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Did Jesus actually exist as a historical figure?

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
It's not there so, rather than more silly evasions why not simply tell us to what specific [Price] theory are you referring?
Here it is Jay.

How a Fictional Jesus Gave Rise to Christianity




It is a link to an online article by Robert Price expounding his idea that Jesus is not only "mythical", but fictional.

I haven't read it yet so I can't comment further.

(btw it was actually from post 120, not 123)
 

steeltoes

Junior member
There's way more money in proving that Jesus does exist than does not. It's all a matter of knowing which side your bread is buttered on.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
It looks like another Jesus thread is coming to an end, it was a slice, we'll see you guys next time someone starts up another, in the meantime, to all you historical Jesus fans out there, keep the faith.
Ya know, there are other topics to discuss. Ya don't just have to wait around for another one of these. :)
 

Nails

Member
I honestly can't believe people are still asking this question. Of course he lived and died. We can debate over the empty tomb and his resurrection, but he lived. The bible, and specifically the four gospels, as historical documents, are the most reliable ancient documents in existence in terms of the numbers of original manuscripts and copies which exist, and scholarly consensus (for what that's worth).
 

Im42nut2

Member
Was there a man named Jesus from the Christian bible real? I dunno. Things in our history books are found to be wrong. How can we trust anyone's written word? I think only a provable dna sample would do it.
 

Mooba

New Member
Did Adam exist as an actual historical figure? Has it been necessary for people to believe in or have faith in the historical Adam, or preach Adam, in order to sin or be born into sin?

If Jesus existed as an historical figure is it necessary for people to hear about and have faith in the historical Jesus in order to be "saved"?

Are people born with a inner nature that naturally inclines to fornication, greed, hate, anger, covetousness, deceit, arrogance, envy, strife, self righteousness etc.?

Let a young child be ruled by what comes natural to it with no discipline, and it will naturally kick, bite, scream and basically turn into a animal naturally.

Religion and philosophy and moral teachings are an attempt to tame the animal within without changing the nature within.

Whether someone believes in the historical Adam does not give or remove their natural animal nature from them.

Millions down through the centuries have had a belief in the historical existence of Jesus, and yet have remained unchanged in their inner nature, and used religion as a cloak to hide who they really are.

Yes, some happened to believe in the historical Jesus, and also opened themselves to be changed by the power of the Christ so that their natural inner nature is overcome and changed by the initial spark of divine nature...and then it becomes a matter of learning (often through trial and error) how to follow the instincts of that divine nature day by day overcoming the animal nature.

BUT have there not been those down through the ages that have also been so changed by the Christ who have never even heard of any historical Jesus?

But I hear Christian's say Jesus must be preached to all the world...including to Muslims who must believe in the historical Jesus before they can be saved?

But has not the Christ already been preached and spoken to everyone born into the world giving them many opportunities to listen to the small whispers and follow the spark of the divine nature placed within them, and through that divine nature, as it is allowed to gain dominance, it will turn them from a soul planted into the dirt of material reality into a son or daughter of god blossoming into spiritual reality having to go no more out of the spiritual light and presence of God?

And, this spark of divine nature...what is that?

It is the seed of the spiritual kingdom.

It is covered by the hard shell of the instinctive animal nature....covered with sin and karma so to speak.

Was this divine nature always there even before Jesus came historically if he came historically at all?

If Jesus the Christ existed as an historical figure, whose consciousness came from spiritual reality and inhabited a tangible physical body for people to see and perceive from the viewpoint their limited human condition that did not have eyes to see or ears to hear spiritually, how can the historical Jesus save them from their sins?

How can a belief in the historical Jesus help at all in awakening the seed of the divine nature within people?

Many have eyes but do not see, and have ears and do not hear, and many confess Jesus is the son of God like the devils did whom he cast out. And yet it is not a belief that saves.

Only the divine nature within can believe in, follow and obey the voice of the Christ.

Whether the seed of divine nature was in the human race from the beginning is not the issue.

It makes sense that a historical Jesus, whose consciousness came from spiritual reality beyond the physical, etheric, astral, mental and causal planes of creation, would plant the divine seed within so that all born thereafter will be born with the divine spark just like a historical Adam planted the sin nature so that all born after were born with the sin nature.

So now we have a sin nature and a divine nature, and the divine nature is like a small seed, or weak child, that must overcome the natural sin nature which has become so normal to us.

If Jesus existed historically the purpose of his physical existence was for God to make a way that the eternal Christ can be grasped by limited human minds.

But the drawback through the ages has been that many turned Jesus into a religion and used their brain to come up with total misunderstandings of spiritual truth.

The historical Jesus took upon himself the race sin/karma so that when removed those who were/are receptive saw/see the light, heard/hear the call, heard/hear the voice of the divine nature, follow, obey and are changed.

This continues to this day whether people believe or or even heard of the historical Jesus or not...everyone of every religion and every agnostic and every atheists etc., hears the call over and over sometimes louder sometimes barely perceived...but all have an opportunity to be changed into divine nature. He/she that has hears to hear let them hear....If you read the teachings of the Christ with the spiritual ears and spiritual understanding and spiritual eyesight you will be enlightened as you yield to the divine presence and obey.
 
Anyone from any religion is welcome to join in on the discussion, but I have a few rules that everyone must follow. If you do not want to adhere to these rules, please be respectful and refrain from commenting. Thanks so much for your input and respect to the nature of this discussion:

1. Do not refer to one part of the Bible as proof for any validity of any other part of the Bible. We are trying to be objective here.

2. Do not make claims stating that "Biblical Scholars agree ..." This is nothing but a cop-out, and I would like to discuss the actual evidence that might lead those Scholars to agree in the first place.

3. No claims without sufficient evidence to back them up. You cannot just say things like "everyone knows".

4. Finally, there is absolutely NO CLAIMING THAT ANY OPINION SHARED MAKES THE HOLDER OF THAT PERSON ANY LESS OF A DECENT PERSON. Let's be adults and keep this one clean.

If you don't like the rules, please avoid the thread. Thanks so much. I look forward to the discussion.
I have to say no...unless you want to count the story as a figure, even though the story it self has been corrupted many times over through out history
 
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