Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

[Audie]

Yes, the Bible makes claims and the evidence has been provided...

Have you no idea of what a worthless argument
that is? Say something, that gives a run for
our money!

Too lazy to even ID the claims that have
"evidence"!

 

[Audie]

Actually, I'm not trying to convince anyone. I don't think I can do that. According to the scriptures that is the work of the Holy Spirit. I just answer questions when I feel motivated to or respond to outright attacks or mockery of the scriptures.

Then why the heck are you even here? You got no
motivation and no ammunition!

 

[Jos]

Perhaps He knew that the mortal experience would be worthwhile and that there would be something to be gained by people who could learn to channel their temptations in an acceptable way. Why bother creating us at all if He didn't want to allow us the option to make choices?

I knew you might say that... that God had to give us a choice between following our bodily desires or following a spiritual life. Funny though, that He didn't think it worthwhile to give angels the same choice. I guess He favours angels over humans.

 

[Audie]

I don't know how any designer with any amount of kindness or decency can create humans with a digestive function that entails that they have to poop.

Everything has to. It is hard wired into the nature of reality.
Enjoy it while you can!

 

[Spartan]

Okay, but lacking good reason to believe the Bible is factual, the evidence is unacceptable. Unless, that is, one can show the Bible is presenting a fact.

AND

To whirlingmerc's topic question: "Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?"
You answered: "The answer depends entirely on ones indoctrination, or lack thereof."

FYI, the reality of an incident exists independently of anyone's perception of it.
.

Here's 12 historical facts most scholars believe:

1. Jesus died by crucifixion.
2. He was buried.
3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.
4. The tomb was empty (the most contested).
5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus (the most important proof).
6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.
7. The resurrection was the central message.
8. They preached the message of Jesus’ resurrection in Jerusalem.
9. The Church was born and grew.
10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.
11. James was converted to the faith when he saw the resurrected Jesus (James was a family skeptic).
12. Paul was converted to the faith (Paul was an outsider skeptic).

12 Historical Facts - Gary Habermas

 

[Audie]

Please give me an example of one single solitary ritual Moroni gave Joseph Smith. Please don't lose any sleep, though, in coming up with an example, because you won't find one. If you really wanted accurate information concerning the ties between Mormonism and Freemasonry, you'd have taken the time to read my article. Since you're not willing to do that, I can only assume that you'd rather remain misinformed.

Of course. Knowledge spoils so many lovely superstitions and
prejudices and who wants to give up their precious?

 

[Jos]

Because if we are to live in the eternal realm forever and love God forever each person must be given a choice, each person must have the opportunity to freely decide whether they want to love God and want to fully trust His wisdom and goodness. The heavenly eternal realm would become just as damaged as this fallen earth if anyone entered in who did not make this choice. This time here on earth, in the flesh, is the time for this test and choice.

Just like I told the other woman, I knew I would probably get this response but as I told her, God is inconsistent since He gives this choice to humans and not angels ie. the choice between a material life or a spiritual life and also even among humans not all of them have to go through this test since babies who died will supposedly get into heaven without having to go through this test. BTW, you still haven't responded to my questions in the "Evil" thread but at the same time I realize that you don't have to respond.

 

[Audie]

Here's 12 historical facts most scholars believe:

1. Jesus died by crucifixion.
2. He was buried.
3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.
4. The tomb was empty (the most contested).
5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus (the most important proof).
6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.
7. The resurrection was the central message.
8. They preached the message of Jesus’ resurrection in Jerusalem.
9. The Church was born and grew.
10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.
11. James was converted to the faith when he saw the resurrected Jesus (James was a family skeptic).
12. Paul was converted to the faith (Paul was an outsider skeptic).

12 Historical Facts - Gary Habermas

So?

 

[Spartan]

Flavius Josephus and Cornelius Tacitus."For the most which this writings have been proved to be fake by historians not proven true.

That's not quite true. A quote of Josephus was allegedly embellished after it was given. But the main portion of the quote - apart from, "...he was the Christ..." - is believed to be valid. Here's additional extra-biblical quotations concerning Jesus. It includes an explanation concerning Josephus' 'Testimonium Flavium'.

Extra-Biblical Evidence for the Historical Jesus.

 

[Spartan]

So?

So, go ahead and ignore it and see how deep your understanding of the issue is.

 

[Jos]

Everything has to. It is hard wired into the nature of reality.
Enjoy it while you can!

I get that everything has to if nature without the guidance of a loving, intelligent creator made things this way but if a loving, intelligent, all-powerful created us like this when He could have done otherwise then I fail to see how He could be called loving or intelligent. Even I have thought of more efficient ways for getting rid of waste that don't entail pooping.

 

[Audie]

So, go ahead and ignore it and see how deep your understanding of the issue is.

You somehow think those things are not well
known, or that added up they do anything to
support the existence of any god?

Do 12 points for the history of some
more relgions ! Make them true and
wonderful too.

Ignorant is thinking anyone is impressed
by news of the obvious. Or the well known
and pointless. You got all of those in.

 

[InChrist]

Have you no idea of what a worthless argument
that is? Say something, that gives a run for
our money!

Too lazy to even ID the claims that have
"evidence"!

I thought is was obvious. If you watched the video the ultimate evidence for the scriptures was/ is the resurrection and that is the topic of this thread.

 

[Skwim]

Here's 12 historical facts most scholars believe:

If I may.

"Here are 12 historical assertions most Christian scholars believe"

1. Jesus died by crucifixion.
2. He was buried.
3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.
4. The tomb was empty (the most contested).
5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus (the most important proof).
6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.
7. The resurrection was the central message.
8. They preached the message of Jesus’ resurrection in Jerusalem.
9. The Church was born and grew.
10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.
11. James was converted to the faith when he saw the resurrected Jesus (James was a family skeptic).
12. Paul was converted to the faith (Paul was an outsider skeptic).

12 Historical Facts - Gary Habermas

To which I can only say, "So what?" Assertions, which is all they are, don't qualify as facts. A fact is something that is confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.* All of these, with perhaps the exception of #10, lack such confirmation.


* With a nod to Stephen Jay Gould

.

 

[InChrist]

I get that everything has to if nature without the guidance of a loving, intelligent creator made things this way but if a loving, intelligent, all-powerful created us like this when He could have done otherwise then I fail to see how He could be called loving or intelligent. Even I have thought of more efficient ways for getting rid of waste that don't entail pooping.

I always wonder how a finite person would think they could do things better or more intelligently than an all-powerful Being who created heaven and earth.

 

[Spartan]

If I may.

"Here are 12 historical assertions most Christian scholars believe"

​

To which I can only say, "So what?" Assertions, which is all they are, don't qualify as facts. A fact is something that is confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.* All of these, with perhaps the exception of #10, lack such confirmation.


* With a nod to Stephen Jay Gould

.

That's your opinion. I seriously doubt you have looked at or researched the supporting information for those 12 facts.

 

[Spartan]

You somehow think those things are not well
known, or that added up they do anything to
support the existence of any god?

Do 12 points for the history of some
more relgions ! Make them true and
wonderful too.

Ignorant is thinking anyone is impressed
by news of the obvious. Or the well known
and pointless. You got all of those in.

Exactly how much time have you spent seriously researching the resurrection? I've got over forty years of research and I can tell you it's solid as a rock.

 

[Audie]

I always wonder how a finite person would think they could do things better or more intelligently than an all-powerful Being who created heaven and earth.

Speaking of intelligent!

Educated people wonder how anyone can cling
to such a backward belief as that a god poofed
everything into place like it is.

If you cannot do the 21st cenury, try to catch up with
the 18th?

 

[Audie]

Exactly how much time have you spent seriously researching the resurrection? I've got over forty years of research and I can tell you it's solid as a rock.

Sorry for your loss of time.

But it could be worse-
I bet there are those who could say they studied
the BOM or Koran even longer!

Tell me, do you believe in Noahs ark, too?

 

[Jos]

I always wonder how a finite person would think they could do things better or more intelligently than an all-powerful Being who created heaven and earth.

Well first of all you didn't even address my response to your other post, which is this one:

Just like I told the other woman, I knew I would probably get this response but as I told her, God is inconsistent since He gives this choice to humans and not angels ie. the choice between a material life or a spiritual life and also even among humans not all them have to go through this test since babies who died will get supposedly get into heaven without having to go through this test. BTW, you still haven't responded to my questions in the "Evil" thread but at the same time I realize that you don't have to respond.

and second of all, if God is all-powerful then He should have been able to design the human body better especially the waste removal system, it's that simple. All-powerful means He had lots of options.