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Did Jesus really have to die for our sins?

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Nino0814

Nino0814
Metaphorically speaking one can say Jesus died because of sin in the world, and showed us the way out of sin by forgiving his persecutors.

In the same way, one can say MLKJ died because of the sin of racism, and showed us the way out of racism by loving those who hated him.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
sojourner said:
Ask the Jews. It certainly is possible.
Click to expand...

i'm getting mixed signals about human sacrifices...

BTW, for Paul, it's not the cross that's salvific -- it's the church that's salvific.
Paul doesn't mean what you think he means there. He's talking about X's humanity, not sacrifice.
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so how and why did god make jesus to be sin then?
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
jasonwill2 said:
No.. I don't get how you got that from me saying that god is in all of us...
Click to expand...

This thread is about Jesus dying for our sins.
As if A Deity would require a blood letting for atonement.

All through this thread the discussion sways back and forth.
The believers want to keep their rant....
The nonbelievers are just making conversation.

And though I point it out repeatedly....
No one wants to be held responsible for their own sins.
Lay it all on the shoulders of a Carpenter that died two thousand years ago.

No one seems willing to 'fess up'....
It is the teaching of that Prophet that removes sin.
His word...His parables...are the means to remove sin.

You can't remove sin by a scapegoat.
That practice failed.
Read the Old testament to see how Moses dealt with sin....
Really?....lay hands on the sinner...then a goat....take the animal to the wilderness....leave it there to die.

Yet people believed such things.
Why do you think birds were kept at the temple?
Why do you think the Carpenter set them free?... as He also overturned the tables of the money changers....

Sin is not something tangible....though it takes manifest when performed.

Sin is of mind and heart.

So what if you cleanse the outside of the cup....and wash not the inside.
(ritual bathing and baptism don't work)

And laying your faults own someone else...and then letting him die....
is scapegoating.

It doesn't work.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Like Moshe ?
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Some of the gospels do equate Jesus with Moses. I think it's John that quotes Jesus, "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up..."
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
how and why did god make jesus to be sin then?
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In order to reconcile humanity to God. God made Jesus to be sin simply by making him human.
not everyone has the same interests though
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You're reading the texts from a highly individualistic POV. But the texts reflect a much more communal attitude.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
PolyHedral said:
Why not?
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Here's your sign...I quote my thread....Your future in Heaven


For example....I've heard discussion that no matter what....we go to heaven.
THAT, I find hard to believe.

Picture yourself as Hitler....yes you can.
You make it through the gate and are escorted all around heaven.

Later that evening, you are invited to supper...with 'thirteen' others.
As you dip your bread in the bowl, a Carpenter is doing likewise.
You turn to use another bowl...and Judas is doing so as well.

(note the.... 'look in the eye'.... part)

Sounds like fun!....don't you think so!
(end quote)

Heaven is more to proximity than a place.
You chose you good company here in this life?
You have the option in the next?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Gjallarhorn said:
Brace yourself for yet another installment of Godwin's law.
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:spit:
well lookie here
Thief said:
Here's your sign...I quote my thread....Your future in Heaven


For example....I've heard discussion that no matter what....we go to heaven.
THAT, I find hard to believe.

Picture yourself as Hitler....yes you can.
You make it through the gate and are escorted all around heaven.
Click to expand...
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Thief said:
Here's your sign...I quote my thread....Your future in Heaven


For example....I've heard discussion that no matter what....we go to heaven.
THAT, I find hard to believe.

Picture yourself as Hitler....yes you can.
You make it through the gate and are escorted all around heaven.
Click to expand...

but if hitler repented
you'd be floating on the same cloud
 
1robin

1robin

Christian/Baptist
PolyHedral said:
Why not?
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Because God said so. Since that won't satasfy you then: An absolute perfect God will not dwell with imperfection eternally. In order to live with God eternally we must become perfect. We can either perfectlly obey God's law or be saved (born again) because of Christs sacrifice. No one has ever perfectly obeyed the law so that's out. Then that leaves salvation by grace. Christ perfectly obeyed God and so has a perfectly rightous record befor God. When we accept him as savior his rightous record is accredited to our account. When we die and are judged Christ's record is applied to our account and we are deemed perfect and able to exist with God. Since no one makes it on the law and only some will accept Christ then that means some are not qualified and must spend eternity seperated from God which is exactly what they chose. Any objections are usually emotional and insuffecient to prove salvation unfair or false.
 
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