Did Adam and Eve and animals have genitals before the fall?

[RabbiO]

After God made Eve, Adam asked what this means for him? God said "Adam, go and multiply". Adam returned hour later and asked "What's a headache?".

I don’t think folks realize that, improper to do so as it might be, you’re simply repeating the conversation you overheard as you were walking by.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don’t think folks realize that, improper to do so as it might be, you’re simply repeating the conversation you overheard as you were walking by.

I believe you may have missed the sarcasm of the post. It was not a serious post.

 

[metis]

I believe you may have missed the sarcasm of the post. It was not a serious post.

No, that's just @RabbiO having some fun with this as we used to do this kinda stuff a lot. He's poking fun of my age-- er, I mean my maturity.

 

[shunyadragon]

No, that's just @RabbiO having some fun with this as we used to do this kinda stuff a lot. He's poking fun of my age-- er, I mean my maturity.

Culture barrier?? Odd post if that was the intention.

 

[metis]

Culture barrier?? Odd post if that was the intention.

No culture barrier-- just joking around.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think the original earth was designed to have just expanded its circumference to accommodate population growth. Eventually it would have been the largest planet in the solar system, larger than Jupiter even, had Adam not sinned. But the auto-grow feature never got tested, so we'll never know for sure.

Where did that come from?

I would live to read that on assumption there is a lost text around!

 

[RabbiO]

Culture barrier?? Odd post if that was the intention.

I‘ve known @metis for close to 20 years. I have deep respect and high regard for him. I even like him a whole lot. At some point, a moment now lost in time, we stumbled into the same kind of mock feud engaged in by Jack Benny and Fred Allen. If you don’t understand the reference you can look it up. People seemed to appreciate the injection of a bit of levity into conversations.

In all the years we’ve known each other, even when we’ve not been totally in accord, there’s never been a cross word, a word said in anger, a derogatory remark. That’s something that will not change.

 

[Kfox]

After Adam and Eve’s creation they did not know the significance of their genitals.

So why do you suppose God decided to give them genitals in the beginning?

 

[Trailblazer]

So why do you suppose God decided to give them genitals in the beginning?

Isn't there something in the Bible about being fruitful and multiplying?

 

[Kfox]

Isn't there something in the Bible about being fruitful and multiplying?

I'm talking about before they sinned.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So why do you suppose God decided to give them genitals in the beginning?

God is all knowing. He wanted humans who would always praise him, worship him, and go by his laws; and would punish those who did not. It was the game-plan. He was not making an angel when he made Adam. So after Adam, he needed people to do that. That is why he gave genitals to humans. But he did not know that quite many would not believe in heaven and hell and will not be afraid to call his bluff.
God intended to throw them out of Eden. The sinning episode was a ruse.

I think the original earth was designed to have just expanded its circumference to accommodate population growth. Eventually it would have been the largest planet in the solar system, larger than Jupiter even, had Adam not sinned. But the auto-grow feature never got tested, so we'll never know for sure.

When did anything created by God work properly?

 

[wellwisher]

Before Sin, there was no death. If Adam and Eve and the animals had genitals, it would only a matter of time before reproduction would cause Earth to became over populated had nobody sinned. Am I missing something here?

If you look at the earth, humans are the only species on earth that over populates the earth to the point of upsetting the natural balance, even though all the animals have genitals. Genitals is not the operative variable.

What human have, that animals do not have, is will and choice apart from natural instinct. The rest of the animals only have natural instinct. This allows them to find their sweet spot and natural ecosystem ratio. Humans, via will and choice, do not have the same innate limitation of natural limits; at a conscious level. Human can choose to exceed natural limits, based on choices that are beyond natural instinct; man made rules of good and evil. In the case of over population, the human learned pleasure of sex is more important than over population; pleasure is good and lack of pleasure is evil. Animals do not think that way. Their pleasure centers tend to animate seasonally and based on food supply. To an animal, it is not having sex to help forget about the bad things. They have a more reasonable metric for maintaining species balance.

This wld card, that separates humans from animals can be modeled as a function of humans having two centers of consciousness; inner self and ego, with the ego center connected to the symbolism of Adam and Eve. All animals have is an inner self. This natural center of animal consciousness is in touch with natural instinct via the long road of evolution and DNA. This natural selection connection allows animals to reproduce, but in ways that integrate them with nature, at the proper natural ratios, that allow stable natural ecosystems. These behavior were naturally selected over eons; optimized. The ego depends on learn human knowledge of good and evil for proper human social behavior.

In modern lingo, consciousness is more like software, while the output expressions of the body is like hardware; program and machine. If we were watching a new machine perform, we cannot easily tell all the details of the software, by just the output. One could write another program that can do very similar things, but it may not match the original program. Different venders offer similar cell phones, but the operating systems can be very different.

The original machine program, may be the product of many years of development and on the job modification, with added features and bug updates. The new reversed engineered may do the same basics, but it is still in the early development stage; natural selection versus ego centric reverse engineering. The inner self is closer to prefect, since it have been developed over eons through natural selection; God given. The ego was reverse engineered; will and choice, with parameters that reflected the will and choice of ego-centric developers, who were trying to copy and improve the original with do-loops of good and evil. We ended up with two operating systems; inner self and ego, that do not mess, but often tend to conflict when run together.

As a modern example of the Adam and Eve cross roads, of the two trees or the two operating systems; natural or life, and manmade; knowledge of good and evil do-loops and do-not-loops, nearly all humans are born with a biological sex; male or female. This can be inferred by physical analysis of the DNA. This body output is connected to the inner self operating system. Fake news and Liberal theology now say that biological sex is evil and transgender is the new good; use this do-loop via will and choice; copy behavior.

The females or Eve, tends to accept this new fad, first; Liberal mothers. They coax the males; sons and husbands, to accept this ego-centric knowledge of good and evil. This Liberal theology is trying to reverse engineer an aspect of child development; add unnatural chemicals. Death comes into the world. Long data says, even after willfully transitioning, there is still a problem with death by suicide. What had benefited the ego, in the short term; secondary program for the superego of Liberal Culture, causes a drift away from natural instinct and the inner self. This causes a lingering internal division. The machine is fighting against itself; isometric exhaustion.

If we go back to will and choice, and this internal division, between the natural and the manmade center; instinct versus ego-centric knowledge of good and evil, the internal division causes over an ego overcompensation, leading to overpopulation; fanaticism overcompensates for doubt. Someone in harmony with nature is more laid back unit nature calls in cycles. I have a summer cycle. Over compensation cannot sit still; bugs in the machine.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm talking about before they sinned.

 

[Kfox]

God is all knowing. He wanted humans who would always praise him, worship him, and go by his laws; and would punish those who did not. It was the game-plan. He was not making an angel when he made Adam. So after Adam, he needed people to do that. That is why he gave genitals to humans. But he did not know that quite many would not believe in heaven and hell and will not be afraid to call his bluff.
God intended to throw them out of Eden. The sinning episode was a ruse.

So is it your view that even though they didn't have children till after they sinned, had they remained sinless long enough eventually they would have had children?

 

[Aupmanyav]

So is it your view that even though they didn't have children till after they sinned, had they remained sinless long enough eventually they would have had children?

They ate from the tree of knowledge, knew the difference between good and bad. Is that a sin?

 

[wellwisher]

I still believe the story of Adam and Eve and Genesis is about the evolution of the human primary center of consciousness; inner self and paradise, and the human secondary center of consciousness; human ego. The two operating systems, for these two conscious centers of the human brain are symbolized by the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The tree of life symbolism is connected natural instinct and evolution. If we science plotted the evolution of life on earth, like a tree, it starts like a seed that spouts; first replicators. It than starts to grow, differentate, and branch, with humans at the pinnacle of this tree; advancements, based on all the genetic precedent below it all the way to root.

The tree of knowledge is similar, but it is less about biology and natural instinct; product of the earth. It is more a product of the human mind and consciounsess. Knowledge of good and evil is about differential thinking where humans learn to differentiate the natural and social environments; good and evil, from which the skill of reason will appear; cause and effect. If you do evil; cause, you get a snack down; effect. This awakens consciousness and adds new branches.

The rise of permanent civilization, according to science, happens within the Genesis time scale. There is science data of earlier civilizations, before the first permanent, but these did not persist; these seeds aborted. The reason for the earlier wilting fo the seeds, was the primary operating system of the nature and the inner self, was still in control and it restored nature, like the jungle taking over an extinct city; these were not selected for various reasons.

The symbolism of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the final loss of paradise; permanent loss, is when the seed of civilizations finally persist; root and grow. This was a product of the ego, with the inner self becoming less conscious, but still there, since it was connected to our DNA; ancestral history of natural life. The tree of life was removed and sealed, from the ego, less the ego mess up the natural operating system. Today, it takes a lot of work to get past the dangerous barriers into the inner self operating system.

The world's religions then and now, attempt to find a balance between the ego and the inner self; tree of life partially restored. While the root of the ego; tree of knowledge of good and evil, is what separates the ego from the inner self. How do you give up law; root of separation, if it is what anchors the ego? This is needed to connect to the inner self.

One modern technique is to take a cutting from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and graph it onto the tree of life. The ego first becomes free floating; cutting. It looses it root. It then needs to attach so the bark of the two tree touch, and then wrapped, waiting until the two merge. The ego becomes an extension of life or the inner self. This way we can leave the root of the tree of knowledge; Satan, behind, but retain a connection to the past. We become part of the older natural root of life, while retaining some of our ego self identity and tradition.

If you think about an animal, they are not concerned or bothered about explaining nature and/or getting more creature comforts for security and presitge. This is a human need. These needs are connected to something extra that human have, that animal do not have or need; the ego. Genesis is connected to the human ego's formation, its eventualy separation, and then its search for the meanings of life; searching for the missing undiscovered inner self. What humans desire is a safe determinstic instinctive view for life that makes you feel connected and relaxed. Ego luxury does not quite achieve perpetual bliss.

 

[metis]

I‘ve known @metis for close to 20 years. I have deep respect and high regard for him. I even like him a whole lot. At some point, a moment now lost in time, we stumbled into the same kind of mock feud engaged in by Jack Benny and Fred Allen. If you don’t understand the reference you can look it up. People seemed to appreciate the injection of a bit of levity into conversations.

In all the years we’ve known each other, even when we’ve not been totally in accord, there’s never been a cross word, a word said in anger, a derogatory remark. That’s something that will not change.

I feel the same exact same way, and you said it so eloquently. Even when you were wrong, which was most of the time , we still always got along, and when I call you "my rabbi", that's not hyperbole.

Take care, my rabbi & friend.

 

[jimb]

They ate from the tree of knowledge, knew the difference between good and bad. Is that a sin?

It is a deliberate violation of God's instructions. (It is the opposite of faith.) So yes, that is a sin.

 

[jimb]

God is all knowing. He wanted humans who would always praise him, worship him, and go by his laws; and would punish those who did not. It was the game-plan. He was not making an angel when he made Adam. So after Adam, he needed people to do that. That is why he gave genitals to humans. But he did not know that quite many would not believe in heaven and hell and will not be afraid to call his bluff.
God intended to throw them out of Eden. The sinning episode was a ruse.

When did anything created by God work properly?

God intended to throw them out of Eden? He intentionally deceived them by giving them false instructions? Is that really how you think of God?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Is that really how you think of God?

Gods are absent in my belief. I am a Hindu and a strong atheist. I follow non-duality (Advaita).