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Did Jesus say he was God???

yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
Shermana said:
Yeah, you're never guilty of simply repeating poor arguments over and over. At least my argument is gramatically consistent, all you can do is present translations that agree with you, your grammar is faulty and you simply brush off my counter of use of the word "of his own" as "poor". If you want to tell the RSV they're so wrong, write them a letter.
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lol...your a bad looser, they already know about the grammer because the addition is in the reference margin of the rsv version....:)
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Mark2020 said:
lol
Did you not read my whole post?
It does show that your argument is poor.
And surely not consistent as I showed.
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Not at all, your grammar is incorrect, Tou Idiou is implying "of his own" as an articulated reference to "his own (entity/family,) you simply brushed off my question of what the word "own" means in regards to "their own house" (house of their own) and dismissed all the other times that "his own" means "His own family" without answering it, because you know it proves you wrong. Why do you think the RSV translated it as they did? Because they are JWs?
 
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Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
yourgraceisenough said:
lol...your a bad looser, they already know about the grammer because the addition is in the reference margin of the rsv version....:)
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1. Telling me I'm a bad looser is not a substitute for actually addressing any of the specifics of my claims.

2. Apparently you don't understand the point of footnotes in the margins.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Dirty Penguin said:
No it's not.

Paul's doxology stems from the Old Testament.

Psalms 41:14
Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, from all eternity and forever. Amen. Amen.

We also find this doxology in the book of Nehemiah.

Nehemiah 9:5
The Levites Jeshua, Kadmiel, Bani, Hashabneiah, Sherebiah, Hodiah, Shebaniah, and Pethahiah said, “Arise, bless the LORD, your God, from eternity to eternity!” “And may they bless your glorious name,which is exalted above all blessing and praise.”

So the one who is forever is not Yeshua but in reference to YHWH. We know it's Paul's doxology considering......

Romans 1:25
They changed the truth of God into a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator who is blessed to the ages. Amen."

As well as here....

2 Corinthians 11:31
"The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ knows that I am not lying, he being blessed to the ages."

;)
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You might as well say nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah. It is just as childish and just as good an argument.

I just finished saying that the Doxology was irrelevant. Unless of course you are trying to confirm what I said. However I don't see that happening.

I think it is simply that you are trying to change the word of God, since you aren't capable of arguing against it.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Shermana said:
Isn't it great when a verse that proves someone wrong is "irrelevant"?
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The verse never proved anything. The misinterpretation of the verse is supposed to counter the verses that infer the contrary but that does not mean that they are relevant to the contrary verses.

However it is more likely for the verses to be in hamony that Jesus be considered God in the flesh. For a person interpreting the other way the contrary verses can't be harmonized.
 
javajo

javajo

Well-Known Member
Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, which the religious leaders understood that by saying that he was making himself equal with God. Jesus also said that as the Father gives life, so does he.

17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; John 5
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Shermana said:
First and the Last is not an exclusive title like Alpha and Omega. He is the Firstborn of Creation and the Last Adam. Mark2020 ran away from this subject last time. Either way, that's not Alpha and Omega anymore now is it.
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You don't understand Greek? Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. The first and last is an obvious reference to Alpha and Omega as used in the same chapter.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Muffled said:
You don't understand Greek? Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. The first and last is an obvious reference to Alpha and Omega as used in the same chapter.
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If Jesus is begotten how could he be first?
 
Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Muffled said:
You might as well say nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah. It is just as childish and just as good an argument.
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Actually I was just pointing out how incorrect you are. How you perceive it is your prerogative.

Muffled said:
I just finished saying that the Doxology was irrelevant. Unless of course you are trying to confirm what I said. However I don't see that happening.
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Why, because you say so? Like I said...this interpretation is from United States Conference Of Catholic Bishops. If you're disagreeing with me in regards to Paul's doxology then your fight is with them...not me.

Muffled said:
I think it is simply that you are trying to change the word of God, since you aren't capable of arguing against it.
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Once again...this goes to show you have no idea what you're talking about. How can I change the scripture? Your beef is with the interpretation and the fact of the matter is I got the interpretation from the USCCB. This was all explained here (http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2627017-post4779.html)
 
javajo

javajo

Well-Known Member
Dirty Penguin said:
Oh, he certainly said he existed "with" his god...but the scripture show he maintains he was separate while in heaven "with" his god....thus he is not "God"...:sad:
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Well there is just one God. If one believes in one God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, then it all makes good sense. At least it does to me.
 
Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
javajo said:
Well there is just one God. If one believes in one God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, then it all makes good sense. At least it does to me.
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If one believes that Yeshua maintained he was separate from his god, the one that taught him and commanded him as to what he should say while he was in heaven before being sent to earth, then it all makes perfect sense that he, himself, is not "God".
 
javajo

javajo

Well-Known Member
Dirty Penguin said:
If one believes that Yeshua maintained he was separate from his god, the one that taught him and commanded him as to what he should say while he was in heaven before being sent to earth, then it all makes perfect sense that he, himself, is not "God".
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I believe he is God the Son who does the will of God the Father. I believe he is the infinitely holy God who alone could pay for my infinitely offensive sins so I may be made the righteousness of God in him.
 
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