Determining the Validity of a Prophecy

[Brian2]

If even one prophecy in the Old Testament fails then all fail really, right? Because God is directing the prophecy and God is perfect therefore he cannot give a single wrong prophecy.

Luke 24:46. Speaking to his disciples on the night of his alleged resurrection, he said, "Thus it is written and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day."

Corinthians 15:3-4 ....He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

Not a single Old Testament passage makes this alleged third-day prediction. It simply doesn't exist.

There is plenty about His rising from the dead but it is a bit hidden. I think God did not want the Jews to know that they would be killing their Messiah, so some things are hidden in ways that we can see them in hindsight but not so easy to see them beforehand.
"On the third day" is like that.
Jesus said that He would give the Jews the sign of the Prophet Jonah. No doubt everyone scratched their head about that one until after Jesus rose on the third day just as Jonah had been in the fish, symbolically dead, for 3 days. Johan was the only prophet from Galilee interestingly enough. He was a type of Jesus.
Similarly God asked Abraham to sacrifice his firstborn, Isaac, even though God had promised that Isaac would be the father of a great nation. Jesus is God's firstborn and God promised Him that He would be the father of the Kingdom of God and rule it. Isaac is also a type of Jesus and Isaac we symbolically dead for 3 days, the time it took Abraham and Isaac to travel to the mountain where the sacrifice was to happen. Then the sacrifice was stopped, symbolically Isaac was brought back to life in Abraham's eyes. Interestingly in Jewish tradition the Mountain on which Isaac was to be sacrificed (Mt Moriah) is the same one as the Temple is built on with it's sacrifices and Golgotha (where Jesus died)
The ram which Isaac's sacrifice is replaced by and what Abraham told Isaac (the LORD will provide the sacrifice) point to God's firstborn whom God provided to save us from death.
Another one is this one:
Hosea 6:1 Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us to pieces, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bind up our wounds. 2 After two days He will revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His presence.
Another I have heard is in the story of Noah where it says that the Ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat on the 17th day of the 7th month. So they symbolically got back their life on that day. It seems that this day is the same day as the 17th Nissan when Jesus rose. This is the first month in the Jewish calendar but the story is that the calendar changed by 6 months from the time of Noah, I guess when God told the Jews/Moses that Nissan would be their first month. I'm not sure how they known it was a change of 6 months. Interestingly in the NT baptism is related to Noah going through the waters of the flood (1Peter 3:20-22)
It is interesting how these things can be seen after the fact. That points to a role of prophecy as not just being a prediction that everyone would be able to understand and also shows that, because these things were hidden in the Old Testament, people would find it very hard to read them and make up a story around them about the Messiah.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

There is plenty about His rising from the dead but it is a bit hidden. I think God did not want the Jews to know that they would be killing their Messiah, so some things are hidden in ways that we can see them in hindsight but not so easy to see them beforehand.
"On the third day" is like that.
Jesus said that He would give the Jews the sign of the Prophet Jonah. No doubt everyone scratched their head about that one until after Jesus rose on the third day just as Jonah had been in the fish, symbolically dead, for 3 days. Johan was the only prophet from Galilee interestingly enough. He was a type of Jesus.
Similarly God asked Abraham to sacrifice his firstborn, Isaac, even though God had promised that Isaac would be the father of a great nation. Jesus is God's firstborn and God promised Him that He would be the father of the Kingdom of God and rule it. Isaac is also a type of Jesus and Isaac we symbolically dead for 3 days, the time it took Abraham and Isaac to travel to the mountain where the sacrifice was to happen. Then the sacrifice was stopped, symbolically Isaac was brought back to life in Abraham's eyes. Interestingly in Jewish tradition the Mountain on which Isaac was to be sacrificed (Mt Moriah) is the same one as the Temple is built on with it's sacrifices and Golgotha (where Jesus died)
The ram which Isaac's sacrifice is replaced by and what Abraham told Isaac (the LORD will provide the sacrifice) point to God's firstborn whom God provided to save us from death.
Another one is this one:
Hosea 6:1 Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us to pieces, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bind up our wounds. 2 After two days He will revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His presence.
Another I have heard is in the story of Noah where it says that the Ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat on the 17th day of the 7th month. So they symbolically got back their life on that day. It seems that this day is the same day as the 17th Nissan when Jesus rose. This is the first month in the Jewish calendar but the story is that the calendar changed by 6 months from the time of Noah, I guess when God told the Jews/Moses that Nissan would be their first month. I'm not sure how they known it was a change of 6 months. Interestingly in the NT baptism is related to Noah going through the waters of the flood (1Peter 3:20-22)
It is interesting how these things can be seen after the fact. That points to a role of prophecy as not just being a prediction that everyone would be able to understand and also shows that, because these things were hidden in the Old Testament, people would find it very hard to read them and make up a story around them about the Messiah.

The Sun (Son) will “die” at midnight on December 21, it will “rebirth” (resurrect) on midnight December 24. This occurs at the beginning of Winter every year for the past 4.6 billion years. It is called the Winter Solstice

Does Jesus the SON share the birthday with the SUN?

 

[Brian2]

The Sun (Son) will “die” at midnight on December 21, it will “rebirth” (resurrect) on midnight December 24. This occurs at the beginning of Winter every year for the past 4.6 billion years. It is called the Winter Solstice

Does Jesus the SON share the birthday with the SUN?

I did not know there were 3 shortest days.
This has nothing to do with OT prophecy.
Mithra has nothing to do with Jesus.
Jesus was probably born at a different time of year according to the Biblical evidence.
Biblical Evidence Shows Jesus Christ Wasn't Born on Dec. 25
The birth of Jesus is not the time of His death and resurrection.
Knowing how you like Mark.
Mark 9:30Going on from there, they passed through Galilee. But Jesus did not want anyone to know, 31because He was teaching His disciples. He told them, “ The Son of Man will be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill Him, and after three days He will rise.”

 

[Clara Tea]

• The prophecy must not be about something that is likely to happen anyway.

• Where we have verified that the prophecy was written prior to the event that fulfilled it.

• Where we have verified that the event that fulfilled it really took place in a way that fulfilled the prophecy.

• The the fulfilling event was not done by someone simply to make the prophecy come true.

• The prophecy is specific and is not open to interpretation.

The bible discussed false prophets. It also relies on true prophets.

Revelation (a chapter of the bible) was the prophecy of St. John the Divine (it says that if we attack Babylon, Iraq, God will make seven plagues (Revelation 15), including COVID, economic disaster, etc). We will be called the Whore of Babylon if we defeat Iraq and occupy it (altering its elections to make sure that it isn't anti-American, corrupting it with rapes, etc). Our presidents will be known as the Dragon and the Beast.

The bible, itself, would not exist without prophets. The bible was written over 100 years after the death of apostles and Jesus by divine psychic ability. These prophets were no longer around to talk about Jesus.

As President W. Bush got ready to attack Iraq, God send divine messages to the most powerful psychics on earth. The messages were exactly the same as Revelation. No one heeded God's prophets, and everyone allowed the president to defy God and kill Iraqis (remember.....thou shalt not kill and turn the other cheek).

The fact that the modern psychics of God said exactly the same thing as St. John the Divine, meant that the modern psychics were true psychics (because they agree with the bible).

Revelation, though ridiculous when it was written (many hundreds of years ago), came true in every way. It was ridiculous, for example, for a coalition of many nations to be made in mere hours before the era of modern communication....but that is exactly what happened. It was ridiculous to think of tanks spewing fire, but that is exactly what the bible predicted, and that came true in every way.

NOT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION:

I strongly disagree....psychic information (ESP) almost always must be interpreted. This is because it must be interpreted by a human brain that is wired to accept visual and aural information. But, psychic information is not visual nor aural. It comes into the brain in other ways, and must be interpreted by the brain in the only way that the brain can process it (using visual or aural parts of the brain). So, a psychic might see seven candles, but the psychic is able to interpret that as seven churches because they have been accustomed to viewing it that way.

This is why Revelation of the bible is written the way it is. Revelation is also interpreted by other pages of Revelation (like Revelation 17:18 (discussing the United States which is the Whore of Babylon): "And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth)." The Whore of Babylon, of course, is the country that fought Iraq twice (once by the Dragon, and once by the Beast, his son). The Whore of Babylon is the country that was known for excessive wealth (especially pearl necklaces like the simple pearl necklace that Barbara Bush used to brag about). The Whore of Babylon was known for sexual misconduct, like the sex scandal of Bill Clinton and Monica, or the even worse sex scandal of President George H. W. Bush and Jennifer Fitzgerald.

Upon first reading, the meaning of Revelation is obscure, but further reading explains what was meant in earlier passages, so that, eventually, the meaning of Revelation becomes crystal clear.

When God sent modern revelations to modern psychics, he picked the best psychics in the world. Some had been working with the Central Intelligence Agency to locate Soviet submarines. Some were connected to the Association of Research and Enlightenment (Edgar Cayce started this organization of psychics). Many of God's psychics got together on the internet, in forums, and many knew of each other's screen names (psychically) before they met on the internet (so they knew each other's screen names before they met). They also traveled to each other's homes by astral projection and had nice visits. They also played psychic games with each other (holding up fingers and asking the other to count their fingers, though they could not see them and they were thousands of miles away).

The modern psychics of God warned not to attack Iraq, but no one listened to them. They were the last chance of God to save humanity from the end times that we currently are in. God tried....humans thought they were smarter than God.

 

[night912]

Similarly God asked Abraham to sacrifice his firstborn, Isaac, even though God had promised that Isaac would be the father of a great nation. Jesus is God's firstborn and God promised Him that He would be the father of the Kingdom of God and rule it. Isaac is also a type of Jesus and Isaac we symbolically dead for 3 days, the time it took Abraham and Isaac to travel to the mountain where the sacrifice was to happen. Then the sacrifice was stopped, symbolically Isaac was brought back to life in Abraham's eyes. Interestingly in Jewish tradition the Mountain on which Isaac was to be sacrificed (Mt Moriah) is the same one as the Temple is built on with it's sacrifices and Golgotha (where Jesus died)
The ram which Isaac's sacrifice is replaced by and what Abraham told Isaac (the LORD will provide the sacrifice) point to God's firstborn whom God provided to save us from death.

What's the connection between Abraham sacrificing his second born and God's first born? Nothing, so no prophecy there.

 

[nPeace]

If even one prophecy in the Old Testament fails then all fail really, right? Because God is directing the prophecy and God is perfect therefore he cannot give a single wrong prophecy.

Luke 24:46. Speaking to his disciples on the night of his alleged resurrection, he said, "Thus it is written and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day."

Corinthians 15:3-4 ....He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

Not a single Old Testament passage makes this alleged third-day prediction. It simply doesn't exist.

That's to assume we have found all the writings.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I did not know there were 3 shortest days.
This has nothing to do with OT prophecy.
Mithra has nothing to do with Jesus.
Jesus was probably born at a different time of year according to the Biblical evidence.
Biblical Evidence Shows Jesus Christ Wasn't Born on Dec. 25
The birth of Jesus is not the time of His death and resurrection.
Knowing how you like Mark.
Mark 9:30Going on from there, they passed through Galilee. But Jesus did not want anyone to know, 31because He was teaching His disciples. He told them, “ The Son of Man will be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill Him, and after three days He will rise.”

It never occurs to people that Jesus dying and rising in 3 days was originally a pagan worship ritual based on the sun (Son) dying Dec 21 and rising on the 25th that got incorporated into the Jesus mythology because Jewish religious practices were absorbing all sorts of beliefs from a variety of other religions. This is called syncretism. The 3-day dying/rising is all over the Bible. Jonah "died" when he was swallowed by the whale. He was "dead" 3 days inside the whale. He "rose" when the whale spit him out.

1 Kings 12:5

Then he said to them, “Depart for three days, then return to me.” So the people departed.
2 Kings 2:17
Verse Concepts

But when they urged him until he was ashamed, he said, “Send.” They sent therefore fifty men; and they searched three days but did not find him.
1 Chronicles 12:39
Verse Concepts

They were there with David three days, eating and drinking, for their kinsmen had prepared for them.
Ezra 8:32

Thus we came to Jerusalem and remained there three days.
Nehemiah 2:11

So I came to Jerusalem and was there three days.

Source: 27 Bible verses about Three Days

There were three patriarchs. The Torah is sub-divided into three parts—Pentateuch, Prophets and Scriptures. Jews pray three times a day. Many stanzas in our prayers are repeated three times. Abraham was visited by three angels following his circumcision at the age of 99. The Torah was given in the third month of the Jewish calendar by Moses, the third child of his parents.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2078/jewish/The-Secret-of-the-Number-Three.htm


Brian, do you think it's an accident that hundreds of verses in the Bible use 3 days?

 

[nPeace]

I think prophesies in the Bible are mainly warnings for disciples of Jesus so that they are prepared when certain things happen. I don’t think they are meant to be evidence, for I don’t think anything would be sufficient for a person who doesn’t want to be loyal to God. But, for me they are also evidence, they confirm the matter, when things go as told in the Bible.

In some way, you are correct, but in another, the disciples asked for signs - an indication of an event. (Matthew 24:3) Similar to when Gideon and Hezekiah asked God for a sign (2 Kings 20:8-11), and was given it, confirming God was with them, the disciples wanted to be sure that they might not be misled. So they needed something that would give them clear evidence.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

That's to assume we have found all the writings.

Who knows? Maybe the original gospels are out there buried under some rock in the Sinai. What good does it do us right now?

 

[nPeace]

Who knows? Maybe the original gospels are out there buried under some rock in the Sinai. What good does it do us right now?

Hezekiah's seal was also buried under much rock... until archaeologists dug it up, and it was said, now we have undeniable proof that what was written on the pages of this rejected book, was actually the truth.
What I am saying, is why assume that a statement is false, simply on the basis of not having the letter, or whatever artifact, in hand.
Much of what Paul wrote is true. His letters for the most part are accepted... Corinthians included.
Why call a person a liar, just because they are not here to stand in a courtroom, and present their evidence?
Does that seem fair to you?

I have heard people say, "Don't judge." (not referring to you). Yet they judge people as liars, and they haven't even a shred of evidence to pass that judgment.
Is that fair to you?

 

[Trailblazer]

It never occurs to people that Jesus dying and rising in 3 days was originally a pagan worship ritual based on the sun (Son) dying Dec 21 and rising on the 25th that got incorporated into the Jesus mythology because Jewish religious practices were absorbing all sorts of beliefs from a variety of other religions. This is called syncretism. The 3-day dying/rising is all over the Bible. Jonah "died" when he was swallowed by the whale. He was "dead" 3 days inside the whale. He "rose" when the whale spit him out.

Or maybe it is based upon this myth.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Or maybe it is based upon this myth.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1

Exactly. One the many connections between Jesus and earlier dying/rising pagan gods.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Hezekiah's seal was also buried under much rock... until archaeologists dug it up, and it was said, now we have undeniable proof that what was written on the pages of this rejected book, was actually the truth.
What I am saying, is why assume that a statement is false, simply on the basis of not having the letter, or whatever artifact, in hand.
Much of what Paul wrote is true. His letters for the most part are accepted... Corinthians included.
Why call a person a liar, just because they are not here to stand in a courtroom, and present their evidence?
Does that seem fair to you?

I have heard people say, "Don't judge." (not referring to you). Yet they judge people as liars, and they haven't even a shred of evidence to pass that judgment.
Is that fair to you?

I just go by what God has showed us now. Right now it is quite scarce. Obviously God has his reasons for not revealing all the buried treasures that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt Jesus died for our sins.

 

[nPeace]

I just go by what God has showed us now. Right now it is quite scarce. Obviously God has his reasons for not revealing all the buried treasures that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt Jesus died for our sins.

 

[Deeje]

In other words it is not demonstrable that the prophecy was made before the return from captivity and/or by Isaiah in my opinion.

When you can't disprove what a person says, undermine their credibility instead...its an old trick.
I believe the one who gave us the Bible because I know he is its author and his secretaries were chosen by him. That is fine with me. You can decide for yourself....

Ah, quoting a prophecy that has not even been fulfilled as an example of a prophecy that meets the OP's mentioned criteria #2 of being fulfilled lol.

I am not interested in man's criteria....I thought I made that clear.
If the OP criteria is also yours, then that is your opinion.......so what is that to me?

Why cut off the pophecy at vs 14 when it goes to verse 35 inclusive? Is it because that demonstrates the prophecy to be false because verse 35 includes the words, "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."? Compare that to the NWT verse 35 "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen."

This always makes me smile....people who do not know the Bible criticize what it says in absolute ignorance.

The "generation" that Jesus spoke of were the brothers of Christ....the "chosen ones" who will rule with him in heaven. They began to be chosen in the first century with the 12 apostles. All of the first Christians were of that "generation" because it was God, who by his spirit, "generated" them....choosing them to become members of his spiritual family.

A foretold apostasy manifested itself after the first century taking "the church" in a very different direction and so there were very few among the apostate church members who were selected to become part of that generation for many centuries. But at "the time of the end" God foretold through his prophet Daniel that he would "cleanse, whiten and refine" a people who would be given insight and understanding of many things. (Daniel 12:9-10) The 'generation' of chosen ones then began to swell with new members of that brotherhood.

They are still with us when Christ returns, as the Bible indicates. All of them have to die and be raised as spirit beings in order to dwell in the presence of God. Jesus resurrects them first. (Revelation 20:6) These are "kings and priests" who will rule over earthly subjects. (Revelation 21:2-4) Whether we are among those subjects is largely a matter of how well we meet the criteria that God set for the disciples of his son...now.

 

[Tiberius]

You said predictions are like "If X is done, Y happens". I was saying that is not necessary.

Where did I say that?

 

[Tiberius]

If you don't want to believe in God, what is anyone going to tell you, according to your own reasoning?

The differe2nce is that I will accept what the evidence supports. What I want to believe is irrelevant.

And a person who does not believe in God is going to do exactly the same....

There's a difference though.

A person who wants to believe in a God is probably going to accept a very poor argument that supports God and is probably going to reject a very strong argument that shows there isn't a God. And you are right when you say that the opposite applies for a person who does not want to believe in God.

But most atheists I've seen aren't the "I don't want to believe in God" type. They honestly don't care one way or another. That's the way I am. All they want is the evidence. And when you have someone who just wants to see what the evidence is, without caring what position the evidence supports, then they're going to accept the evidence, even if it means they believe in God.

I have never come across a strong argument for there being no Intelligent Creator.

I've never come across a strong argument that there is one.

Sorry, but God is not interested in your criteria....he has his own and expects us to meet that....so how are you doing in that respect? I think you completely underestimate his interest in atheists....

IMO, He owes us nothing.....we owe him everything.

So you claim, but it's just a claim which you can't support.

 

[Tiberius]

The bible discussed false prophets. It also relies on true prophets.

So we need some way to tell the difference between the true and the false ones. That's where my five criteria come in.

Revelation (a chapter of the bible) was the prophecy of St. John the Divine (it says that if we attack Babylon, Iraq, God will make seven plagues (Revelation 15), including COVID, economic disaster, etc). We will be called the Whore of Babylon if we defeat Iraq and occupy it (altering its elections to make sure that it isn't anti-American, corrupting it with rapes, etc). Our presidents will be known as the Dragon and the Beast.

Given that disease is always going to be among us (we could include Spanish Flu from a hundred years ago, the AIDS epidemic of the 80s, the numerous depressions the economy has suffered, etc if we wanted to prove our point), claims of plagues isn't really a specific claim. You're also making assumptions that particular events will happen just because you've read the prophecy, come up with an interpretation and then just assumed you must be correct.

The bible, itself, would not exist without prophets. The bible was written over 100 years after the death of apostles and Jesus by divine psychic ability. These prophets were no longer around to talk about Jesus.

or maybe it was just stories distorted over the years and they don't actually accurately describe what happened, if indeed the stories ever happened in the first place.

As President W. Bush got ready to attack Iraq, God send divine messages to the most powerful psychics on earth. The messages were exactly the same as Revelation. No one heeded God's prophets, and everyone allowed the president to defy God and kill Iraqis (remember.....thou shalt not kill and turn the other cheek).

The fact that the modern psychics of God said exactly the same thing as St. John the Divine, meant that the modern psychics were true psychics (because they agree with the bible).

You can't just assume that something is true though.

Revelation, though ridiculous when it was written (many hundreds of years ago), came true in every way. It was ridiculous, for example, for a coalition of many nations to be made in mere hours before the era of modern communication....but that is exactly what happened. It was ridiculous to think of tanks spewing fire, but that is exactly what the bible predicted, and that came true in every way.

Only if you interpret it a certain way.

NOT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION:

I strongly disagree....psychic information (ESP) almost always must be interpreted. This is because it must be interpreted by a human brain that is wired to accept visual and aural information. But, psychic information is not visual nor aural. It comes into the brain in other ways, and must be interpreted by the brain in the only way that the brain can process it (using visual or aural parts of the brain). So, a psychic might see seven candles, but the psychic is able to interpret that as seven churches because they have been accustomed to viewing it that way.

This is why Revelation of the bible is written the way it is. Revelation is also interpreted by other pages of Revelation (like Revelation 17:18 (discussing the United States which is the Whore of Babylon): "And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth)." The Whore of Babylon, of course, is the country that fought Iraq twice (once by the Dragon, and once by the Beast, his son). The Whore of Babylon is the country that was known for excessive wealth (especially pearl necklaces like the simple pearl necklace that Barbara Bush used to brag about). The Whore of Babylon was known for sexual misconduct, like the sex scandal of Bill Clinton and Monica, or the even worse sex scandal of President George H. W. Bush and Jennifer Fitzgerald.

Upon first reading, the meaning of Revelation is obscure, but further reading explains what was meant in earlier passages, so that, eventually, the meaning of Revelation becomes crystal clear.

When God sent modern revelations to modern psychics, he picked the best psychics in the world. Some had been working with the Central Intelligence Agency to locate Soviet submarines. Some were connected to the Association of Research and Enlightenment (Edgar Cayce started this organization of psychics). Many of God's psychics got together on the internet, in forums, and many knew of each other's screen names (psychically) before they met on the internet (so they knew each other's screen names before they met). They also traveled to each other's homes by astral projection and had nice visits. They also played psychic games with each other (holding up fingers and asking the other to count their fingers, though they could not see them and they were thousands of miles away).

The modern psychics of God warned not to attack Iraq, but no one listened to them. They were the last chance of God to save humanity from the end times that we currently are in. God tried....humans thought they were smarter than God.

The trouble is that if it's open to interpretation, then one person might say, "It means this!" and the other person will say, "It means that!" And they can't agree. Which one of them is right? They are both convinced they are right and the other person is wrong. And that's if one of them is actually correct in the first place. They could BOTH be wrong.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Not sure what you mean here

In any case, if there was an exodus out of Egypt, there's no way it wouldn't leave behind physical evidence. But that's outside the scope of this thread. If you'd like to start a new thread to discuss the historicity of the exodus, I'll be happen to participate.

Also, there's no such thing as a philosopher's stone. Science has not shown that it's easy. Science doesn't even say it's real.

You cant find evidence for something that you have read or heard of - if you cant understand the words.
Never will.

Same with prophecies. They are witnessed in a present moment. Not in the past or future.

Can you please show me a few prophecies that sound absolutely impossible. Some real crazy sounding stuff?
Then I will try to have a look at them to see if I can show you how they are possible and can be tested/witnessed by anyone and verified.

That is science.

The philosophers stone is real. I could show it to you if you want to see how it works.
The philosophers stone is also evidence of the exodus out of Egypt.
It fulfills prophecies.

Would you like to see the sword that's pulled from the philosophers stone?
It can turn other peoples swords into dust.

 

[Deeje]

So you claim, but it's just a claim which you can't support.

But that’s just the point.....I don’t have to...and neither does God.

You need faith to believe in God. Evidence for his existence is all around you, but you give credit to other forces. That is your prerogative.

If you haven’t got the qualifications, you don’t get the job.....it’s really that simple.