Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[vulcanlogician]

I was just looking at a case, where a youngster stabbed a teenage girl one hundred and fourteen times. That's 1 1 4.
He was not diagnosed as a mental case. I guess it's his vestigial animal instinct that his mom could not possibly have seen.
Oh. They found drawings, some describe as "Satanic", because of for example, the Pentagram (seen on the guy's head).

This is not evidence of demons, though. There could be many explanations for this person's behavior. Mobsters have done far worse to people, and their motivations were different: "to send a message."

I once walked across a seven acre field with some friends. At several points during our trek we had impromptu wrestling matches, whereby one of us tackled the other spontaneously and began wrestling. (We were teenagers. And idiots.)

Anyway, when I got back to my car, I realized that my car keys were not in my pocket. I'd obviously lost them during one of the wrestling sessions. I was flipped out. Given how big the field was, there was no way we were ever going to find the keys. But we were out in the middle of nowhere (this was before cell phones) and it was close to midnight. The only option we had was to find the keys.

A couple stragglers in our group hadn't made it back to the car yet. We started yelling at them that we needed to find the keys. Long story short, by some stroke of luck, one of them kicked the keys hard enough to where one of us heard the keys jingle. It was lottery odds of that happening. The field was huge and the grass was almost knee-high.

Now, if someone were convinced of "leprechaun magic" (and perhaps a little obsessed with the idea) they might conclude that leprechauns were behind our unlikely discovery of the keys. Let's imagine a person who believed that our finding of the keys couldn't have been anything other than leprechaun magic.

Imagine trying to convince such a person otherwise. To them, there could be no other possible answer... because they convinced themselves beforehand that things like this don't happen without aid from leprechauns.

I know my example is a little off beat... but I'd really like you to imagine trying to convince such a person that it wasn't leprechauns. I feel like it would be a very similar conversation to to trying to convince you that this murder might have other explanations besides demons.

People are F-ed up. Even sane people. I think what we have here is a F-ed up, evil individual who may or may not have a fixation on Satanic imagery. To me, that explanation seems more plausible than demons. Now, if I saw this guy levitate and rotate his head 360 degrees before projectile vomiting... THAT would be an argument in favor of your case. As it stands now, with the information you gave, demons are eliminable from an explanation of the horrific events you described.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

How do we know that G-d is there? A similar question, which atheists ask again and again.

..and what is a "natural cause"?
Some people say that the earth evolved through natural cause..
..but I say that Almighty God is the Evolver from Naught.

I have no reason to believe that G-d, angels and demons are not part of reality.
I believe in the unseen .. a thought cannot be seen.

This is not a question of what you are anyone on here might believe. It is about the evidence that supports claims. Why is it so difficult to address the OP? What you or I believe is immaterial to the questions being asked.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

How do we know that G-d is there? A similar question, which atheists ask again and again.

..and what is a "natural cause"?
Some people say that the earth evolved through natural cause..
..but I say that Almighty God is the Evolver from Naught.

I have no reason to believe that G-d, angels and demons are not part of reality.
I believe in the unseen .. a thought cannot be seen.

If you are claiming knowledge of demons and the activity of demons, then it is your burden of proof to present the evidence you are using so that I can know it too.

Wouldn't you want others to be able to detect them?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

How do we know that G-d is there? A similar question, which atheists ask again and again.

..and what is a "natural cause"?
Some people say that the earth evolved through natural cause..
..but I say that Almighty God is the Evolver from Naught.

I have no reason to believe that G-d, angels and demons are not part of reality.
I believe in the unseen .. a thought cannot be seen.

There is evidence for thoughts. Your post is evidence of thinking. You can be hooked up to a machine and shown stimuli and get responses that can be correlated. This is evidence of thinking and thoughts. The experience of pain is also evidence of thought.

But it does not follow that unseen thoughts means demons.

How have you eliminated all the other possible unseen things that could also be the cause? How have you eliminated mental health issues as the cause?

These questions are not difficult. They do not demand anything extraordinary. But you would think that claimants were asked to pull a camel through the eye of needle.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Wouldn't you want others to be able to detect them?

Yes, but I can't force people to believe what I believe, and think like me.

The Qur'an is the main source of my knowledge.
I believe that G-d created angels made of light, and spirits[jinn] made of smokeless fire,
BEFORE He created mankind made of physical material..

I believe that there are demons/devils amongst mankind and jinn.
..on the other hand, there are many righteous amongst mankind and jinn as well.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes, but I can't force people to believe what I believe, and think like me.

The Qur'an is the main source of my knowledge.
I believe that G-d created angels made of light, and spirits[jinn] made of smokeless fire,
BEFORE He created mankind made of physical material..

I believe that there are demons/devils amongst mankind and jinn.
..on the other hand, there are many righteous amongst mankind and jinn as well.

I accept that you have beliefs and others have beliefs. I have beliefs. The thread is not challenging that. It is asking about the evidence that is used to determine demons. It seems that people are just guessing.

Do you think that a conclusion of demons without evidence should be the only conclusion considered even if the result is someone failing to receive needed mental healthcare just so that others can be comfortable in their beliefs?

I don't.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You represent a faith group that considers everyone that isn't part of your faith group to be damned…

I’m sorry, but I just couldn’t let this faulty statement, “to be damned”, to remain uncorrected.

This is a very erroneous statement! Misled maybe, but in no way damned! Jehovah God, Jesus’ Father and ours, is loving.

So all of your conclusions which are based on that faulty assumption, must be in error.

That’s the way Christendom thinks; but not Jehovah’s people, who are trying to follow Christ.

If most would only take the time to learn how Jehovah really teaches people, they would most likely come away feeling ‘refreshed’. As Jesus’ instruction was…. he was “taught” by his Father, Jesus had learned from Him. — Matthew 11:28-30; John 8:28.

I hope you will have a good day.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I’m sorry, but I just couldn’t let this faulty statement, “to be damned”, to remain uncorrected.

This is a very erroneous statement! Misled maybe, but in no way damned! Jehovah God, Jesus’ Father and ours, is loving.

So all of your conclusions which are based on that faulty assumption, must be in error.

That’s the way Christendom thinks; but not Jehovah’s people, who are trying to follow Christ.

If most would only take the time to learn how Jehovah really teaches people, they would most likely come away feeling ‘refreshed’. As Jesus’ instruction was…. he was “taught” by his Father, Jesus had learned from Him. — Matthew 11:28-30; John 8:28.

I hope you will have a good day.

I don't agree my conclusions are faulty and I don't have any reason to believe I have been misled by God.

I'm sorry that you think that, but you and your crew wanted to make me the center of attention. Perhaps you should have thought that through before deciding to go on the attack and constantly make passive aggressive references or harass me at every available opportunity. If the goal was to draw me in, the methodology to do so was so poor it pushed me right out.

I personally don't have a problem that people have personal beliefs or even with them relating them. I have my own. But when you bring claims to the open market and act as if they should be swallowed without question, I do have issues. I want evidence. I need a reason to agree with or accept the claims. I need more than the say so of some random person with an obvious agenda. I have issues with how personal interpretations are put to practice here.

I don't have any interest in discussing this further, but I am aware that Revelation 18: 2-24 has a specific interpretation among your organization and it isn't very flattering to the rest of us. My religion isn't false and it isn't under the control of Satan. I believe God wants me to think and use my knowledge and skills. I don't believe He wants me to take His gifts and use them poorly or build false narratives with them.

 

[YoursTrue]

I was just looking at a case, where a youngster stabbed a teenage girl one hundred and fourteen times. That's 1 1 4.
He was not diagnosed as a mental case. I guess it's his vestigial animal instinct that his mom could not possibly have seen.
Oh. They found drawings, some describe as "Satanic", because of for example, the Pentagram (seen on the guy's head).

Spoiler

You can get the details of those stab wounds here. Thirty-five were to the head, and quite a few were to the back.
He was not mentally ill. He was not possessed by demons. He just wanted to know "what it felt like to kill someone".... according to the judge that passed sentence...
Stabbing them 114 times

Normal human beings do that, I suppose. Well according to his grandmother, he was normal... until she saw him after the murder. He looked like a different person. "Like someone high on drugs". She said.

If I didn't know certain persons and read certain books before I became a Christian, I wouldn't necessarily believe it. As far as mental illness, it's a sad thing.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't agree my conclusions are faulty and I don't have any reason to believe I have been misled by God.

I'm sorry that you think that, but you and your crew wanted to make me the center of attention. Perhaps you should have thought that through before deciding to go on the attack and constantly make passive aggressive references or harass me at every available opportunity. If the goal was to draw me in, the methodology to do so was so poor it pushed me right out.

I personally don't have a problem that people have personal beliefs or even with them relating them. I have my own. But when you bring claims to the open market and act as if they should be swallowed without question, I do have issues. I want evidence. I need a reason to agree with or accept the claims. I need more than the say so of some random person with an obvious agenda. I have issues with how personal interpretations are put to practice here.

I don't have any interest in discussing this further, but I am aware that Revelation 18: 2-24 has a specific interpretation among your organization and it isn't very flattering to the rest of us. My religion isn't false and it isn't under the control of Satan. I believe God wants me to think and use my knowledge and skills. I don't believe He wants me to take His gifts and use them poorly or build false narratives with them.

I think you probably believe Moses was a made-up story also.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I don't agree my conclusions are faulty and I don't have any reason to believe I have been misled by God.

I'm sorry that you think that, but you and your crew wanted to make me the center of attention. Perhaps you should have thought that through before deciding to go on the attack and constantly make passive aggressive references or harass me at every available opportunity. If the goal was to draw me in, the methodology to do so was so poor it pushed me right out.

I personally don't have a problem that people have personal beliefs or even with them relating them. I have my own. But when you bring claims to the open market and act as if they should be swallowed without question, I do have issues. I want evidence. I need a reason to agree with or accept the claims. I need more than the say so of some random person with an obvious agenda. I have issues with how personal interpretations are put to practice here.

I don't have any interest in discussing this further, but I am aware that Revelation 18: 2-24 has a specific interpretation among your organization and it isn't very flattering to the rest of us. My religion isn't false and it isn't under the control of Satan. I believe God wants me to think and use my knowledge and skills. I don't believe He wants me to take His gifts and use them poorly or build false narratives with them.

Well said, Dan.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't agree my conclusions are faulty and I don't have any reason to believe I have been misled by God.

I'm sorry that you think that, but you and your crew wanted to make me the center of attention. Perhaps you should have thought that through before deciding to go on the attack and constantly make passive aggressive references or harass me at every available opportunity. If the goal was to draw me in, the methodology to do so was so poor it pushed me right out.

I personally don't have a problem that people have personal beliefs or even with them relating them. I have my own. But when you bring claims to the open market and act as if they should be swallowed without question, I do have issues. I want evidence. I need a reason to agree with or accept the claims. I need more than the say so of some random person with an obvious agenda. I have issues with how personal interpretations are put to practice here.

I don't have any interest in discussing this further, but I am aware that Revelation 18: 2-24 has a specific interpretation among your organization and it isn't very flattering to the rest of us. My religion isn't false and it isn't under the control of Satan. I believe God wants me to think and use my knowledge and skills. I don't believe He wants me to take His gifts and use them poorly or build false narratives with them.

Interesting that many biblical "scholars" seem to agree that the Bible is inaccurate. So then -- nothing much left except figure whatever a person wants to believe.

 

[YoursTrue]

You represent a faith group that considers everyone that isn't part of your faith group to be damned, so your derision of my faith is neither surprising nor any interest to me. It is you and yours that try to constantly make me the subject of interest here. I imagine, it is due to the fact that I represent a person that can accept reality and maintain their faith and you all don't like that.

Not all of us ignore God's creation in favor of the interpretations of people that demand you follow them or be shunned.

God's creation? What do you mean? What do you believe is "God's creation"?

 

[YoursTrue]

It isn't a question of degree. The thread is about the evidence that others use to make the claim of demon. That is what this thread is about. Lots of people are making claims of demons. The question is how do they do they know it is demons. There has been no unambiguous, objective evidence supplied that others can use and would draw the same conclusion.

If the spirits are unseen, how do you know they are there? How are others differentiating an ordinary natural cause from a spirit or a demon?

That is what the thread asks. I await an answer and from the looks of things, I, and others, will be waiting a long time.

I've heard a lot about how this is discernment, but again, there is no evidence that anyone on here has any special abilities that others don't have. It seems to me that this particular claim is offered as smoke and mirrors to shut others up.

I worry about Christians that play these games.

Judas Iscariot, was he a real person as depicted in the Bible? Or do you think he was part of a mythical account?

 

[YoursTrue]

Ah . . . no we do not have eyewitness accounts of the Resurrection. All accounts are later compilations which lack provenance dated not even near the life of Jesus. We have many claims of recent first hand accounts of UFOs and aliens, some very recent documented accounts by reliable military sources.

I'm sure you are hand in hand with many people here who consider themselves as Christian but who do not believe the biblical account of Jesus at all.

 

[YoursTrue]

Ah . . . no we do not have eyewitness accounts of the Resurrection. All accounts are later compilations which lack provenance dated not even near the life of Jesus. We have many claims of recent first hand accounts of UFOs and aliens, some very recent documented accounts by reliable military sources.

But then many do believe that the Virgin appeared to some children, right?
"Every local bishop since has approved the apparitions and deemed them worthy of belief, the highest recognition a Marian apparition can receive from the Church." (from the Catholic Encyclopedia)

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I think you probably believe Moses was a made-up story also.

You can believe whatever you want. I have no reason to consider that you haven't come to the worst conclusions you can think up regarding me. It is what I have come to expect.

But fortunately for me, you are not the voice and mind of God that I do believe in.

That is all I have to say on the subject.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Well said, Dan.

Thank you. I'm sorry that I have to say anything like that. I shouldn't have to.

 

[YoursTrue]

You can believe whatever you want. I have no reason to consider that you haven't come to the worst conclusions you can think up regarding me. It is what I have come to expect.

But fortunately for me, you are not the voice and mind of God that I do believe in.

That is all I have to say on the subject.

Not at all regarding the worst conclusions. In fact I have respect for you. That particularly about your knowledge about bugs. I'm being serious. What I find offsetting, however, is that some people with good minds evade or avoid exposing their individual beliefs. One thing I give Einstein -- he was open and honest about his beliefs about things.

 

[YoursTrue]

Thank you. I'm sorry that I have to say anything like that. I shouldn't have to.

That's ok. I've had to seriously consider my own beliefs and have made decisions. I'm not surprised about what Sgt. Pepper said though.