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Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
- Start date
astarath
Well-Known Member
to answer the question unfortunately Jeremian this is one question that no one is going to answer for you. Many people will present to you many answers unfortunately in the end it is all down to the individual to find the answer themselves.
May Allah be with you and rest wisdom upon you!!!
May Allah be with you and rest wisdom upon you!!!
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
Such poor manners...
I already know that Jesus was not God in the flesh because there never was a God.
I was trying to keep my beliefs out of the argument because they are irrelevant; like all beliefs.
And how/why did you come to this conclusion that there is no God? Just curious as to what specifically hinders you from believing?
Yes, there are documents that contain statements about Jesus. (Non-Christian sources).
From:
Tacitus
Talmud
Josephus (the core is Josephus although there is question about alteration)
Pliny the Younger
Lucian
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
WhereintheTalmud isJesus mentioned contemoraneously withtheTalmud?
Regards,
Scott
Regards,
Scott
Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . .{5}
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
It's just the way I am, who know's life events? Upbringing? God's will?
I might be able to explain it if we where face to face.
"Just curious as to what specifically hinders you from believing?"
Nothing hinders me I just choose to believe there is no God.
What hinders you from seeing the world with no God?
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
UnityNow101
Well-Known Member
I believe that the great historian Josephus speaks about Jesus, although I could be wrong.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
This response is geared to those who believe that Jesus existed and that the Bible is nearly accurate (exceptios of course include translations errors. The sole purpose is to look at the "trinity" and assert that Jesus was God. When I was an unbeliever I found the following information helpful along my journey. Because I am assuming and hoping everyone is after the Truth maybe this will help with this issue.
I say truth because I whole-heartly believe that God has articulated to his creation their inherient purpose. Regardless of ones up-bringing and culture, I believe everyone is accountable to search for the real Truth because what greater question could there be? Obviously this Truth is something for another thread, but I simply wanted to express my feelings on the matter.
Nevertheless, I find the following an appropriate way of illustrating the relationship between Jesus and God - outside of Biblical information.
The Three Diminisions of space. As you all know the three dimisions represent that you can either move 1. up/down 2. left/right 3. backwards/forwards. Essentially, what I mean by this is that each dimisions builds upon itself - until when all three dimisions are present a figure forms or you might call it a solid body. In essence, a line is formed -> then a square -> finally a cube. Furthermore, all three dimisions are needed to build the entire figure. Now if we apply this same concept to the trinity and the way in which humans view God - humans would be the 1st diminision. As humans look toward the 2nd dimision or the divine level - we still find characteristics/personalities but they are combined in many different ways that we cannot imagine simply because our minds cannot conceive of concept not known to us. Going a little further, on God's diminision, you find a being that is three Persons yet He remains One Being (just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Obviously this concept is impossible for mankind to understand - just as if we were only given two diminisions in space we could never properly imagine a cube - yet we get a slight glimpse of it.
Additionally, when mankind looks at Theology and the reason why I (I know others might not) view it as an experimental science - it seems obvious that people had a vague idea of God.
Basically what I am trying to say is this: people discredit Jesus = God in many cases because it does not make sense (which I completely understand). The again, it is very difficult for me to comprehend b/c I am not God nor nearly on his level. The question becomces, if someone tried to explain something in 12-D (as I see it in the Bible), would I be able to follow? Very little because I only know and can comprehend things in 3-D and less.there is absolutely no way that I would be able to understand it. Yes, I might be able to vaguely understand but that is about as my mind can perceive. By this reasoning, for me to sit here and say that Jesus couldn't be God (as One Being) makes no sense because my mind cannot comprehend the exact naure of God and what He can encompass.
Out of time, will write more later
I say truth because I whole-heartly believe that God has articulated to his creation their inherient purpose. Regardless of ones up-bringing and culture, I believe everyone is accountable to search for the real Truth because what greater question could there be? Obviously this Truth is something for another thread, but I simply wanted to express my feelings on the matter.
Nevertheless, I find the following an appropriate way of illustrating the relationship between Jesus and God - outside of Biblical information.
The Three Diminisions of space. As you all know the three dimisions represent that you can either move 1. up/down 2. left/right 3. backwards/forwards. Essentially, what I mean by this is that each dimisions builds upon itself - until when all three dimisions are present a figure forms or you might call it a solid body. In essence, a line is formed -> then a square -> finally a cube. Furthermore, all three dimisions are needed to build the entire figure. Now if we apply this same concept to the trinity and the way in which humans view God - humans would be the 1st diminision. As humans look toward the 2nd dimision or the divine level - we still find characteristics/personalities but they are combined in many different ways that we cannot imagine simply because our minds cannot conceive of concept not known to us. Going a little further, on God's diminision, you find a being that is three Persons yet He remains One Being (just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Obviously this concept is impossible for mankind to understand - just as if we were only given two diminisions in space we could never properly imagine a cube - yet we get a slight glimpse of it.
Additionally, when mankind looks at Theology and the reason why I (I know others might not) view it as an experimental science - it seems obvious that people had a vague idea of God.
Basically what I am trying to say is this: people discredit Jesus = God in many cases because it does not make sense (which I completely understand). The again, it is very difficult for me to comprehend b/c I am not God nor nearly on his level. The question becomces, if someone tried to explain something in 12-D (as I see it in the Bible), would I be able to follow? Very little because I only know and can comprehend things in 3-D and less.there is absolutely no way that I would be able to understand it. Yes, I might be able to vaguely understand but that is about as my mind can perceive. By this reasoning, for me to sit here and say that Jesus couldn't be God (as One Being) makes no sense because my mind cannot comprehend the exact naure of God and what He can encompass.
Out of time, will write more later
There is only one benefit for believing Jesus is God!
That being, you are accepted into the Christian community!
There could be a downside for teaching Jesus is God and the trinity.
When he comes we will know him as he is. If this is not as God nor a trinity, you could lose reward. You could be "Least in the Kingdom." I am sure you don't want that, even if it is better than being classified as wicked.
You count the number of scriptures where he is called the "Son of God" then count the one that someone said "my Lord my God." 12 to 1.
Shalom
That being, you are accepted into the Christian community!
There could be a downside for teaching Jesus is God and the trinity.
When he comes we will know him as he is. If this is not as God nor a trinity, you could lose reward. You could be "Least in the Kingdom." I am sure you don't want that, even if it is better than being classified as wicked.
You count the number of scriptures where he is called the "Son of God" then count the one that someone said "my Lord my God." 12 to 1.
Shalom
Muffled
Jesus in me
I'm curious. Do you belong to The Way International?
I don't agree that attributions are good evidence. How reliable are the witnesses calling Jesus "Son of God." It is only God who can call himself God but others have often called a peice of wood God which doesn't make much sense to me.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
I do not believe Jesus is God in the Flesh. You cannot contain the infinite within the finite, nor the oceans in a teacup.
Regards,
Scott
Regards,
Scott
ayani
member
i agree with Scott. perhaps God was manifest through the person of Jesus in order to reveal some of His presence and truths to humans, but i can not believe the *one man* who lived in Palestine 2000 years ago contained the full presence of God in human form, and all truth, and that is it. it is too... limiting. many Christians, my mother included, argue that "God can do anything and become anything, so why can't He come to earth as Jesus?" yes, surely God is not limited in His presence of forms, i agree with this. what i can not accept is the singularity of this occurence- what i believe Jesus was trying to say is that "we are all a part of God" (to paraphrase) and that "the kingdom of heaven is within".