Did Jesus say he was God???

[Mark2020]

Did you not read what I said? Your Greek-English translation is simple and matches mine, the Christian translations you use are purely doctrinally based extending on the initial definition.

Did you read what I said about 1 Cor 8:6?

I've said your words without references are useless.

 

[Shermana]

I've given the meaning the meaning from english and greek dictionaries.
You can keep playing your "silly word games" with yourself.

Again useless posts will be totally ignored.

You are obviously not ignoring these "useless posts", but the content and facts perhaps. The word "Midst" is used 19 times, the word "Center" in Strong's (Which includes various translations) is used 6 times (1 included in your example), and the context for those verses is important to know what kind of "center" is implied.

 

[Shermana]

I've said your words without references are useless.

Your references are from Theologically-backed Protestant origins, so if I say my view on this is similar to that of the JW's, does that not count as a reference? If not, why does only your "Word Study" count but not a JW's? Once again, "Pre-eminent" still means "Best/Highest authority Among".

Col. 1:15, "firstborn of all creation" | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

CARM's response to them is the same thing in every way to the usual responses, and it presupposes on their own interpretation of John 1:1c to begin with and the ending is worth reading alone for the comedy.

Scripture best interprets scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as the Jehovah's Witnesses say it means here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14) and is also the first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all things. The Jehovah's Witnesses should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15. They should also abandon the Watchtower which guides them in their thinking and believing.

 

[javajo]

Here is what I believe. Jesus is God to me (if not to you). He is the image of the invisible God, so...Anyway, That's what I believe. I also believe that I do love those verses in Colossians 1 and 2:

12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: COl. 1

8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col. 2

 

[look3467]

Eternal life is a free gift!>>>javajo

True, but one has to want it to receive it!

Blessings, AJ

 

[javajo]

True, but one has to want it to receive it!

Blessings, AJ

True. Here is what I believe about that: I wanted it, I asked for it, Christ gave it to me, I received it, and now I have it forever. I have the life and I have the eternal. Yay!

 

[Mark2020]

True. Here is what I believe about that: I wanted it, I asked for it, Christ gave it to me, I received it, and now I have it forever. I have the life and I have the eternal. Yay!

And let me add:
from 1Cor 12:3
"no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit."

 

[Mark2020]

Your references are ...

I hope you've finished editing.
You've failed so far to show any reference to disprove my view or to prove yours. You only give useless words.
And you've failed to disprove that 'ανα μεσον' means 'in the center/midst of'.

 

[Shermana]

I hope you've finished editing.
You've failed so far to show any reference to disprove my view or to prove yours. You only give useless words.
And you've failed to disprove that 'ανα μεσον' means 'in the center/midst of'.

Perhaps you didn't understand why I posted CARM's response to JWs who also agree with me.

I asked you to point out where the other 5 locations of the word are that Strong's says is "center" as opposed to the 19 uses of "midst of". You obviously can;'t do it. Let me see if I can find them. Might take me a few minutes.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

I agree with you. Jesus not only claimed to be God, He is God. Plain and simple.

 

[Shermana]

I agree with you. Jesus not only claimed to be God, He is God. Plain and simple.

Jesus never claimed to be G-d, he is a "god", the Firstborn among creation. Plain and simple.

 

[Mark2020]

Perhaps you didn't understand why I posted CARM's response to JWs who also agree with me.

I asked you to point out where the other 5 locations of the word are that Strong's says is "center" as opposed to the 19 uses of "midst of". You obviously can;'t do it. Let me see if I can find them. Might take me a few minutes.

Still useless words

 

[Shermana]

μέσονmeson3319A-ASNcenter
Here we go:

middle, in the midst​

Original Word: μέσος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: mesos
Phonetic Spelling: (mes'-os)
Short Definition: middle, in the middle
Definition: middle, in the middle, between, in the midst of.

Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
middle, in the midst
NASB Word Usage
among (3), among* (5), before* (3), between (1), between* (3), center (6), forward* (3), midday* (1), middle (6), midnight* (2), midst (19), two (1), way (2), within* (1).

Let's find those time it says "center" other than in Rev 7.

I see "middle" as in "Midst of" in Rev 6:6. I see "Among the lampstands" in 1:13...no sign of "center" anywhere yet, was Strong's lying about it being mentioned 5 times? I don't see it.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Whose seated on the left hand of God?

Not sure. Does their scripture say? I know it is said that Yeshua is to be seated at the right hand of his god....

 

[Shermana]

Still useless words

Who Is Jesus Christ? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

Jesus is Jehovah’s most precious Son—and for good reason. He is called “the firstborn of all creation,” for he was God’s first creation.# (Colossians 1:15) There is something else that makes this Son special. He is the “only-begotten Son.” (John 3:16) This means that Jesus is the only one directly created by God. Jesus is also the only one whom God used when He created all other things. (Colossians 1:16) Then, too, Jesus is called “the Word.” (John 1:14) This tells us that he spoke for God, no doubt delivering messages and instructions to the Father’s other sons, both spirit and human.

 

[Mark2020]

μέσονmeson3319A-ASNcenter
Here we go:

middle, in the midst​

Original Word: μέσος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: mesos
Phonetic Spelling: (mes'-os)
Short Definition: middle, in the middle
Definition: middle, in the middle, between, in the midst of.

Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
middle, in the midst
NASB Word Usage
among (3), among* (5), before* (3), between (1), between* (3), center (6), forward* (3), midday* (1), middle (6), midnight* (2), midst (19), two (1), way (2), within* (1).

Let's find those time it says "center" other than in Rev 7.

I see "middle" as in "Midst of" in Rev 6:6. I see "Among the lampstands" in 1:13...no sign of "center" anywhere yet, was Strong's lying about it being mentioned 5 times? I don't see it.

I've already said that 'midst' in the KJV has the same meaning.

Vine's You can learn NT Greek:
ἀνὰ μέσον = in the midst of

 

[Mark2020]

Who Is Jesus Christ? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

Is this your reference?!

I was expecting some real references like I showed you.
Instead of attacking the authors, show your own.

 

[Shermana]

http://biblos.com/matthew/10-16.htm

Matthew 10:16 ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἀποστέλλω ὑμᾶς ὡς πρόβατα ἐν μέσῳ λύκων· γίνεσθε οὖν φρόνιμοι ὡς οἱ ὄφεις καὶ ἀκέραιοι ὡς αἱ περιστεραί.
"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Adjective: Dative Singular Neuter Matthew 14:6 γενεσίοις δὲ γενομένοις τοῦ Ἡρῴδου ὠρχήσατο ἡ θυγάτηρ τῆς Ἡρῳδιάδος ἐν τῷ μέσῳ καὶ ἤρεσεν τῷ Ἡρῴδῃ,
But when Herod's birthday came, the daughter of Herodias danced among them and pleased Herod.
Adjective: Dative Singular Neuter Matthew 18:2 καὶ προσκαλεσάμενος παιδίον ἔστησεν αὐτὸ ἐν μέσῳ αὐτῶν
Jesus called a little child to himself, and set him in the midst of them,
Adjective: Dative Singular Neuter Matthew 18:20 οὗ γάρ εἰσιν δύο ἢ τρεῖς συνηγμένοι εἰς τὸ ἐμὸν ὄνομα, ἐκεῖ εἰμι ἐν μέσῳ αὐτῶν.
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them."
Adjective: Dative Singular Neuter Mark 6:47 καὶ ὀψίας γενομένης ἦν τὸ πλοῖον ἐν μέσῳ τῆς θαλάσσης, καὶ αὐτὸς μόνος ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς.
When evening had come, the boat was in the midst of the sea, and he was alone on the land.

If you think the word "Center" or "middle" applies to any of these, you're welcome to your opinion.

 

[Shermana]

Is this your reference?!

I was expecting some real references like I showed you.
Instead of attacking the authors, show your own.

Why are your references "real" exactly? The Greek-English one as I've said twice, agrees with my position, and shows that your "Word Study" and "Vine's" (Vine's is not objective) is taking liberties.

Please explain why your references are real and that one isn't.

So if a Protestant Trinitarian writes it, it's real apparently....but if a JW writes something, it's not. I see where this logic comes from.

Also, I didn't attack the authors, I attacked the fact that their definitions are biased and go beyond what the Greek-English simply states, and they are including doctrinal views into their translation beyond what the word means.

 

[Mark2020]

If you think the word "Center" or "middle" applies to any of these, you're welcome to your opinion.

It's not even the same preposition before it.
And which meaning would you rather use before the word "Throne"? In the middle/midst/center all mean the same.