgement comes and you’ve counseled people who are standing before God that He doesn’t exist then what? I’m sorry for your loss?

They demonstrate they efficacy of the therapies under discussion.

Mental disorders don't have anything to do with "guilty consciences."

Nobody has ever stood before any gods, as far as I can tell.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Reiterating what you believe is the case is not an argument for that belief. I think I understand what you've said that belief is. I think I've argued against that belief being accurate. You've not addressed my argument nor presented a counter to that argument beyond the gumball analogy, which I've addressed. Nor have you answered any of my questions.
"I don't believe" is a considered response based in belief. Lack of belief is not. It is a state of being. I don't know how to make it clearer except through interactive discussion of the arguments for and against. But if your not interactive with those arguments no further progress can be made.

Not believing, isn't a belief.

Do you consider your lack of belief in magical pixies a belief, or a lack of belief?

I've already explained why I ceased further discussion with you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Unbelieving doctors don’t have the ability or authority to cast out demons, if they are the ones causing the mental illness.
The person would have to go to a Deliverance Service and get prayed for, if a demon manifests itself, the person receives Jesus Christ then if they have a demon it can be expelled. This is all in the Bible and happening now all over the world.

Somebody has yet to demonstrate that demons exist, and/or are able to cause mental illness.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You can be a pseudoscientist if you like. You have free will to guess about things like the existence of God.

That's what you're doing. Notice how you didn't answer my question.
We don't do science by positing unexplained magic as a cause of anything.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Statistics are a demonstration of real life results. Anecdotes are not.

If the drugs are helping people to lead fully functional lives that they weren't leading before, then those drugs are beneficial, not harmful. Why is this concept difficult for you?

It’s not hard at all, drugs can be used to help people but it’s temporary, you assume it’s all physical and it’s not. Are you saying there is no spiritual realm or demons that cause mental and physical problems?
Drugs are only a bandaid, the person taking them end up building up a tolerance to them and long term physical problems and dependence, they need more and more never getting freedom.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Somebody has yet to demonstrate that demons exist, and/or are able to cause mental illness.

Well, that would be your issue because I don’t have that problem, neither do the witches and warlock’s or anyone involved in the occult on here.

 

[ElishaElijah]

They demonstrate they efficacy of the therapies under discussion.

Mental disorders don't have anything to do with "guilty consciences."

Nobody has ever stood before any gods, as far as I can tell.

In the example with Jill, her guilty conscience was helped by talking through the situation that caused her problems.
The talking through things is beneficial because it reveals the truth of the matter, that she had no reason to feel guilt, my question is where did the guilt come from, why was she believing a lie that she was responsible, where did the lie come from?

 

[ElishaElijah]

https://www.facebook.com/100044490187117/posts/754106886082311

What an awesome night! Deliverance from what happened all over the US? Demons

 

[SkepticThinker]

It’s not hard at all, drugs can be used to help people but it’s temporary, you assume it’s all physical and it’s not. Are you saying there is no spiritual realm or demons that cause mental and physical problems?

Your assertions disagree with the facts.

Drugs are only a bandaid, the person taking them end up building up a tolerance to them and long term physical problems and dependence, they need more and more never getting freedom.

For many people, those drugs are their freedom. Their freedom to lead a functional life. Drugs are demonstrably effective for people suffering from various mental disorders. They can be even more efficacious when paired with some form of talk therapy. I can, and have demonstrated this.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well, that would be your issue because I don’t have that problem, neither do the witches and warlock’s or anyone involved in the occult on here.

It is your problem. You're the one making the claim(s).

 

[SkepticThinker]

In the example with Jill, her guilty conscience was helped by talking through the situation that caused her problems.
The talking through things is beneficial because it reveals the truth of the matter, that she had no reason to feel guilt, my question is where did the guilt come from, why was she believing a lie that she was responsible, where did the lie come from?

Mental disorders aren't about having a guilty conscience.

Cognitive behavioral therapy involves more than "talking through things." What it involves is, identifying and changing automatic negative thought and behavior patterns that cause us physical distress and re-wiring our brains to replace those maladaptive patterns with ones that don't cause us distress. It has nothing to do with guilty consciences or anything like that. I don't have PTSD because I have a guilty conscience about something. I have PTSD because I lived through a traumatic experience. That's why it's called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder."
Similarly, people aren't schizophrenic because they feel guilty about something.

 

[Left Coast]

As an atheist I heard nuisance voices for 3 decades. After an awakening I later thought I had exorcised/delivered myself when turning Christian and saying the Lord’s Prayer for a year. I felt something invisible leave me via my forehead and felt good after that. But now I believe God had been talking to me all that time before, it was just that the words of wisdom/knowledge were too cryptic to work out they were from Him. Maybe a demon did leave me making things easier.

Have you ever spoken to a mental health professional about hearing these voices?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Mental disorders aren't about having a guilty conscience.

Cognitive behavioral therapy involves more than "talking through things." What it involves is, identifying and changing automatic negative thought and behavior patterns that cause us physical distress and re-wiring our brains to replace those maladaptive patterns with ones that don't cause us distress. It has nothing to do with guilty consciences or anything like that. I don't have PTSD because I have a guilty conscience about something. I have PTSD because I lived through a traumatic experience. That's why it's called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder."
Similarly, people aren't schizophrenic because they feel guilty about something.

Didn’t say mental disorders were about a guilty conscience, I did mention guilty conscience, but didn’t mean that was the cause of mental disorders but was talking about Jill’s story and wasn’t that due to guilt in her situation?

 

[Left Coast]

I’m glad the drugs helped you, I’m not saying the drugs don’t help but why would you even think about not taking them when they were helping you?
Wouldn’t you like to explore having a life without the drug dependence? I had to have the drugs and alcohol to cope with life, I was miserable without them but they were also killing me. God changed that for me 35 years ago.
I have no problem with working with doctors, they do their part and I do mine. I don’t cross over into that field, I do have a problem when doctors or others deny the spiritual aspect of a person because of their own unbelief or prejudice against God and counsel against this.

Please don't advise people to come off their anti-psychotic medications. They are not addictive or detrimental to people like alcohol and illicit drugs are. They help people lead healthy, productive, well-adjusted lives free of the suffering caused by their disease. The two are not equivalent. People sometimes think about quitting them because they begin to feel better and (mistakenly) believe they don't need them anymore, leading them to stop them against medical advice and regress back to psychosis.

Please leave medicine to the medical professionals.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It is your problem. You're the one making the claim(s).

On here maybe but not around the world, there are a few people on here and far from a consensus on the matter.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Please don't advise people to come off their anti-psychotic medications. They are not addictive or detrimental to people like alcohol and illicit drugs are. They help people lead healthy, productive, well-adjusted lives free of the suffering cause by their disease. The two are not equivalent. Please leave medicine to the medical professionals.

Did I advise people to come off their medication? No

 

[Left Coast]

Did I advise people to come off their medication? No

You strongly implied it and compared it to drug addiction. And I'm telling you why that's a terrible idea.

 

[Eddi]

drug dependence?

Relying on medication to keep yourself in your right mind is not comparable to being addicted to illicit drugs or alcohol

Do drugs or alcohol actually help people? No, they are don't, they make things worse

Do anti-psychotics help people? - absolutely they do

 

[ElishaElijah]

You strongly implied it and compared it to drug addiction. And I'm telling you why that's a terrible idea.

No I didn’t, I think if you re-read my comment you might see different. By the way my family and all those around me thought I was insane, lived like it too, give me a joint and I was all mellowed out, drink and drug till I die was where I was headed, why? Cause I couldn’t deal with life.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Relying on medication to keep yourself in your right mind is not comparable to being addicted to illicit drugs or alcohol

Do drugs or alcohol actually help people? No, they are don't, they make things worse

Do anti-psychotics help people? - absolutely they do

I wasn’t comparing your situation but only sharing mine and identifying the similarity with needing drugs.
I also asked why you stopped taking them in 2016 and wouldn’t you rather be off of the drugs and be free from them?
I didn’t say stop taking them but the contrary, sometimes drugs are needed, if you’re good with that then fine but for me I would rather be free like I am now and Jesus Christ did that.
What would you say if you ended up going to a Deliverance Conference and God set you free In the Name of Jesus? You believe you’re set free and you see your doctor and with his supervision you’re able to stop the drugs and are a changed man all by the power of God?