Did Jesus really have to die for our sins?

[Thief]

So what kind of sacrifice,he was alive in his physical body ,he can eat
and have been touched as similar to any living human.

Where is the sacrifice then ?

On top of that....no one ever seems to ask...
Where IS that body now?

What's He doing?... floating around in orbit?
Or has He been been incognito for the past two thousand years?

Obviously, I believe in spiritual life after death.

 

[sojourner]

So what kind of sacrifice,he was alive in his physical body ,he can eat
and have been touched as similar to any living human.

Where is the sacrifice then ?

Have you ever been horse whipped and crucified? Until you have, you might want to reserve comment on that.

 

[Thief]

Have you ever been horse whipped and crucified? Until you have, you might want to reserve comment on that.

I've been beaten.
Crucified?...no....
Understand sacrifice?...yes I do....
And no He didn't.

His ministry ended as He expected it to.
So He was able to tell His follows what would soon come to pass.

Of course the authorities wanted Him dead.
At first opportunity....done.

He didn't stand ground to save you or anyone else.
He stood His ground to show you 'the way'.

So the words.....
'Take up your cross and follow Me.'

What was that you were saying about crucifixion?

 

[FearGod]

Have you ever been horse whipped and crucified? Until you have, you might want to reserve comment on that.

But Jesus who loved to save all sinners by his choice to sacrifice will not
cry on the cross

Matthew 27:46
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

 

[mohamedtounsi]

where is the proof of you claim ? why do you think that your belief is correct and not the Muslim or hindu or .....

 

[sojourner]

But Jesus who loved to save all sinners by his choice to sacrifice will not
cry on the cross

Matthew 27:46
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

He was quoting Psalm 22.

 

[sojourner]

I've been beaten.
Crucified?...no....
Understand sacrifice?...yes I do....
And no He didn't.

His ministry ended as He expected it to.
So He was able to tell His follows what would soon come to pass.

Of course the authorities wanted Him dead.
At first opportunity....done.

He didn't stand ground to save you or anyone else.
He stood His ground to show you 'the way'.

So the words.....
'Take up your cross and follow Me.'

What was that you were saying about crucifixion?

You're preaching to the choir. All I'm saying is that Jesus did suffer, because crucifixion is designed specifically for that purpose, and those who feel he didn't suffer have never been crucified.

 

[sojourner]

where is the proof of you claim ? why do you think that your belief is correct and not the Muslim or hindu or .....

Proof of what claim? Be specific.

 

[FearGod]

He was quoting Psalm 22.

and i am asking why he should cry for help from god and
i dont know still if jesus himself is god or just human,can you explain

 

[sojourner]

and i am asking why he should cry for help from god and
i dont know still if jesus himself is god or just human,can you explain

I imagine that, if you were being crucified, you'd call for help, too -- or at least quote some scripture for comfort.

Jesus is fully God. Jesus is fully human.

 

[jamesmorrow]

Jesus is fully God. Jesus is fully human.

too bad you are incapable of disputing the impossibility of this nonsensical claim. you just claim "its magic" ....by your logic anything goes because any illogical contradictory nonsense can be validated through the label of magic.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

That's why Jesus instructed us to pray: Forgive us our sins, as we forgive the sins of others.

Sure, that is if the one who was wronged was a Chrisitian (who followed the teachings of christ in that they forgave those who wronged them)

However let us say that the person who was wronged was NOT a christian, or someone who had not forgiven those who had wronged them. Then the 'sin' (of breaking the commandments or whatever) might be forgiven by god however the suffering that was inflicted is NOT forgiven - and should be punished.

 

[sojourner]

Sure, that is if the one who was wronged was a Chrisitian (who followed the teachings of christ in that they forgave those who wronged them)

However let us say that the person who was wronged was NOT a christian, or someone who had not forgiven those who had wronged them. Then the 'sin' (of breaking the commandments or whatever) might be forgiven by god however the suffering that was inflicted is NOT forgiven - and should be punished.

It's just not that picayune. It doesn't matter if the person is a Xtian, or a Revoltifarian, or an atheist, or a flying purple people eater. Forgiveness is forgiveness, and living a life focused in forgiveness is what is at issue.

 

[sojourner]

too bad you are incapable of disputing the impossibility of this nonsensical claim. you just claim "its magic" ....by your logic anything goes because any illogical contradictory nonsense can be validated through the label of magic.

It's ultimately a metaphor -- Sheesh! Any language about God is ultimately metaphor. The metaphor works for me. If it doesn't work for you, by all means, don't believe it! Please!

 

[InformedIgnorance]

It's just not that picayune. It doesn't matter if the person is a Xtian, or a Revoltifarian, or an atheist, or a flying purple people eater. Forgiveness is forgiveness, and living a life focused in forgiveness is what is at issue.

I meant in that those particular people (who follow such a doctrine of forgiving those people who have wronged them) are more likely to forgive wrong done to them. On the other hand, other people are less likely to have forgiven the suffering that was inflicted on them by others, therefore the people who inflicted that suffering are not forgiven and therefore 'love' (whether human or divine in origin) does not enter into it as some sort of panacea against the suffering one inflicts.

Side note: I have never come across the term picayune before, probably because it was 'coined' in America and is therefore not real engrish.

 

[FearGod]

I imagine that, if you were being crucified, you'd call for help, too -- or at least quote some scripture for comfort.

Jesus is fully God. Jesus is fully human.

That is if me,because i am weak as a human being,
but we are talking here about god,do you know who is god.
crying on the cross for help and quoting some of his scripture for comfort

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Have you ever been horse whipped and crucified? Until you have, you might want to reserve comment on that.

those tiny pinpricks are nothing to someone immune to death, and can live for all time.

No sacrifice.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

It's just not that picayune. It doesn't matter if the person is a Xtian, or a Revoltifarian, or an atheist, or a flying purple people eater. Forgiveness is forgiveness, and living a life focused in forgiveness is what is at issue.

the point is a Chrisitan making atonement to God for harm he did to a human, does NOT redress any such sin to teh hurt human.

It's like suing someone for pain and suffering they caused you in an accident. and the government getting all the money.

In real life, the person who suffered gets the money. get it yet?

Atonement to God for such sin is totally pointless.

 

[sojourner]

I meant in that those particular people (who follow such a doctrine of forgiving those people who have wronged them) are more likely to forgive wrong done to them. On the other hand, other people are less likely to have forgiven the suffering that was inflicted on them by others, therefore the people who inflicted that suffering are not forgiven and therefore 'love' (whether human or divine in origin) does not enter into it as some sort of panacea against the suffering one inflicts.

Side note: I have never come across the term picayune before, probably because it was 'coined' in America and is therefore not real engrish.

You're treating forgiveness as if it's an event. It's not. It's a process -- and one that sometimes takes a lifetime.

 

[sojourner]

That is if me,because i am weak as a human being,
but we are talking here about god,do you know who is god.
crying on the cross for help and quoting some of his scripture for comfort

Jesus was fully human, too. Just like you.