Demystifying Quantum Physics

[godnotgod]

There's a reason we distinguish between implicit attitudes in general and explicit. Intentions and awareness matter.





This is a forum. When things are posted that I don't agree with I will frequently say so, and I will also often note when I agree with something. You call it what you want and report what you wish. Being totally off-base and completely inaccurately describing quantum mechanics is one thing. Continuing a tradition of cultural elitism, racism, appropriation, etc., is something else. As I said, if you wish to describe your beliefs that's one thing. When you characterize peoples, cultures, traditions, etc., in a manner that reflects a documented tradition of Western biases and romanticized racism, that's no longer being inaccurate or otherwise presenting a personal view of evidence. It's no longer a philosophical issue, a disagreement about evidence or the nature of science, or anything like that. It's implicit racism and if your stereotypes of other peoples, their traditions, and their cultures is ok and it is not ok to ask you to refrain from such characterizations, then I really don't wish to be a member of such a forum in the first place.


I do.


You have consistently distinguished Eastern from Western in a manner that reflects a Western alienation of the East for various reasons over the past several hundred years. It's not ok.



"Eastern" isn't a spiritual tradition and neither are other remarks you have made about cultural heritage, cultural traditions, peoples, and distinctions regarding all of these. It's one thin to mock me and trivialize my instructor, as however inaccurate your description of him is or your opinion of me, that's just personal. Orientialism is not. It's continuing a tradition that is racist, colonialist, and a lot of other things that we can simply sum up with "it's wrong and you shouldn't do it".




Whatever. Stop trivializing entire cultures by applying whatever information you were fed from whatever internet sources that feeds your misrepresentation and does so in a manner that has (again) continued to plague cultural relations for several hundred years.

You're making things up out of whole cloth, jumping to conclusions. None of what you have stated bears any truth. None whatsoever. You're reading a whole lot of crap into what I have said.

Hunting me down and lying in wait is internet stalking. Labeling me a racist without any foundation is an ad hominem attack. More of the same will result in a report to administration. Your choice.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

You're making things up out of whole cloth,

I'm not. I'm not even arguing some point about QM or evidence of some historical Y or how illogical X is. There are some things more important than what I believe to be the spread of idiotic misconceptions and misrepresentations of things like science. Implicit racism is of of those things. I will use as exemplars (privately, of course, and not to any other than moderators without your permission) every single post you have made that constitutes the continuation of racist, elitist, appropriation, and stereotypical representation you have ever promoted. And there are so many I cannot even estimate a number. I asked you once before to back off from sexist statements you were unknowingly making. I'm asking again. Stop doing what you are doing or I will go through every mischaracterization, every distortion, every racist trivialization, every cultural appropriation, and every other misrepresentation of cultural traditions/practices/beliefs/etc. you feel so free to trivialize and show exactly how you have (unknowingly) promoted the same kinds of ideals behind Nazi Germany and hosts of other racist movements that reduce the culture, traditions,. identities, etc., of "the Mystic East" you have so thoroughly mischaracterized.

I will argue endlessly about pointless matters because of my own issues. Your promotion and continuation of Western racism, elitism. and doctored narrative is a different matter. If you don't know enough to realize the affinities your view has with such extremes as the Nazi party, then educate yourself before promoting what you do as if what you promote is based on cultural traditions, worldviews practices, etc.

None of what you have stated bears any truth.

How would you know? Your depictions, descriptions, explanations, analyses, etc., of the "mystic East" have always come from the same Western trivialization and racism that has dominated East/West relations. The fact that you were not aware of this is certainly important, but it does not mean you can continue to ignore how much your view is rooted in Western bias.

 

[atanu]

What happened? Why this noise?

 

[godnotgod]

I'm not. I'm not even arguing some point about QM or evidence of some historical Y or how illogical X is. There are some things more important than what I believe to be the spread of idiotic misconceptions and misrepresentations of things like science. Implicit racism is of of those things. I will use as exemplars (privately, of course, and not to any other than moderators without your permission) every single post you have made that constitutes the continuation of racist, elitist, appropriation, and stereotypical representation you have ever promoted. And there are so many I cannot even estimate a number. I asked you once before to back off from sexist statements you were unknowingly making. I'm asking again. Stop doing what you are doing or I will go through every mischaracterization, every distortion, every racist trivialization, every cultural appropriation, and every other misrepresentation of cultural traditions/practices/beliefs/etc. you feel so free to trivialize and show exactly how you have (unknowingly) promoted the same kinds of ideals behind Nazi Germany and hosts of other racist movements that reduce the culture, traditions,. identities, etc., of "the Mystic East" you have so thoroughly mischaracterized.

I will argue endlessly about pointless matters because of my own issues. Your promotion and continuation of Western racism, elitism. and doctored narrative is a different matter. If you don't know enough to realize the affinities your view has with such extremes as the Nazi party*, then educate yourself before promoting what you do as if what you promote is based on cultural traditions, worldviews practices, etc.



How would you know? Your depictions, descriptions, explanations, analyses, etc., of the "mystic East" have always come from the same Western trivialization and racism that has dominated East/West relations. The fact that you were not aware of this is certainly important, but it does not mean you can continue to ignore how much your view is rooted in Western bias.

I don't know what you're talking about. If you find my posts distasteful, then take the matter up with administration. That is what I intend to do if you persist with your ridiculous diatribe. This is not the place to air your delusions and misconceptions about the intent contained within my posts.

You're just plain wrong, LOM, and I refuse to discuss the matter with you.

*Now you've gone just a little too far. How dare you!

 

[godnotgod]

True but this leads me to think that you believe that sentience is somehow a supernatural occurance rather than a scientifically explained one?

It is neither. Science can't explain it because it is beyond the scope of science; it is not supernatural because that means a split between nature and some force or entity that has dominion over nature. We don't know of any such force. I am a Zennist. The ordinary and the miraculous for me are one and the same. This may be part of the reason that the idea of consciousness that pervades all of existence is so difficult to see, though it is quite simple. IOW, it's hiding right out in front, right under our noses, plain as day, in the ordinary, everyday world. We fail to see it because of our social indoctrination; because our consciousness is altered. Zen, for one, is a way which shows us that the way we see the world is not the way it actually is.* The idea of complete union of the ordinary and the miraculous is exemplified in the statement:

'Before Enlightenment, sweeping the floor;
after Enlightenment, sweeping the floor.'
Zen source

For whatever reason(s), we believe the correct approach is to gather facts and knowledge about the world, and that this in turn will somehow yield a great understanding or epiphany someday. I think scientists in general believe this to be the case. But this approach will never lead to such an understanding, simply because we do not understand the nature of things, and particularly our own natures, in the first place.** It just leads to more mechanistic, factual knowledge and yields a view of a dead, unconscious universe, which is no better than the theist's view of the universe as an artifact, in the manner of it being a pot and God the potter, or Maker.***

By attaining an understanding about the nature of reality first, it then illuminates the entire phenomenal world. That way, whatever is discovered by Science is understood in the correct light. All facts will then make perfect 'sense' because we already know the nature of the things the facts are about. If the universe were indeed a mechanical artifact without consciousness, we might piece it together from its various 'parts' and get a 'big picture', but if it is a living, conscious thing, then that approach will never work. It must then be apprehended in its entirety, right now, just as it is.

*'Before my study of Zen, mountains were just mountains, and trees just trees;
During my study, mountains were no longer mountains, and trees no longer trees;
After my Enlightenment, mountains were once again mountains, and trees once again trees.'
Zen source

**Both Jesus and Buddha warned about this problem.

***Someone here recently mentioned that the sub-atomic world must still obey laws of nature inherent in the universe, but what is not understood is that this notion was directly inherited from the Abrahamic religions. All science did was to exclude the idea of a God, but it kept the laws.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

It is neither. Science can't explain it because it is beyond the scope of science; it is not supernatural because that means a split between nature and some force or entity that has dominion over nature. We don't know of any such force. I am a Zennist. The ordinary and the miraculous for me are one and the same. This may be part of the reason that the idea of consciousness that pervades all of existence is so difficult to see, though it is quite simple. IOW, it's hiding right out in front, right under our noses, plain as day, in the ordinary, everyday world. We fail to see it because of our social indoctrination; because our consciousness is altered. Zen, for one, is a way which shows us that the way we see the world is not the way it actually is.* The idea of complete union of the ordinary and the miraculous is exemplified in the statement:

Unfortunately for you its not beyond the scope of science and we have a rudimentary understanding of how it works. So no its not beyond science.

For whatever reason(s), we believe the correct approach is to gather facts and knowledge about the world, and that this in turn will somehow yield a great understanding or epiphany someday.

Epiphany is the wrong word. Discovery is more accurate. I would rather have a discovery than an epiphany.

I think scientists in general believe this to be the case. But this approach will never lead to such an understanding, simply because we do not understand the nature of things, and particularly our own natures, in the first place.**

Again. Replace epiphany with "discovery" and you will be correct about scientists views. And turns out...the scientists were right. We now know more and understand more than ever before. One could meditate for generations and not yield anything. Or one can give it a single year's worth of dedicated study and walk out an expert.

It just leads to more mechanistic, factual knowledge and yields a view of a dead, unconscious universe, which is no better than the theist's view of the universe as an artifact, in the manner of it being a pot and God the potter, or Maker.***

Actually its much better as the theistic view is often incorrect and not based on anything except faith and superstition. Your devaluation of facts and knowledge is concerning. They are in the end all that matter in such discussions. Though we are all made of non-living substances. The universe is us and we the universe quite literally. The carbon in our cells are no different than the carbon found elsewhere. The hydrogen in our cells that are usually bonded to oxygen in the familiar H2O form are really no different than the hydrogen atoms in the sun undergoing nuclear fusion. We are "non-living" at our base. "living" and "non-living" actually comes from the fact that we didn't know what we were and now that we do its becoming a blurred line. For example The point "non life" became "life" is a mystery and quite frankly an impossible line to draw. Its because we are simply non-living atoms arranged in a very complex way that allow function.

By attaining an understanding about the nature of reality first, it then illuminates the entire phenomenal world. That way, whatever is discovered by Science is understood in the correct light. All facts will then make perfect 'sense' because we already know the nature of the things the facts are about. If the universe were indeed a mechanical artifact without consciousness, we might piece it together from its various 'parts' and get a 'big picture', but if it is a living, conscious thing, then that approach will never work. It must then be apprehended in its entirety, right now, just as it is.

You can only figure it out if you start off with the answer? Well go on with your baseless beliefs all you like. Its not a debate anymore its just you talking and me not accepting what you say. For that I really don't care for. However I do wish to correct you from your usage of QM in your explanations. They are incorrect. Factually incorrect.

***Someone here recently mentioned that the sub-atomic world must still obey laws of nature inherent in the universe, but what is not understood is that this notion was directly inherited from the Abrahamic religions. All science did was to exclude the idea of a God, but it kept the laws.

Actually it was me who stated that QM still follows laws of the universe. They aren't some free for all magical stuff. And no. You are dead wrong and demonstrably so. Nothing from the Abraham religion was inherited or even remotely connected to QM. If you'd like to defend this statement I would be very interested in how you are going to go about it.

 

[atanu]

One could meditate for generations and not yield anything. Or one can give it a single year's worth of dedicated study and walk out an expert.

To what end Monk? To what end? Will the expert himself die content and will he make any other person's burden easier?

 

[godnotgod]

Actually it was me who stated that QM still follows laws of the universe. They aren't some free for all magical stuff. And no. You are dead wrong and demonstrably so. Nothing from the Abraham religion was inherited or even remotely connected to QM. If you'd like to defend this statement I would be very interested in how you are going to go about it.

Of course, QM had not yet been discovered when the Abrahamic religions came into being, but QM is not what I was pointing to; I was pointing to a generalized notion that the universe was governed by a set of inherent laws. However, the idea of a universe governed by inherent laws extends to all future discoveries, and yes, that does include QM. The scientists simply omitted God from their view, but kept the idea of laws, as explained here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uUeEAUFkS4

and here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MdkkUwqtKo

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I don't know what you're talking about.

Would you like me to demonstrate using your statements (from this and/or other threads) to show you what I mean by "implicit racism", "cultural elitism", etc.?

If you find my posts distasteful

That's irrelevant. I find distasteful the way you inaccurately describe physics, history, languages, etc., but that's completely different. "Distasteful" and "continuing a historical implicit Western racism towards the 'mystic orient/east'" are two entirely different matters. In the first case, I have an issue with your opinions/views/etc. on specific topics. In the second case, it's your trivialization and "romantic racism" of the "exotic East", which means that it isn't your views but your characterizations of peoples, traditions, cultures, etc. It's when you speak, or claim to represent, "Eastern" views that are not "Eastern" but Western exploitation, appropriation, trivialization, and "racist romanticism".

That is what I intend to do if you persist with your ridiculous diatribe.

It's not a diatribe. Just stop claiming to speak for peoples that you don't, stop claiming you represent traditions you don't, stop claiming affinities with cultural heritage you don't have, etc. Your views are your views; why can't you just leave it at that?

This is not the place to air your delusions and misconceptions about the intent contained within my posts.

It absolutely is. The fact that you haven't studied enough history of Western/Eastern history to realize how thoroughly your are continuing a tradition that began centuries ago (and didn't just continue, but was adopted and adapted by everything from e.g., the Nazi party to British literature). Your views on quantum mechanics are not informed by an understanding of physics. Whatever views you ascribe to or believe you possess that make you believe you are saying anything accurate about QM has nothing to do with anything other than your personal interpretation of whatever sources you have. It is not a reflection of "Eastern" whatever that you misrepresent based on views rooted in disturbing, despicable, racist, colonialist, and otherwise completely unacceptable histories you are unaware exist.

You're just plain wrong, LOM, and I refuse to discuss the matter with you.

I don't want a discussion and this is not a point of debate over differing views of history, science, epistemology, or whatever. If it were, you'd be aware of the history behind the depictions/characterizations you have used. You are not. Hence "implicit" racism/elitism (not deliberate). Continue to promote whatever interpretations of QM or anything else you wish. I'm not addressing such points, only their attribution to cultural/racial foundations rather than your personal interpretation.

 

[godnotgod]

Unfortunately for you its not beyond the scope of science and we have a rudimentary understanding of how it works. So no its not beyond science.

I said it is beyond the scope of science, just as the existence and/or nature of God is. Consciousness is invisible, tasteless, odorless, silent, and formless. You cannot measure it or detect its presence via any scientific instrumentation. Only you can verify its presence. Science has zero understanding as to how it works. If you think it does, then tell me what 'understanding' science has about consciousness. Remember, however, that scientists are employing consciousness in their investigations.

Epiphany is the wrong word. Discovery is more accurate. I would rather have a discovery than an epiphany.
Again. Replace epiphany with "discovery" and you will be correct about scientists views. And turns out...the scientists were right. We now know more and understand more than ever before. One could meditate for generations and not yield anything. Or one can give it a single year's worth of dedicated study and walk out an expert.

Most real scientists are not so cocky. They have developed a sense of humility when they come to realize how little they really do know. Discovery only leads to more discovery, more facts, more accumulated knowledge, but less and less understanding; epiphany is a conclusive culmination, one which has yet to occur amongst scientists concerning the nature of the universe. We have no more real understanding about the universe than we did before. Sure, we have more knowledge, but so what? We don't really know what that knowledge signifies.

Actually its much better as the theistic view is often incorrect and not based on anything except faith and superstition.

I am not advocating a theistic view.

Your devaluation of facts and knowledge is concerning. They are in the end all that matter in such discussions.

Only within the context of science. I don't devalue facts and knowledge at all. We need both, but neither can tell us about the nature of Reality. We need to understand the nature of Reality FIRST as a means of interpreting facts and knowledge. Otherwise, of what use are they if you don't know how to live? If anything, our modern gadgets, developed via science and technology, have proliferated to the point of controlling our lives. We've lost touch with the real stuff that yields happiness, and live shallow lives where the glitter and attraction of these gadgets is short-lived, like a child who tires easily of his many toys. We are hypnotized by the next crop of techno-gadgets coming to the marketplace, when we've barely learned to use the ones we bought last year...or is it now last month? Truth is, science and technology have us salivating at the mouth. We still think these two will somehow create happiness and make our lives easier. That is our delusion.

footnote: the pursuit of techno-gadgets is operative on one of the 3 lower centers of consciousness, primarily that of Sensation; the other two being Power and Security, and all 3 of which are Addictions. Sensation particularly is like a drug, requiring a bigger and bigger fix each time to get the same high. We see this especially nowadays in Xtreme Sports and other dangerous pursuits, , where the risks become greater and greater, and even involve death. We've become numbed and bored with life, because we don't have any real understanding of what it actually is. So we get cheap thrills by putting ourselves in extreme danger. Unfortunately, like a drug high, these are short-lived, and then we have to seek even more sensation to keep from getting bored and numbed again. Bigger and flashier cars, houses, clothing, jewelry, breasts, etc., all because we are miserable failures when it comes down to simply knowing who we really are.

Though we are all made of non-living substances. The universe is us and we the universe quite literally. The carbon in our cells are no different than the carbon found elsewhere. The hydrogen in our cells that are usually bonded to oxygen in the familiar H2O form are really no different than the hydrogen atoms in the sun undergoing nuclear fusion. We are "non-living" at our base. "living" and "non-living" actually comes from the fact that we didn't know what we were and now that we do its becoming a blurred line. For example The point "non life" became "life" is a mystery and quite frankly an impossible line to draw. Its because we are simply non-living atoms arranged in a very complex way that allow function.

So man is just a machine and the universe a gyrating stupidity.

What? 'allow function'?....what allows function?

You can only figure it out if you start off with the answer?

That's not what I said.

There's nothing to 'figure out'.

What I said is that facts and knowledge only make sense within the context of an enlightened consciousness, because enlightened consciousness points to the nature of reality. Once you understand the nature of things, facts and knowledge about them are seen in the correct light. Without an enlightened awareness of one's real nature and the nature of the world, the intellect can only lead you on and on to nowhere.

 

[godnotgod]

Would you like me to demonstrate using your statements (from this and/or other threads) to show you what I mean by "implicit racism", "cultural elitism", etc.?


That's irrelevant. I find distasteful the way you inaccurately describe physics, history, languages, etc., but that's completely different. "Distasteful" and "continuing a historical implicit Western racism towards the 'mystic orient/east'" are two entirely different matters. In the first case, I have an issue with your opinions/views/etc. on specific topics. In the second case, it's your trivialization and "romantic racism" of the "exotic East", which means that it isn't your views but your characterizations of peoples, traditions, cultures, etc. It's when you speak, or claim to represent, "Eastern" views that are not "Eastern" but Western exploitation, appropriation, trivialization, and "racist romanticism".



It's not a diatribe. Just stop claiming to speak for peoples that you don't, stop claiming you represent traditions you don't, stop claiming affinities with cultural heritage you don't have, etc. Your views are your views; why can't you just leave it at that?



It absolutely is. The fact that you haven't studied enough history of Western/Eastern history to realize how thoroughly your are continuing a tradition that began centuries ago (and didn't just continue, but was adopted and adapted by everything from e.g., the Nazi party to British literature). Your views on quantum mechanics are not informed by an understanding of physics. Whatever views you ascribe to or believe you possess that make you believe you are saying anything accurate about QM has nothing to do with anything other than your personal interpretation of whatever sources you have. It is not a reflection of "Eastern" whatever that you misrepresent based on views rooted in disturbing, despicable, racist, colonialist, and otherwise completely unacceptable histories you are unaware exist.



I don't want a discussion and this is not a point of debate over differing views of history, science, epistemology, or whatever. If it were, you'd be aware of the history behind the depictions/characterizations you have used. You are not. Hence "implicit" racism/elitism (not deliberate). Continue to promote whatever interpretations of QM or anything else you wish. I'm not addressing such points, only their attribution to cultural/racial foundations rather than your personal interpretation.

I'm not interested in discussing any of this with you in the least. All I am saying is that my interest lies in the spiritual experience itself, which is transcendent of race, history, and culture, and how the transformation of consciousness relates to the universe in its entirety. Period. Anything you say as regards race, culture, etc. does not apply, and your association of my view with Nazism is insulting to say the least and just over the top. So basically, you are on my 'Ignore' list.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

All I am saying is that my interest lies in the spiritual experience itself, which is transcendent of race, history, and culture, and how the transformation of consciousness relates to the universe in its entirety. Period.

Ok. So long as you espouse the above, my argument is just disagreement (nothing special).

Anything you say as regards race, culture, etc. does not apply, and your association of my view with Nazism is insulting to say the least and just over the top.

I'd be happy to go over, in detail, the history. However, it's irrelevant and unimportant as
1) You didn't mean express anything racist or culturally biased
&
2) You state above that your views/interest/etc. is your personal experience and expression.

So basically, you are on my 'Ignore' list.

Ok by me. However, if you do continue to link your views with racial/cultural history that I objected to in the first place, then I will bring it up with the admins and they will sort it out.

 

[godnotgod]

.....if you do continue to link your views with racial/cultural history that I objected to in the first place......

Except that I've never done that.

You can take back your completely erroneous and vulgar comment re: Nazism any time you wish.

 

[godnotgod]

How do you know these direct experiences are not simply delusions? And without "thought" you litterally can't "experience" anything.

The state of delusion has an opposite condition. It is this condition of consciousness that allows you to know whether you are deluded or not. It is always there, just underneath the surface, trying to speak to us, but is drowned out much of the time by our preoccupation with the world.

Why do you require thought as part of your experience? I think you mean consciousness, not thought. If anything, thought gets in the way of experience, diminishing it.

 

[godnotgod]

The Science Delusion
by Rupert Sheldrake
(a banned TED talk)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

 

[idav]

The state of delusion has an opposite condition. It is this condition of consciousness that allows you to know whether you are deluded or not. It is always there, just underneath the surface, trying to speak to us, but is drowned out much of the time by our preoccupation with the world.

Why do you require thought as part of your experience? I think you mean consciousness, not thought. If anything, thought gets in the way of experience, diminishing it.

I really do take to the Buddhist type concepts of meditation, detachment and enlightenment. However I have no reason to believe that any spiritual experience is anything more than our material brain producing thoughts that we consider spiritual or transcendent even. Science confirms meditation works no matter which religion you try it with. There is nothing special about a guru or buddha that cant be realized by the rest of us normal people especially when we have passed the age of Enlightenment and are well into the information age. Your propping up your own view and mentors status is nothing more than stroking the ego, which is the very thing you complain about everyone else.

 

[godnotgod]

I have no reason to believe that any spiritual experience is anything more than our material brain producing thoughts that we consider spiritual or transcendent even.

The spiritual experience is beyond any belief or thought you may have about it. It is not a mental exercise.

There is nothing special about a guru or buddha that cant be realized by the rest of us normal people especially when we have passed the age of Enlightenment and are well into the information age.

Enlightenment is not about information. It is about seeing, and how one sees.

Spiritual enlightenment is not the same as that of the Age of Enlightenment, which is about Reason; it was an intellectual movement. Spiritual enlightenment is not intellectually-based. It does, however, illuminate the intellect.

Your propping up your own view and mentors status is nothing more than stroking the ego, which is the very thing you complain about everyone else.

I don't have a mentor.

Just about everything I've posted has to do with illuminating the machinations of the ego as contrasted with the spiritual experience. What are you referring to?

There are personal views and there is a universal view. The source of the universal view is not the self. If you were genuine about your Buddhist meditation practice, you would know what I'm referring to.

 

[idav]

The spiritual experience is beyond any belief or thought you may have about it. It is not a mental exercise.



Enlightenment is not about information. It is about seeing, and how one sees.

Spiritual enlightenment is not the same as that of the Age of Enlightenment, which is about Reason; it was an intellectual movement. Spiritual enlightenment is not intellectually-based. It does, however, illuminate the intellect.

The buddha texts talk about knowledge and even omniscience. Experience is direct knowledge.

 

[godnotgod]

The buddha texts talk about knowledge and even omniscience. Experience is direct knowledge.

It's not the same kind of knowledge one gets from intellectual pursuits.

In contrast to the classical Western antithesis of religion and science, Buddhism shares with science a common commitment to uncover the truth about the world. Both Buddhism and science draw a sharp distinction between the way things appear, and the way they really are, and both offer to open our minds to insights into the real nature of things normally hidden from us by false ideas based on sense perception and "common sense." Nevertheless, despite this affinity, it is also necessary to recognize the great differences in aim and orientation that separate Buddhism and science. While both may share certain conceptions about the nature of reality, science is essentially a project designed to provide us with objective, factual knowledge, with information pertaining to the public domain, while Buddhism is a spiritual path intended to promote inner transformation and the realization of the highest good, called enlightenment, liberation, or Nibbana. In Buddhism, the quest for knowledge is important not as an end in itself, but because the main cause of our bondage and suffering is ignorance, not understanding things as they really are, and thus the antidote needed to heal ourselves is knowledge or insight.

excerpted from:
Two Paths to Knowledge
by Bhikkhu Bodhi

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/bps-essay_42.html

IOW, via insight and illumination, the causes of suffering are revealed and liberation can occur. Seeing is literally knowledge itself.

 

[idav]

It's not the same kind of knowledge one gets from intellectual pursuits.

In contrast to the classical Western antithesis of religion and science, Buddhism shares with science a common commitment to uncover the truth about the world. Both Buddhism and science draw a sharp distinction between the way things appear, and the way they really are, and both offer to open our minds to insights into the real nature of things normally hidden from us by false ideas based on sense perception and "common sense." Nevertheless, despite this affinity, it is also necessary to recognize the great differences in aim and orientation that separate Buddhism and science. While both may share certain conceptions about the nature of reality, science is essentially a project designed to provide us with objective, factual knowledge, with information pertaining to the public domain, while Buddhism is a spiritual path intended to promote inner transformation and the realization of the highest good, called enlightenment, liberation, or Nibbana. In Buddhism, the quest for knowledge is important not as an end in itself, but because the main cause of our bondage and suffering is ignorance, not understanding things as they really are, and thus the antidote needed to heal ourselves is knowledge or insight.

excerpted from:
Two Paths to Knowledge
by Bhikkhu Bodhi

Two Paths to Knowledge

IOW, via insight and illumination, the causes of suffering are revealed and liberation can occur. Seeing is literally knowledge itself.

I dont really think buddhism and science contrast all that much. Science has the means to show what this "spiritual" aspect of life really is. Buddhism doesnt claim to have the answers, if science showed what spirit really is, buddhism would follow suit.

Modern medical science is only beginning to explore the subtle interconnections between body and mind, between the physical and spiritual aspects of life. Ultimately, Buddhism views both physical and spiritual aspects as vital manifestations of the life force that is inherent in the cosmos itself. As Nichiren wrote: "Life at each moment encompasses both body and spirit and both self and environment of all sentient beings in every condition of life, as well as non-sentient beings--plants, sky and earth, on down to the most minute particles of dust. Life at each moment permeates the universe and is revealed in all phenomena."
The Oneness of Body and Mind | Buddhism | Soka Gakkai International (SGI)