devil worshipping a sign of mental illness?

[Erebus]

Fair enough, and you are right.

I understand there are things as people we dont understand, I find it primitive thinking to associate religion, deity's and myths for what we do not know.

That's fair enough. You might consider it hallucination or a vivid imagination instead of "The Devil" (Hell, I'm of the same mind half the time). It all comes down to personal perception

 

[outhouse]

Problem with your statement is, for many they are not.

"Satan" and so on are just "symbols" for a large chunk of LHP-followers. They don't follow the Bible, be it Tanakh or New Testament.

Saying it's the foundation for their beliefs is like saying they're the basis of your beliefs simply because you're Western: not correct, and looks a bit silly.

I hear in these post some denial of sort, I notice a pattern of disassociation.

they use the word satan ect ect which for the most part is a ancient hebrew creation along with other mythical charactors, yet deny its origins or symbols.

 

[outhouse]

That's fair enough. You might consider it hallucination or a vivid imagination instead of "The Devil" (Hell, I'm of the same mind half the time). It all comes down to personal perception

thanks for your patients with my ignorance to the topic.

 

[outhouse]

I would say more is taken from Old Testament/Tanakh versions than from New Testament versions, but, yes, of course! Otherwise it wouldn't be Satanism, it would be Ba'alism, or Setianism(yeah, I know there are already religious organizations out there for these).

same for you Jack

Im trying to grasp some of it, lots of stereotyping I need to get around to be fair

 

[Jacksnyte]

same for you Jack

Im trying to grasp some of it, lots of stereotyping I need to get around to be fair

Yeah, those stereotypes are deeply engrained in western culture!

 

[Breathe]

they use the word satan ect ect which for the most part is a ancient hebrew creation along with other mythical charactors, yet deny its origins or symbols.

I can see where you are coming from, but I disagree: LHPers don't deny the origins of "Satan", they just don't see a need to believe in the Bible. If anything, it is the symbol he stands for in the LHP-mind that makes it Satanism: knowledge and independence. Where many see the conception of God in the Bible as being a celestial dictator dumbing down people, Satan represents freedom from ignorance via knowledge, and freedom to choose and not be "under the thumb" of the Biblical God.

That doesn't mean they have to take it literally, they don't have to believe in God, the Bible, fall of man, or even Satan to be a Satanist. Unless you're a theistic Satanist, when it gets a little harder I guess? I don't know much about theistic Satanism though. Not as much as I would like to.

 

[Jacksnyte]

I can see where you are coming from, but I disagree: LHPers don't deny the origins of "Satan", they just don't see a need to believe in the Bible. If anything, it is the symbol he stands for in the LHP-mind that makes it Satanism: knowledge and independence. Where many see the conception of God in the Bible as being a celestial dictator dumbing down people, Satan represents freedom from ignorance via knowledge, and freedom to choose and not be "under the thumb" of the Biblical God.

That doesn't mean they have to take it literally, they don't have to believe in God, the Bible, fall of man, or even Satan to be a Satanist. Unless you're a theistic Satanist, when it gets a little harder I guess? I don't know much about theistic Satanism though. Not as much as I would like to.

If you'd like to know more about Theistic Satanism, you can check this site out:

Theistic Satanism: Diane Vera on today's new kinds of Satanists

 

[outhouse]

they just don't see a need to believe in the Bible.

I cant fault then there.

I don't know much about theistic Satanism though. Not as much as I would like to.

I know very little but I do know LHP is very diverse and probably the problem why putting any kind of a label on them doesnt work. This doesnt make them immune from a label's though.

it is the symbol he stands for in the LHP-mind that makes it Satanism: knowledge and independence

correct, my only point is the symbol he stands for mostly originates though abrahamic origins

 

[Breathe]

If you'd like to know more about Theistic Satanism, you can check this site out:

Theistic Satanism: Diane Vera on today's new kinds of Satanists

Thank you! Reading now.

 

[LuisDantas]

Outhouse to me as a dharmic, LHP has more value as a religious path then Christianity, because it can lead one to liberation, albiet by what can be a very destructive path. Christianity on the other hand very seldom leads one to liberation, maybe a few we call Christian Mystics, because Christianity teaches it's adherents to look at what is illusion as being true.

That is arguable at best, and in any case it only really makes any sense at the level of specific stances (as is only fair).

 

[jonnychan]

Worshiping anything unknown is a sign of mental illness.

 

[Caladan]

I have to admit Caladan, I'm having a little difficulty following your argument. It seems to me that your main complaint is that Devil Worshippers take a Hebrew figure out of context and/or recreate him entirely. My first problem with this is that the Hebrew scriptures aren't actually our scriptures. We have no reason to follow them or revere them as sacred.

Exactly. you practically spelled out the problem.
you take as you please from the sacred scriptures, relics and doctrines of other men and do with them as you please.

Like any other concept, we like to take parts that appeal to us and ignore the parts that are irrelevant. In the Case of Hebrew scripture, the vast majority of it is irrelevant to Western Devil Worshippers. Our interest lies largely in the impact Christianity has had on our culture and how best to reaffirm our identity. Jewish culture, religion and ethics are of little interest (I don't mean to offend with that, I'm just trying to be honest).

Again. you spelled out the problem. you remain in complete ignorance of the qualities, literary, historical, educational, judicial and otherwise of the original passages, verses and text itself. and idolize a pop star version of the sacred text of other people.

The second point is that the vast majority of Satanists/Devil worshippers will tell you that "Satan" is simply a convenient name. It has shock factor and drama in the western world that is lacking in other names.

I think you really only want to believe that. no one is really shocked by such a lack of an adequate comprehension of the most and very basic fundamentals of religion.

Furthermore, whether its good or bad; ideas, words and religions change. The name Satan doesn't refer to an angel of God in the West any more than the word "gay" means somebody jovial. Preserving tradition is fair enough, but given time all traditions die and all nations crumble. Not many people now would go the religious route of our ancestors and revere the elements and the sun in a crude, tribal manner. Instead, if a person chooses to revere nature, they'll go with a more refined form which might not resemble the original whatsoever, but that's just the way it is. I myself wouldn't call it parasitical any more than creating a gun to replace an arrow is parasitical, it's simply the evolution of a concept.

Many of us still can and do that on regular basis. as we have for the past thousands of years. it is life as we know it. and it is a shame that North Americans are taking the hard labour of our scribes, priests of antiquity, or even monarchs and make a commercial mishmash out of them. a da Vinci code, modern 'satanism', a 'LHP', and other dogmas that belong in the kindergarten school of religious education.
It seems that to you. what we consider commemorating, sacred, and historical texts and testament for the historicity, achievements, literary abilities and other major establishments of our nations is nothing but a trend. almost as if you go shopping for a new jacket.

 

[Caladan]

The vast majority of Satanists view the figure of Satan as a Promethean ideal whether or not thay revere him as an actual entity or not. A goal to which one may aspire. To fully understand the mindset, one needs to first step outside of the binary model of the traditional Judeo-christian paradigm.

To fully understand the extent of the ignorance of 'satanists', 'LHP' and other undesirable ways to never outgrow the exciting teen age years. one first needs to understand that the term Judeo-Christian itself only holds water in the eyes of Christians.
To Jews. there is Judaism. and abomination, namely what Christians are doing when they idolize one of our men and crown him as god.

 

[linwood]

what part of atheist dont you understand I dont buy any of it R or L

I think I`ve got a handle on the definition of atheist.

does this mean im a strong atheist because I dont buy any religion and think all gods arer created by man????

Nope, it just means you`re an atheist.
However being an atheist doesn`t require than you must disrespect or disregard imagination or myth.
The Biblical stories we`re basing this discussion on offer insights into the mind of another age.
They allow us to see and understand the morality of an ancient people that we might never have had an understanding of without the stories, texts, and myths.
Without that imagination we would be much poorer in our understanding of ourselves.

 

[outhouse]

However being an atheist doesn`t require than you must disrespect or disregard imagination or myth.

I dont have a problem with myths when they are used properly.

most of my grip is the way christians use said material with a literal interpretation.

Or any other group that uses a literal interpretation. I understand positive aspects of religions despite my disbelief.

 

[blackout]

The second point is that the vast majority of Satanists/Devil worshippers will tell you that "Satan" is simply a convenient name. It has shock factor and drama in the western world that is lacking in other names. I've explained before that I personally don't consider it a particularly useful name beyond drama, but that's just my take on it. I'll still use the name if I want to for whatever reason.

This is true. And it is caused by the widespread superstition of western christianity.
To them, Satan and his minions are something to be .... feared. Stayed away from. Conquered. Defeated. Bound to Hell! The ULTIMATE enemy.
Christians will say that "with jesus" they have no need to be afraid, yet THEY alone are the ones who think this horrendous evil entity is stalking them and everyone, day and night, in an attempt to literally "steal" kill and torture them, enslave them, desecrating and profaning their 'god', trying to grab them and drag them down to an eternity of misery and suffering. Waiting around every dark corner, in every 'supposed' sin, to laugh his evil laugh and show his terrifying countenance, as he attempts to seduce and mock their (proported) holyness. This may not be the Hebrew Satan, but this IS the Christian Satan. And to them he is VERY and completely real. Literal. So completely different characters share the same name. Big deal. Many of us share the same name. It does not make us the same person/persona/character/being. The hebrew and christian satan's are NOT the same character. Obviously. Different mythologies completely.
So whatever. The idea of the conjuration.... the invitiation... invocation... of the direct presence of 'this' Christian Satan in christian society
instills fear in the hearts of "the faithful". (to the point of drawing them "to knees" or 'swords'-- or tears and fear and trembling....)
Satanists for the most part use the very real fear, of an (unpopular) popular ficional character for the shock value it causes in others.
yes, it's kind of immature, and kind of obnoxious, but it's reactionary
to something that is ALREADY deeply intrenched in THEIR OWN CULTURE.
The one THEY KNOW, and are born into.
The one they are raised, and grow up in, and with.
You really cannot fault people for reacting to what is right there all around them.
Not everyone here reacts well to christianity.
So this so called "satanism" is just one of those many reactions.
re-action.
One of the most effective ways of LAYING LOW taboos inside your own Self,
is to make them your own. Do exactly what you're not supposed to do.
Then they tend to fall to the ground like rag dolls.
(while at the same time, threatening-or at least disturbing,
the mindset of the masses around you)
eh.

We're all just living life, trying to make a way
in and through (and out of) whatever social conditions/conditionings
we happen to be born into.

Everything is sacred.
Nothing is sacred.
Nothing is sacred.
Everything is sacred.

All God's and Devils are not created equal.
or the same.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

It could also be a sign of rebellious youth as they take up some belief system that is as far as they can possibly take it to be the opposite to what their parents believe and often expressed as their intense attraction to death metal music. That is not mental illness that has been going on for generation to generation in one form or another.

 

[blackout]

Not like rebellion is some kind of "dirty word" either.

Unless your way is the one being rebelled against I suppose. ?

 

[outhouse]

Satanists for the most part use the very real fear, of an (unpopular) popular ficional character for the shock value it causes in others.

yes, it's kind of immature, and kind of obnoxious, but it's reactionary

this only begs to ask if mental illness is tied to satan worship

 

[Jacksnyte]

this only begs to ask if mental illness is tied to satan worship

I personally don't go for "shock value". That, again, would more likely be the teen dabbler type of Satanist. I tend to keep it to myself in my day-to-day life.