Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[DNB]

It is so typical of religionists to be happy to
make things up and state them as fact.

We are amused by the inconsistencies and
contradictions that result.

Elsewhere you state as fact that I am a scientist,
one whose beliefs are based on observation.

Here you have it that I'd ignore observation.

The "guarantee" you offer, that I am intellectual.y
dishonest is what we call " psychological projection".
Among other base and Ignoble things that could be mentioned.

Elsewhere you cite observation to back up your conclusion
that theres a "spiritual endowment".
You think you are a " scientist"?




Just in case you do, we remind you that scientists,
or other thnkers with integrity, dont put conclusion first then
trot out evidence and force fit it.

I was referring to Mikkel_the_dane, as far as the futility statements are concerned (going in circles).
Audie, take the flippin' blinders off, and quit offering shallow perspectives of what is in fact, extremely profound and elucidating behaviour: man's devotion, reverence and doxologies towards the transcendent realm.
You appear to have no comprehension of the power struggle that exists between good and evil, and you regard it as a neurological or chemically induced disposition. Try applying that to a racist, rapist, porn star, drug dealer, gang banger, assassin, war monger, or one who commits genocide - you'll only come up with utterly impotent solutions to cure their wickedness.

What separates our views Audie, is perception and depth of thought. Superficial and shallow people lack insight - one will never be able to impress upon them the virtue of humility and altruism. Bullies will never appreciate the fact that it is stronger and tougher to protect and build someone up, than to knock them down.

That's wisdom Audie, that's what spiritualists extrapolate from their perception of life.
Their observations and perceptions are profound and potent- they have more value and efficacy than any secularistic view.

 

[YoursTrue]

It isn't a question of degree. The thread is about the evidence that others use to make the claim of demon. That is what this thread is about. Lots of people are making claims of demons. The question is how do they do they know it is demons. There has been no unambiguous, objective evidence supplied that others can use and would draw the same conclusion.

If the spirits are unseen, how do you know they are there? How are others differentiating an ordinary natural cause from a spirit or a demon?

That is what the thread asks. I await an answer and from the looks of things, I, and others, will be waiting a long time.

I've heard a lot about how this is discernment, but again, there is no evidence that anyone on here has any special abilities that others don't have. It seems to me that this particular claim is offered as smoke and mirrors to shut others up.

I worry about Christians that play these games.

From what I read, unless I misinterpreted, @Sgt. Pepper firmly believes that demons or ghosts exist.

 

[Audie]

I was referring to Mikkel_the_dane, as far as the futility statements are concerned (going in circles).
Audie, take the flippin' blinders off, and quit offering shallow perspectives of what is in fact, extremely profound and elucidating behaviour: man's devotion, reverence and doxologies towards the transcendent realm.
You appear to have no comprehension of the power struggle that exists between good and evil, and you regard it as a neurological or chemically induced disposition. Try applying that to a racist, rapist, porn star, drug dealer, gang banger, assassin, war monger, or one who commits genocide - you'll only come up with utterly impotent solutions to cure their wickedness.

What separates our views Audie, is perception and depth of thought. Superficial and shallow people lack insight - one will never be able to impress upon them the virtue of humility and altruism. Bullies will never appreciate the fact that it is stronger and tougher to protect and build someone up, than to knock them down.

That's wisdom Audie, that's what spiritualists extrapolate from their perception of life.
Their observations and perceptions are profound and potent- they have more value and efficacy than any secularistic view.

So wise, yes, so very wise.
That explains why you believe there really was a Noah's ark.

 

[DNB]

And your big sister could beat me up?

I've heard " theologians" jabber. I'm so impressed.
"edification of holiness"
A demonstrable fact, you call it. : D As- If.

But of course the basic human psychology
you speak of is stuff worked out in every culture,
and has nothing to do with " suoernatural" or
any other superstition.

Any capable speaker can talk about it. There's no
" metaphysics" in it.

NONE of your boasting about your " theologians" being so
clever is convincing, or has anything to do with
what I'm said in my post.

Just further confirmation that your trying to
talk about this, what was it, " spiritual dimension
in human ontology" or somesuch meaningless
puffery, is vapor. You've nothing there.

No other creature on this planet has that ability: to philosophize about right and wrong.
This in not a question about intellect, all beings have that. We are talking about man's spiritual innateness.

 

[DNB]

So wise, yes, so very wise.
That explains why you believe there really was a Noah's ark.

Again, Audie, wisdom induces the significance of the flood - man's innate spiritualism - which includes wickedness. If I were God, I destroy the earth also, with me included. And, God has the power to do so.
Not as much of a stretch, as you may think.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I don't agree my conclusions are faulty and I don't have any reason to believe I have been misled by God.

I'm sorry that you think that, but you and your crew wanted to make me the center of attention. Perhaps you should have thought that through before deciding to go on the attack and constantly make passive aggressive references or harass me at every available opportunity. If the goal was to draw me in, the methodology to do so was so poor it pushed me right out.

I personally don't have a problem that people have personal beliefs or even with them relating them. I have my own. But when you bring claims to the open market and act as if they should be swallowed without question, I do have issues. I want evidence. I need a reason to agree with or accept the claims. I need more than the say so of some random person with an obvious agenda. I have issues with how personal interpretations are put to practice here.

I don't have any interest in discussing this further, but I am aware that Revelation 18: 2-24 has a specific interpretation among your organization and it isn't very flattering to the rest of us. My religion isn't false and it isn't under the control of Satan. I believe God wants me to think and use my knowledge and skills. I don't believe He wants me to take His gifts and use them poorly or build false narratives with them.

Please show where we have harassed you or we have attacked you.

By asking questions?

In our understanding, the Harlot of Revelation chapters 17 & 18 (both chapters) is referencing religious organizations, not individual people.

If any organization condones warfare, especially where a religious organization has members on both sides of the conflict and they’re killing each other (ref.Catholics killing Catholics & Protestants killing Protestants), do you think God approves of that? The God of Love? John 4:8; 1 John 3:10-15
Yes, people are being misled.
But it’s not their fault; it’s the religious organizations & their leaders, the ones who know better, that bear the responsibility, and who will, according to Revelation chapter 17 verse 16, be destroyed by governments of the Earth. (Beasts & horns are identified as governments in the book of Daniel. Ref.Daniel 8:20-22). Atheists might find this particular understanding, intriguing.

I don’t mean to cause you distress, never have; only to impel your reasoning ability, which I know is substantial. And certain questions are effective for doing that.

IMO.

Hope you have a good evening.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I'll be back. I just wish those that claim that demons exist would provide their own evidence if they think it is good enough and stop putting others on the spot to take that burden off themselves.

I understand your skepticism, and I don't mind it. I believe that a healthy dose of skepticism is beneficial and necessary when dealing with the paranormal. As someone who has years of experience with the paranormal, I will say that I've often invited skeptics to either participate in a paranormal investigation or I've told them personal information that either convinced them that the paranormal is real or made them more open to the possibility than they were before. But, as I've stated numerous times on the forum, I'm not here to convince skeptics that the paranormal is real or that my mediumship is real. To be completely honest, I don't care whether skeptics believe me or not. I share my experiences with the paranormal (as I already have in this thread; see here and here) and let the chips fall where they may. I never argue or debate my experiences with anyone, online or in person. Finally, despite my experiences with the paranormal, I can be skeptical at times when I'm investigating a location, as I explained to you in another thread (see here) quite some time ago.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

A theologian will talk circles…in regards to…the hypocrisy of not loving others as yourself…

I’d like to ask you a question concerning the above excerpt….
My intent is not to put you on the spot; in fact you don’t have to answer….


(You are speaking about Christendom’s theologians, right?)
What do you think about these theologians who discuss this hypocrisy of love, but yet are willing to support their respective governments when there is a conflict?

In World Wars I & II, really during most all of Christendom’s existence, have not Catholic theologians killed other Catholic theologians, simply due to political differences & geography? After the Reformation of the 1500’s, Protestants have done the same unfortunately. Letting the sheep slaughter & get slaughtered.

Another question: shouldn’t they instead have proven loyal to their Prince of Peace? It’s not for nothing that Jesus said his followers must be “not of” / “no part” of this world.

If they haven’t heeded the statement made at James 4:4, Jesus’ words at Matthew 7:21-23 might just be applicable.


No reply is necessary. Just to get you thinking about that aspect.

Best wishes, my cousin.

 

[YoursTrue]

I understand your skepticism, and I don't mind it. I believe that a healthy dose of skepticism is beneficial and necessary when dealing with the paranormal. As someone who has years of experience with the paranormal, I will say that I've often invited skeptics to either participate in a paranormal investigation or I've told them personal information that either convinced them that the paranormal is real or made them more open to the possibility than they were before. But, as I've stated numerous times on the forum, I'm not here to convince skeptics that the paranormal is real or that my mediumship is real. To be completely honest, I don't care whether skeptics believe me or not. I share my experiences with the paranormal (as I already have in this thread; see here and here) and let the chips fall where they may. I never argue or debate my experiences with anyone, online or in person. Finally, despite my experiences with the paranormal, I can be skeptical at times when I'm investigating a location, as I explained to you in another thread (see here) quite some time ago.

Either those who think there is no evidence for demons believe you, or they don't.

 

[Audie]

No other creature on this planet has that ability: to philosophize about right and wrong.
This in not a question about intellect, all beings have that. We are talking about man's spiritual innateness.

I thought you wuz talking about some
spiritual endowment or ontolpgical whuzzit.

Whatever is the case, again your post has nothing to do
with responding to mine.

 

[Audie]

Again, Audie, wisdom induces the significance of the flood - man's innate spiritualism - which includes wickedness. If I were God, I destroy the earth also, with me included. And, God has the power to do so.
Not as much of a stretch, as you may think.

You think it's wise to believe in a fictitious event?

There was no flood. If you ever compretended that, i expect
your world would fall apart.

Beliefs or " philosophy" relying on fiction are empty shells.
A travesty.

But you think its sooo wise. Pathetic.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Why do only humans have a moral conduct? Like I said, animals kill or harm often indiscriminately, and never has one lost any sleep over it. And, yet, their social structure does not dissolve into chaos.

Very astute assessment! Thought-provoking.

Animals, although guided by instinct and many have some social structure, it doesn’t “dissolve into chaos” due to a lack of morals.

They have none.

The only time chaos might ensue within an animal tribe, is due to the death or weakness of its leader.

I appreciate the point you made.

Good night, my cousin.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I disagree. Homeopathy saved my life after conventional medicine had almost killed me.

I believe that you believe that.

Meanwhile, homeopathy is confirmed bs.

The "theory" of homeopathy literally requires certain molecules (water specifically) to have magical properties that have never been demonstrated to be real.
Au contraire. It has been demonstrated to be false time and again.

When you buy homeopathic "medicine", all you are doing is wasting money on placebo's that literally don't do anything.


"Psychics" are no different.
Same with astrologists, tarrot card readers, etc.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In my opinion and experience, it's pointless to argue with a skeptic of the paranormal. As I've stated numerous times on this forum, I believe that "seeing is believing." This is because I've seen it happen time and time again with skeptics who were adamantly opposed to believing in the paranormal until they had an experience (or multiple experiences) with the paranormal that they couldn't explain or debunk

If that's what it takes to believe in psychics, then those beliefs are based on nothing more then arguments from ignorance.

, and it caused them to either begin to genuinely believe in the paranormal or admit that their experience could possibly have been paranormal. My husband, for example, was a cautious skeptic until he had his first paranormal experience in July 2021 and his second experience not quite a month ago in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He was a cautious skeptic for a long time after I told him about my mediumship, but then he had an experience of his own while he was with me during a paranormal investigation at the Crescent Hotel in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. He always believed me when I told him about my experiences, but he had never had an undeniable experience of his own until we were together at America's most haunted hotel. He heard multiple Class A EVPs while I was conducting burst EVP sessions throughout the hotel and on the hotel grounds. He saw the images that appeared live on my SLS camera, as well as thermal images and photographs of some spirits taken by other paranormal investigators who were also present at the hotel. We later went on one of the hotel's nightly ghost tours, and he was impressed with the EMF readings and Class A EVPs that were captured while we were on the tour. We also experienced some poltergeist activity in our room later that night. The covers on our bed were pulled off onto the floor, we heard knocking in the bathroom, the faucets in the sink and the shower turned on by themselves, and we heard a disembodied voice in our room. My husband described himself as a "cautious skeptic" prior to his personal experiences at the Crescent Hotel, and he told me that it would be dishonest for him to continue to be one after everything he has personally witnessed at the Crescent.

Another anecdote.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I have no reason to believe that G-d, angels and demons are not part of reality.

Can you rewrite that without the double negative?

I believe in the unseen .. a thought cannot be seen.

Thoughts not only can be seen (brainscans)... these days they can even be read by observing brain activity. Still in it's infancy obviously, but the first steps have been taken.

What you actually mean with "unseen" in context of "demons, gods and spirits" is not just that they are invisible (like magnetic fields) but rather that they are UNDETECTABLE.

Thoughts, magnetic fields, gravity,... all can't be "seen". But all can be detected in other ways!
All those "invisible" things that actually exist have SOME SORT of independently, objective detectable manifestation.

Undetectable things like gods, spirits, demons and extra-dimensional dragons do NOT have independently objective detectable manifestations.

As such... they are indistinguishable from things that don't exist.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yeah, why consider whether there are demons if a person doesn't believe what the Bible says anyway? Hmm?

And with that question, you have literally acknowledge that belief in demons has nothing to do with evidence and everything with a priori religious beliefs.

In other words: in order to "justify" a belief in demons, one has to follow a religion that requires belief in demons.
So having to believe it, is seen as the justification to believe it.


It doesn't get any more circular then that....

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Would you say there are eyewitness accounts of demons?

I'm sure all kinds of people claim to have witnessed all kinds of things.

Claims require evidence though.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Man is a spiritual being - an axiomatic fact. Thus, there exists a spiritual realm.

Claims piling on on more claims.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How can a person conjure up such wickedness simply due to a cross-wiring in his brain?

And again with the argument from ignorance.

Like I said, malfunctions in the human psyche result in aberrant, radical and unpredictable behaviour - not calculated mischief and depravity - deriving pleasure from evil.

This is just not true.
Yes, there are disorders that cause such. There are also disorders that don't.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You're wrong - you did not address such acts of altruism where the compassionate or charitable person does so with no vested interest of his own.

I did. This is behavior that is beneficial for the group and / or sub-group.
The group ultimately is more important then the individual.
Because together social species are strong and alone, they die.

Why do only humans have a moral conduct?

All social species have social structures / rules of conduct.
This is not unique to humans at all.

Like I said, animals kill or harm often indiscriminately, and never has one lost any sleep over it.

So do humans when it comes to members of other species / groups. Go take a look what happens to a wolf if he starts killing or harming members of his own pack indiscriminately...

And, yet, their social structure does not dissolve into chaos.

But what you said simply isn't true.
There is no social species on earth where members of the group get away with "killing or harming" other members of said group indiscriminately.
Even if it happens high up the hierarchy, sooner or later, the "lower end" of the group will engage in some sort of revolt / mutiny.

In a social setting, there is only so much that one will be able to get away with within that social structure concerning asocial behavior.
This goes for all social species.

Again, you're taking man's innate spiritual endowment for granted, and trying to ascribe a mere intellectual or practical derivation for it.

I don't subscribe to your a priori, unsubstantiated, undemonstrable, religious beliefs concerning the human condition.