Did Jesus say he was God???

[joea]

One question. If jesus was God, How can he be the son of God?

Good question.....so many people over the ages, written and re written of the bible hid the real meaning of what Jesus really meant..is it possible Jesus meant that...everyone is their own God ?....I am God and therefore you are God too..

 

[look3467]

IF that were true then any act caused by that alleged intentional flaw, they are not responsible for in the slightest.

Agreed! Hence Gods abundant mercy?

So according to the story book man was given a ' flawed mind ' and then expected to make rational choices?

You are getting the point but, not a "flawed mind" but rather the ability to reason with intelligence, as in being as like God, but gods, lower case g.

Note: "the day ye eat"? Meaning the day reasoning between the two, good and evil is acted upon to wards the good or the evil, meaning, of as an individual entity, apart from God, as in self.

A baby could not make a determination, thus self would not factor in, thus no separation. (Death, spiritual death)

Recall: Mat 19:14But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

A Free Will is useless unless it is capable of ' freely understanding what its choices are '. Adam & Eve were not privy to understanding their ' choices ' because they were created without the knowledge of Good & Evil (So the tale goes

)

The point of "eating" is based on the fact that Adam and Eve already possessed the ability to reason, the only thing left was to base their actions upon what they knew then, about what was good or evil.

The conscience was their guide as it is today. What was different is the knowledge available to them at that time to wards what was good and what was evil.

The law was not given until Moses.

Not at all. Remove any flaws and allow true and educated choices.

The word "flaw" is used by me to describe the designed ability given to man for determining the difference by choice, and not something that is a defect.

For the flaw, marred, as used by the Potter, is a perfect design, otherwise, we would not have the ability to reason, to judge between two opposing issues.

There was no mistake in the making, but in the making, a remedy to save what was made flawed, was acted upon in Jesus.

If you can see the picture, understanding is simple.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Good question.....so many people over the ages, written and re written of the bible hid the real meaning of what Jesus really meant..is it possible Jesus meant that...everyone is their own God ?....I am God and therefore you are God too..

Lets humble ourselves as gods,(Lower case g) not Gods.
We are made in His image, as gods, meaning we are in charge of our own thinking, our own choices, separate from Gods.

It does not mean that God can not influence our decision making.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Composer]

Agreed! Hence Gods abundant mercy?

There was no ' mercy ' shown to Adam & Eve. They were punished regardless of the fact their decision to partake of the forbidden fruit was a choice they had no conception of the consequences because they did not comprehend Good or Evil until after they partook of it.

In fact also, Eve was NOT warned NOT to partake at all, ONLY Adam - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: {thou...: Heb. eating thou shalt eat} 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. {thou shalt surely...: Heb. dying thou shalt die} (Gen. 2:16-17) KJV story book

She was not yet under the authority of her husband either so she can't justly be held responsible for anything her husband Adam might have told her (i.e. hearsay testimony). (cf. Gen. 3:16) KJV story book

If you can see the picture, understanding is simple.

Blessings, AJ

You obviously can't yet see the real picture!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There was no ' mercy ' shown to Adam & Eve. They were punished regardless of the fact their decision to partake of the forbidden fruit was a choice they had no conception of the consequences because they did not comprehend Good or Evil until after they partook of it.
In fact also, Eve was NOT warned NOT to partake at all, ONLY Adam - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: {thou...: Heb. eating thou shalt eat} 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. {thou shalt surely...: Heb. dying thou shalt die} (Gen. 2:16-17) KJV story book
She was not yet under the authority of her husband either so she can't justly be held responsible for anything her husband Adam might have told her (i.e. hearsay testimony). (cf. Gen. 3:16) KJV story book
You obviously can't yet see the real picture!

Adam and Eve were told it was wrong to eat from God's one and only tree.
Don't touch was the same as a No-trespassing sign.

Adam and Eve were created with healthy human perfection of mind and body.
Once perfection sins, whether in heaven or earth, perfect ones heavenly or earthly do not repent or show remorse. Perfect Satan never repented or sowed sorrow neither did Adam nor Eve. Adam even blamed God, or tried to pass the buck, by saying at Gen 3:12 the fault was God's because of the woman that God gave him.

Genesis chapter 2 comes before chapter 3. Eve was already considered 'wife' at Gen 2:22-25. Jesus even referred to Genesis at Matthew 19:5 in connection to the marriage vow.

 

[look3467]

There was no ' mercy ' shown to Adam & Eve. They were punished regardless of the fact their decision to partake of the forbidden fruit was a choice they had no conception of the consequences because they did not comprehend Good or Evil until after they partook of it.>>>Composer

Punished? The story gives us an illusion that that that is the case. Given in such a way that a child can understand.

But when we mature spiritually, we find that that is not the case. We no longer see through a dark glass darkly, but can see clearly.

Clearly seen is the fact that separation, not punishment is the reason for our death.

We become separated from God, meaning death, when the day comes when our eyes are opened as gods, to the knowledge of good and evil.

The point is, that as gods, individual independent entities can not exist in the kingdom of God at the same time unless, are wills becomes His will, can we coexist in His kingdom.

Giving up our will does not mean we lose our character, who we are, but simply loose our bodies to death, while oue spirits (Who we are) lives on in His kingdom.

Now, here is the option for us, we can if we so desire, accept giving up our will to God here and now, and reap the benefits of heaven on earth, and or reject it until we expire, and upon time which then we find to see that Jesus was who He said He was, and be saved.

Mean time, we could enjoy the benefits here and now, of which I can personally state, are real and true in my life.

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In fact also, Eve was NOT warned NOT to partake at all, ONLY Adam -

If Eve was not warned then how does one explain the knowledgeable answer that Eve gave to Satan's question at Genesis 3:2,3 ? ________________________
There Eve plainly says: We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the Garden, but of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden: 'God has said' not to eat of it neither touch it or you will die.

 

[Composer]

Adam and Eve were told it was wrong to eat from God's one and only tree.

Please provide the text that shows Eve was told?

Don't touch was the same as a No-trespassing sign.

Adam alone was told he couldn't ' eat of it '.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. {thou shalt surely...: Heb. dying thou shalt die} (Gen. 2:17) KJV story book

So he COULD touch it, smell it, play footbal with it, anything but ' eat it '

Adam and Eve were created with healthy human perfection of mind and body.

Please show me where it says they were ' perfect? '

At best it says ' Very Good ' (which isn't perfect!) (cf. Gen. 1:31) KJV story book

Once perfection sins, whether in heaven or earth, perfect ones heavenly or earthly do not repent or show remorse.

Empty propaganda!

Perfect Satan never repented or sowed sorrow neither did Adam nor Eve.

There is NO mention of a Satan being in the EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT NT Narrative nor the YLT translation and even the KJV story book translates Satan in parethesis as Adversary (See Job 1:6) KJV story book

Adam even blamed God, or tried to pass the buck, by saying at Gen 3:12 the fault was God's because of the woman that God gave him.

Exactly, so according to your statement Adam was the Devil -

EMPHATIC Diaglott Original NT Greek Text Interlinear APPENDIX pp. 883 - 884 renders: DEVIL, from diabolos, occurs some 30 times, and means a slandered, a traducer, false accuser. Paul uses the word in the plural number three times - 1 Tim. iii. 11; 2 Tim. iii. 3; Titus ii. 3- and applies it to both males and females.​

Genesis chapter 2 comes before chapter 3. Eve was already considered 'wife' at Gen 2:22-25. Jesus even referred to Genesis at Matthew 19:5 in connection to the marriage vow.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband , and he shall rule over thee. {to thy...: or, subject to thy husband } (Gen. 3:16) KJV story book

Therefore the fact that this story book God had to command that this woman henceforth be ruled by her husband means SHE WASN'T BEFORE!

You make the typical mistakes of reading the story book tales ' not as they are ' but how you wished and have been brainwashed to believe what they are saying, but invariably don't)

Nice to discuss with you any how so the Truth can be shared with you!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Composer-

What did Eve say at Genesis 3:2,3?_________________________________________

 

[Composer]

Composer-

What did Eve say at Genesis 3:2,3?_________________________________________

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Gen. 3:2-3) KJV story book

The warning was given to ADAM -

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: {thou...: Heb. eating thou shalt eat} 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. {thou shalt surely...: Heb. dying thou shalt die} (Gen. 2:16-17) KJV story book

Eve wasn't even created yet either so she could hardly have been warned by this God? -

And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. {meet...: Heb. as before him} (Gen. 2:18) KJV story book

Therefore what Eve said to the Serpent Creature in Genesis 3:2-3, that information (distorted according to Gen. 2:17 story book) most probably had to come from Adam.

Though I deem all this as a Story I have researched well and written about this in detail. I may post it as we progress. Meanwhile the point remains that God DID NOT warn nor inform Eve directly. It must have come from Adam's distorted warning.

 

[Muffled]

The evidence is your very interpretation. Your god has never interacted with his creation in the flesh. In the OT the people disobeyed their god and had gone astray way more then they did when reading the NT. The Jews were never taught nor teach their messiah was/is to come in the flesh.

Your own bible says in no less than three different scrolls that your god is not a man nor the son of a man nor one who repents.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent.......

1 Samuel 15:29
And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for He is not a man, that He should repent.

Hosea 11:9
.........for I am God, and not man,..........

I'm not sure what you're getting at but it is what it is. The people in the OT were more defiant than they ever were when reading the NT. There dozens of cases of individual and group "sin".....God never made an appearance in the flesh but on plenty of occasions forgave those whom he wanted to forgive. So the supposed requirement for your god to come in the flesh to die for the sins of its creation is lacking in logic.

You are not allowed to present your premise as a proof of your conclusion. However let's look at the argument "that He never did it before." Are you really trying to say that something can't be done because it wasn't done before? In my life I have many firsts: first kiss, first child, first time I went to school etc. Are you saying that God has less ability than me to do something new? Didn't He destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorah with fire never having done it before? Didn't He part the Red Sea never having done that before either? Are you trying to say that God is less powerful now than He was then? How do you account for that? So we are to base our understanding on what God is willing to do on the misinterpretations of scripture by Jewish scholars?

Your logic here is the same as it was when you said that God never became a man before. If you are going to argue that He should have done it earlier, then why not argue that God could just simply have destroyed Adam and Eve and started all over. The obvious answer is that it would not have achieved the objective. The truth is that God does the things He does when He does them to achieve His purposes.

 

[Muffled]

Awwh, another unscriptural doctrine of christianity, the rapture.

I started a thread called "Rapture" on Scriptural Debates (not Biblical debates). I am looking forward to your response.

 

[AK4]

I started a thread called "Rapture" on Scriptural Debates (not Biblical debates). I am looking forward to your response.

Will do.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

However let's look at the argument "that He never did it before." Are you really trying to say that something can't be done because it wasn't done before?

What I'm saying is your bible does not record it. Your bible records "God's" ability to forgive its creation without the need of himself coming in the flesh to save or forgive. The OT is littered with accounts of this. It is evident, by reading your OT, that your god sends saviours, blesses his creation, forgives its creation as well as saves its creation and all of these accounts are done by your god without sending himself in the flesh to do it.

So we are to base our understanding on what God is willing to do on the misinterpretations of scripture by Jewish scholars?

Maybe the misunderstanding of scripture is yours.

Your logic here is the same as it was when you said that God never became a man before. If you are going to argue that He should have done it earlier, then why not argue that God could just simply have destroyed Adam and Eve and started all over. The obvious answer is that it would not have achieved the objective. The truth is that God does the things He does when He does them to achieve His purposes.

If it is truly omnipotent and omniscient then it should have no goal of purpose.

 

[David69]

Good question.....so many people over the ages, written and re written of the bible hid the real meaning of what Jesus really meant..is it possible Jesus meant that...everyone is their own God ?....I am God and therefore you are God too..

I beleive that he is part of God so therefore is in a way God JMO

 

[Rainbow Mage]

It seems Jesus may have been saying something along the lines of what Krishna told Arjuna in the Gita. Maybe Jesus was telling people that god is within all of us.

 

[David69]

well he is, isnt he!

 

[AK4]

What I'm saying is your bible does not record it. Your bible records "God's" ability to forgive its creation without the need of himself coming in the flesh to save or forgive. The OT is littered with accounts of this. It is evident, by reading your OT, that your god sends saviours, blesses his creation, forgives its creation as well as saves its creation and all of these accounts are done by your god without sending himself in the flesh to do it.

Yes He is more than capable of doing it that way, but it was the people who wouldnt take to heart the forgiving power of God and they would slip back into their old ways after God forgave them. The couldnt keep HIs covenant so He brought about a new covenant. They couldnt trust in God to be their king and they wanted to be like the other nations so God gave them a king. So instead of God constantly having to forgive and correct them and remind them of the covenant, He came Himself, establiished a the new covenant He promised back in Jeremiah, He gave them a real King and High priest.

Not that God can get weary but cant you see how if it was you, you would get tired of always forgiving them and giving them kings who sometimes even led them even further into sin? Wouldnt you, if you were God, just come down yourself, establish a new covenant, tell them that you are their true king, their last and final king?

 

[look3467]

It seems Jesus may have been saying something along the lines of what Krishna told Arjuna in the Gita. Maybe Jesus was telling people that god is within all of us.

Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Blessings, AJ

At verse 20 Jesus was addressing his enemies the religious leaders.
It is not until verse 22 that Jesus addresses his disciples.

So the kingdom could not be literally within the false Pharisees, but Jesus was right there in front of them, within their midst, as the future king designate of God's royal kingdom.

Luke 19:12 to 15 - Doesn't Jesus give an illustration about himself as to having to go away to a far country [heaven] in order to first receive the kingdom and then return? Jesus does not become the crowned acting king of God's kingdom or royal government until Psalm 110:1 is fulfilled.
-See also Matthew 25:14.