Did Jesus say he was God???

[Dirty Penguin]

Boy, do I know this isn't Christians only.

One of the most hostile enviorments I've ever experienced. Brings back memories of the jungle...

I apologize If you thought I was being hostile toward you. I was not my intent. Now do you see what interpreting words can lead to?


Honestly, you should be able to take some criticism when it comes to your faith. Not everyone will share your view.

 

[Luke_17:2]

Oh, I wasn't referring to you.

I'm referring to the atmosphere in general. From apostate Christians to God-hating atheists...

I don't mind it, though.

P.S. I'll reply to your two posts later.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Oh, I wasn't referring to you.

No problem

I'm referring to the atmosphere in general. From apostate Christians

I didn't realize one could be an apostate christian...... (who knew....)... kinda sounds like millitary intelligence......

to God-hating atheists...

Well, I can assure you athiest don't "hate" what they don't consider exist....

 

[Luke_17:2]

Part 1
I knew it......I knew you, like most christians would try to use that verse. I will say it again. 8:58 in WHOLE has nothing......NOTHING to do with Yeshua claiming to be God. That whole chapter he sets himself separate from God. As I've previously explained, he admits he existed before the world was. This is mentioned in his LONG WINDED PRAYER to God in chapeter 17 of the SAME BOOK (John).....Now it wasn't until AFTER he told them he existed before their beloved Abraham they wanted to kill him. What, do you feel God broke off a piece of himself, taught it what to say, commanded it what to say and sent it to earth....?

for I am not alone, but I and the Father (GOD) that sent me.

and the Father (GOD) that sent me beareth witness of me.

I do nothing of myself; but as my Father (GOD) hath taught me, I speak these things.

And he (GOD) that sent me is with me (In spirit and in purpose): the Father (GOD) hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him (GOD).

This one is nice... He has not left me. If Yeshua was God how could God leave him? Who was Yeshua pleasing if he is God?

I speak that which I have seen (with) my Father (GOD)

Sounds sparate to me here.

I have heard of God

we have one Father, even God.
"WE (he include himself)" have one common source.....God...for I proceeded forth and came (from God); neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

In heaven with his own will....Remember now the physical body didn't exist in heaven.

but I honour my Father

His father who is also our father..And the father is God. If you're going to look at these basic statements to try and make them appear esoteric then it will do you no good. These are made clear and straight to the point. Up to this point the people there are still listening to him and have not yet tried to kill him so he continues.....

And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth

it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his (GOD's) saying.

This is just in chapter 8 alone. Not once do we find a statement where he says he is God or that he and God are equal.

Thomas not believing Yeshua was alive saw him and esclaimed "my god!"

If you notice most scholars and linguist render that verse in english with an esclamation at the end. So this does not set the tone for Thomas to call Yeshua God. The word worhip or worshipped are used in broad terms in the 4 books.

Strong's Greek Lexicon
4352. proskuneo pros-koo-neh'-o from 4314 and a probable derivative of 2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship.

Almost like when one goes to a funeral ceremony to pay homage or their repects. Should we assume they are there to worship a dead body? This same word can be applied to catholics when they kneel before the Pope and kiss his ring. Are you suggesting they worship they Pope? When you ask catholics a question like that they will surely tell you it's a sign of respect.

The latin vulgate use the same word (adore). Other bibles are in accordance with Strong's lexicographical rendering of the word. "Maybe" in the greek language that is the only word that was available to be used but depending on the situation the word can be applied broadly.

I was waiting for the "And Yeshua said" but I'm reminded that this is from the commentary of men who assumed him to be God.

You are assuming I'm a christian and I'm not. The trinity is a man made concept. Yeshua was God's word manifest (brought forth) in the flesh.

Carrying God's word doesn't automatically mean one has to be God. Was Moses God when he brought the word of God to his people, was Abraham God when he brought the word of God to the people, Were any of the sons of God (those classified as angels) God when they brought the word of God? No where does Yeshua say he is God or that he is God manifest in the flesh. He does reavel that he brings Gods' word..and this is what makes the word manifest in flesh and walk amongst the people.

Exactly, so now you're starting to get it. So where do we find any statement from Yeshua saying he is all knowing...We don't. We don't find a verse that even comes close to that. So it is assumed that he is God even when he clearly expresses he isn't.

So you reference Isaiah 55:8 and this in itself is talking about God and not Yeshua. There's a big difference. But in reality you read that statement and it could fit God, Yeshua and even the angels.

Part 2
From my understanding and the understanding Yeshua had the "Father" was God so he couldn't have been praying to himself.

What other reasoning must I use? Have you been endowed with super human reasoning that we lack? I can reason that Yeshua is not God when he said "MY GOD and YOUR GOD......."MY GOD, MY GOD, Why have YOU left me"

So what is your reason he is.........

Matthew 3:16,17
And Yeshua , when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
You might have to rethink that statement you made because the book you thump says otherwise. Just want to make another point here...If he was God then there would be no need for him to receive his own spirit. Here's the trippy part....Yeshua being God received the spirit of God then he talked to himself from heaven and said that he was pleased with himself......WOW...!!!!

This is another christian myth. I have proof he was not bound by physical laws. Was he not able to calm the waters and the storm, was he not able to walk on water, was he not able to change mere H20 in to wine or feed the multitude with little bit of bread and fish, was he not able to heel the blind or cause the lame to walk....and was he not able to raise the dead???????????

No person on this earth bound by physical laws can do these things. If so then Yeshua wasn't that special. But you said it for me...The power he had came from God. All that he had was given.

I was going to respond comment by comment, but there were so many contradictions, and then so many parts that could be answered together that I decided to answer point by point.

Several points:

1. You can't quote Scripture on one hand, and throw it out on the other. What Paul said was Scripture, and as you said, he assumed Jesus to be God. Why? Because He was! Paul and the rest of the disciples were Christians: they understood this

Scripture proving the deity of Christ:

I Timothy 3:16
Hebrews 1:8
John 1:1-2,13
Isaiah 9:6

These are Scriptures written under divine inspiration or dictation: attempts to revise them by corrupting the original Greek are satanic

2. Jesus was God manifest in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16). Therefore He had two natures: A human one and a divine one. His divine one made Him holy, wise, and perfect; His human one bound Him to frailties, and limitations. So, all you're scripture references showing His subordination to the Father are correct, but that's because He was in the flesh when He said it.

3. The Trinity is not a man-made concept.

Genesis 1:26
Hosea 12:4
Matthew 28:19
Romans 1:20
Colossians 2:9

A good Biblical picture of it is actually one of your references: Matthew 3

4. He was the Word of God, but that doesn't mean He wasn't God.

John 1:1-2,14
Hebrews 1:8

It makes extremely clear that Jesus is God: only Satan could sucessfully turn Christians against that teaching. A non-Christian has no right questioning it as it is a Christian doctrine!

5. His physical body does exist in heaven -He's still the physical manifestation of God. Though He no longer is no longer bound by flesh.

Zechariah 13:6
Mark 16:19
Luke 26:51
I Timothy 3:16

6. A non-Christian simply won't grasp much of the Scripture because it requires the influence of the Holy Spirit dwelling in your heart.

I Corinthians 2:14

I tried to respond to all issues. Point out any one I missed

 

[Luke_17:2]

"No, there's three possibilities.....Jesus was either Lord, Liar or Lunatic. "

Nom there's a fourth, he was a myth.

No, He most certainly wasn't a myth.

The Roman historian Tacitus recorded His existence. God in the Flesh, or simple carpenter: He existed.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Several points:

1. You can't quote Scripture on one hand, and throw it out on the other.

Sure I can. What I throw out is commentary by the writers of these scriptures. As I have said to some one else here, it is clear that the writers nor the deciples were witnesses to the birth of Yeshua but you can certainly see that they wrote about the birth and the events surrounding the birth. This shows that the information they received was second, third hand etc. In their writing you can clearly see whan they give their commentary. This is evident when you begin to read the book of John as well as Luke who admits to Theopolis getting his information from those who were actually witnesses.

What Paul said was Scripture, and as you said, he assumed Jesus to be God

Where does Paul quote scripture. At the time of Paul's preaching I don't believe at that point there was much wrtten down as to the life and times of Yeshua. I don't believe at any point in Paul's ministry he quotes anything Yeshua ever said. On the other hand the writes of the 4 books and acts show that they gathered their information from either being near Yeshua or getting information from those who were near Yeshua.

Paul himself never talked to or from what we see from the scriptures ever met Yeshua so all that is given from him is his opinion. His total claim of being an apostle is that he heard a voice on the road. This means nothing. He is the only one that heard the voice and really, how is that any different than those today claiming God spoke to them or Yeshua appeared to them in a dream? He was a self proclaimed apostle was responsible for making Yeshua into a god.

Why? Because He was!

I see...because Paul said he was God we must believe that Yeshua was God despite the lack of acknowledgment from Yeshua or his followers?

Paul and the rest of the disciples were Christians: they understood this

The deciples as well as Paul were not christians. They didn't receive that title until later. This title was "given" to then. The deciples of Yeshua didn't go out professing to be christians.

Scripture proving the deity of Christ:

I Timothy 3:16

That verse does not prove deity. It shows divinity, yes....but deity and devinity are not the same ting. Once can be divine without being a god.

Hebrews 1:8

This is more comentary from men who assumed Yeshua to be God and it is a quote from Psalms 45:6 as well as 7 almost verbatim. You must also note the context because in Hebrews 1:9 reads, "God, your God, anointed you." This makes it clear that the one addressed in verse eight is not God, but one who worships God and is anointed by him. So again, this does not prove deity.

John 1:1-2,13

This commentary has already been addressed. Yeshua is God's word in the flesh........This has been previously shown.

Isaiah 9:6

This has been addressed and nothing to do with Yeshua or Yeshua being God.

These are Scriptures written under divine inspiration or dictation: attempts to revise them by corrupting the original Greek are satanic

What we have today is not divinely inspired unless you can read koine greek or aramaic. Are you quoting from scriptures such as this? Are you fluent in these languages? See that's the problem with people making statements such as the one you made. You're reading translated scriptures not to mention you don't have access to all of the scrolls that were not included in what is known as "the bible".... and then you make an accusation like this. Now it is on you to show what greek has been corrupted.

2. Jesus was God manifest in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16).

Again, that's not exactly what that verse says. But as I've shown with John, Yeshua was God's word manifest in the flesh.

Therefore He had two natures: A human one and a divine one. His divine one made Him holy, wise, and perfect; His human one bound Him to frailties, and limitations. So, all you're scripture references showing His subordination to the Father are correct

I agree.......and as I see it as his nature of divine and human ran together without distiction and he knew that whatever power he possessed was granted to him by God.

3. The Trinity is not a man-made concept.

Genesis 1:26

Now it's on you to show why you believe this is father son and holy spirit speaking here instead of just God or God and his angels.

Hosea 12:4

This has nothing to do with Yeshua or the trinity. Read by itself I can understand how you made that conclusion but all altogether it has nothing to do with Yeshua. It's going to be a real stretch for you to use OT to prove trinity.

Matthew 28:19

I hope that you take the time to review what scholars say about this verse. It is said that some scholars (F.C. Conybeare, K. Lake, J. Martineau, A. Harnack, A.S. Peake, H. Kosmala, etc.) Conybeare is believed to have been the first to write against it, following the discovery of a variant reading of the verse, within the writings of Eusebius of Caesarea. Some 17 times in his works prior to Nicea, Eusebius quotes Matthew 28:19 as "Go and make disciples of all nations in my name" without mentioning the Trinity baptism command.

"Go ye and make disciples of all peoples in my name, and teach them every thing which I have commanded you"

Romans 1:20

I was going to stay awa from his opinions but here we go. You're going to have to demostrate how Paul expressed this verse as trinity or Yeshua being deity. Take a look at how he viewed Yeshua in relation to God from the beginning of that letter. He viewed them separate.

Romans: 3,4
3 concerning his (GOD's) Son, who sprang from the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 but who with power was declared God’s Son according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the dead—yes, Jesus Christ our Lord

Romans 7 (in part)
May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Where does he use trinity here? He separates the "two"...Where is Yeshua being viewed as deity here?.....

Rome 1:8,9
8 First of all, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ concerning all of YOU, because YOUR faith is talked about throughout the whole world. 9For God, to whom I render sacred service with my spirit in connection with the good news about his Son, is my witness of how without ceasing I always make mention of YOU in my prayers

He continues to view them separate....

Colossians 2:9

So I can only conclude that by posting this reference to the verse you are putting an emphasis on the greek word that has been rendered as "deity" and guess this word spoken by Paul is to mean deity instead of divine?

I view it as divine and there is no question as to whether Jesus possesses all the fullness of divine quality or nature. For some context see Col. 1:19

Col. 1:19
"For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in him."

This verse then tells us that it was God's, Yeshua's Father himself that gave good pleasure, or allowed the Son to possess this fullness of divine quality.

A non-Christian has no right questioning it as it is a Christian doctrine!

NON Christians have every right to question a doctrine that doesn't make any sense to them.

Zechariah 13:6

This has absolutely nothing to do with Yeshua.

Mark 16:19

So God sits at the right hand of God?
God sits beside himsel?

Luke 26:51

I couldn't find that. My bibles don't go that far. Did you mean to refernce another book?

A non-Christian simply won't grasp much of the Scripture because it requires the influence of the Holy Spirit dwelling in your heart.

It requires no such thing.

 

[the-nameless-one]

I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.

It has been said that the Godhead is a mystery designed by God. What is a "mystery"? A mystery is something that is understood by some, but is hidden from others. I Timothy 3:16 says, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

The bible clearly tells us that the godhead can be understood. Romans 1:19-20 says, "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

The entire ministry of Jesus Christ was characterized by the use of parables to teach his disciples. This often frustrated them. Matthew 13:10-11 tells us that Jesus was asked of His disciples, "Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

On the surface, this might not seem fair. However, whether or not the hearer understands it depends on the condition of the heart. Jesus went on to explain in Matthew 13:13-15: "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

 

[the-nameless-one]

The Choice Is Yours
It is important to realize that there is one sin that is probably deadlier than any other. It is the sin of unbelief.

When truth comes to us – especially if it goes against our grain or against our traditions – there is a tendency turn away and say, "I don’t believe that." Yet, our unwillingness to believe it does not make it untrue.

Some of us may think that either you believe something or you don’t. Much like a chemical reaction, it either happens or it doesn’t. However, belief is a conscious and deliberate choice of will.

When we encounter truth, we may think that by embracing it, it might upset our church membership, our families, our friends, etc. Our minds tell us that this issue will turn our lives upside down! This may very well be true. When Jesus Christ comes into people’s lives, He always turns them upside down, and makes things uncomfortable. In Jesus’ day, it would have caused a person to be thrown out of the synagogue. Because of this, Jesus encountered many people with their spiritual eyes closed, refusing to see the truth.

This is a deliberate choice of free will. This process casts a person into the role of an unbeliever. Revelation 21:9 states,

But the...unbelieving...shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:

For a deeper study of the Godhead, I highly encourage you to read the next section below – Understanding the Godhead: From Eternity to Eternity.

 

[the-nameless-one]

Why the Mystery?
The Godhead was, in fact, enshrouded in mystery for the deepest of reasons. Matthew 7:7-8 gives us the answer:

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

God is looking for those who will seek Him. Hebrews 11:6 says, "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Let’s look at I Timothy 3:16 again. This time, notice: we are first told that godliness is a mystery. However, the rest of the scripture defines the mystery for us! It’s not a mystery for those who seek!

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh , justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

He was manifest in the flesh. This is the reason why He was called Emanuel, which means, "God with us." Matthew 1:23 says, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us"

Jesus Christ was God...and He was God with us.

 

[the-nameless-one]

How Many Gods? One.

Unless we get this one question right, nothing else will matter. In a time of interfaithism in which people are being taught that all religions worship the same god, but each worship him by a different name, this becomes the central question. How many Gods are there? Fortunately, the Bible tells us. Deuteronomy 6:4 says,

 

[the-nameless-one]

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.
Before we just say this glibly, let us look at some of the teachings of the Bible concerning how many Gods there actually are. Deuteronomy 6:4, of course, is the cornerstone of all truth, but let’s go beyond it to see if the rest of the scriptures bear it out.

None Else Beside Him

Deuteronomy 4:35 says it this way: "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him."

No God With Him
Deuteronomy 32:39 tells us that there is no God with Him: "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me : I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

No God Before Him or After Him
Furthermore, Isaiah 43:10 tells us: "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

This is very simple. There is one God, there was none before Him, there will not be another God created after Him, there is no God beside Him, and there is none with Him.

None Like Him
As we have already seen, there is no God with Him, there were none before Him, and there will never be any after Him. Also, there is not even any God like Him, as we read in II Samuel 7:22: "Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee ,either is there any God beside thee , according to all that we have heard with our ears."

The Only Wise God
Jude 1:25 says: "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

If there are other gods, they don’t possess these qualities. As we just read, He is "the only wise God". There is only one God who possesses wisdom, glory, majesty, dominion, and power.

Even Devils Know There Is Only One God

Here now is one of the very interesting scriptures – James 2:19. It says: "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe , and tremble."

Satan, who found his realm in heaven, knows that there is one and only one God. Additionally, I Corinthians 8:4 says: "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

From these Scriptures, and many, many others like them, we can reach a conclusion of truth. There is one and only one God.

 

[the-nameless-one]

Is Jesus God?

The next question is: if there is one and only one God, does the Bible teach that Jesus is God? The great messianic prophecy found in Isaiah 9:6 tells us: "For unto us a child is born , unto us a son is given : and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God ,The everlasting Father , The Prince of Peace."

This is an interesting scripture because it says that this Messiah will be both Son and Father. He will be the Son who is born, but yet He will also be the everlasting Father!

Matthew 1:23 teaches us that Jesus is God with us: "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

Revelation 1:8 the Lord God Almighty speaks: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending ,saith the Lord , which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty"

In verses 10 and 11 the Lord continues: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:"

The same voice is speaking to John in both verses. We know this because He said in verse 8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending," and He again repeats in verse 11, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last."

Verses 12 and 13 continue: "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle."

And verses 17 and 18: "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last :I am he that liveth ,and was dead ; and, behold, I am alive for evermore , Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

Now we know for sure who is talking here when He says, "I am he that liveth, and was dead." It is Jesus. The One who said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the ending, the Almighty," is the same One who said, "I am he that liveth, and was dead and, behold, I am alive for evermore."

This is Jesus Christ staking claim not only to being God but the Almighty God!

 

[the-nameless-one]

God Is the Only Savior
Isaiah 43:11 tells us that the Lord Jehovah is the only Savior: "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour"

God Is Jesus
In Acts 9, we witness the conversion of Saul (later named Paul) through the revelation of Jesus Christ. The man named Saul of Tarsus, then a persecutor of the church, was on his way to persecute Christians at Damascus. He had papers that had been granted to him to fulfill this commission. However, God had a different plan for this man’s life. Acts 9:4-5 tells us that as Saul was traveling along, "...he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

Saul knew this was God speaking to him, although, up to this point, he did not think that he was persecuting followers of God since he did not believe that Jesus was God. However, it was Jesus who asked Saul, "why are you persecuting me ?" Saul must have realized that he didn’t know who God was. From that day forward, Saul, now Paul, preached that Jesus was God. He received the amazing revelation that should be apparent to us all.

I’ll Believe It When I See It
In another story, Jesus had appeared to the ten disciples. Thomas was absent. When Thomas returned, the disciples told him they had seen Jesus. He replied in John 20:25, "...Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

Several days later, Jesus appeared to them again. This time Thomas was present. In John 20:27-28 Jesus said to Thomas, "...Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God"

In that moment, Thomas realized that not only had Jesus risen from the dead, but that Jesus had been listening to his denials. Thomas realized that this is an ever-present God who knows my thoughts while they are yet afar off. He is Jesus. And He is God.

Jesus Is the One God
What can we conclude from these scriptures? There is only one God, and Jesus is that one God.

The Holy Ghost Is God
Have we answered all of our questions about the Godhead? No. Let’s take a look at the Holy Ghost, since the Holy Ghost is part of the Godhead. The Bible teaches us that the Holy Ghost is God. Let’s look at Luke 1:35:

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary, and caused her to conceive. The holy thing which was born of her was called the Son of God. We can therefore see the Bible teaches us that the Holy Ghost is God.

 

[the-nameless-one]

The Holy Ghost Is the Father
Our lesson may seem to be confusing if you don’t fully understand the one-God concept. Who was the Father of Jesus? The most common answer would be "God the Father." However, we have just learned that the Holy Ghost was the father of Jesus. Here is Matthew 1:18:

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

"God the Father" Is Not the Father?
Here is where some people become confused due to the concept of the Trinity. If you have a Father, a Son and a Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is the father of Jesus, this makes for a strange situation. The Father is not the father! But that is only confusing to people who have been taught to believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate beings.

However, if it is your belief that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one and the same, then we can use these titles interchangeably without doing violence to the Bible. If they are not one and the same, it would seem as though the wrong one fathered Jesus Christ.

The Holy Ghost Is Jesus
We have just learned that the Holy Ghost is the Father. We learned earlier that according to Isaiah 9:6, the Father and the Son are the same: "For unto us a child is born , unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father , The Prince of Peace."

It should therefore not come as a surprise to find that the Bible teaches that Jesus is not only the Father, but He is also the Holy Ghost. Here is John 14:16-17: "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter , that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him ; for he dwelleth with you , and shall be in you."

The world doesn’t see Him, the world doesn’t know Him. Jesus continues in verse 17: "...but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

The disciples were given the revelation when Jesus said, "but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." In other words, Jesus was with them physically, but He had to go away so that they could know Him more intimately than they did up to that time. He had to go away so He could dwell within them!

Verse 18 continues: "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

Jesus is saying that He is the Comforter, or the Holy Ghost.

 

[the-nameless-one]

Understanding the Godhead is to Understand Baptism
We know from the Scriptures we have read that: Jesus is the Father, Jesus is the Son, and Jesus is the Holy Ghost.

This explains why, on the day of His ascension into heaven, Jesus straightly commanded His disciples to go teach all nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost . (Matthew 28:19) Yet, seven days later, on the day of Pentecost, Peter stood before the crowd and commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ . From that point on, every single baptism throughout the history of the New Testament church was done in the name of Jesus .

Why Baptize in Jesus’ Name?
By then the disciples understood that Jesus was the Father, Jesus was the Son, and Jesus was the Holy Ghost! When He told them to baptize in the name of the Father, He meant for them to use the name of Jesus; when He told them to baptize in the name of the Son, He meant for them to use the name of Jesus; and when He told them to baptize in the name of the Holy Ghost, He meant for them to use the name of Jesus.

The reason is found in Colossians 2:9 which says, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

Some of us may say, "How can this be?" The answer is really quite simple. I am a father, I am a son and I am a husband, but I am not three persons. Jesus Christ is Father, Son and Holy Ghost, but He is not three people. Recall Jesus’ words to Philip in John 14:9: "...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father..."

Summary
It has been said that God is a mystery. Paul writes this in I Timothy 3:16 when he says, "Great is the mystery of godliness." Paul goes on in this the same verse to define the mystery for us! He tells us that the mystery of godliness is that "God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

So, what does "mystery" mean? We discover through scripture that it does not mean something that cannot be understood. It can be revealed to someone who is sincerely searching for the truth. In fact, when a person says that God is a mystery, he has not looked deeply enough.



Scriptures prove out very clearly that:
There is one God
There is no god beside Him
There is no god with Him
There was no god before Him
There will be no god after Him
There is none like Him
The devils even know there is one God
Jesus is God
Jesus is the Father
Jesus is the Son
Jesus is the Holy Ghost
The Holy Ghost is God
The Holy Ghost is Jesus


The disciples understood that Jesus was the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. When Jesus, therefore, gave them instructions to "teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost," they properly understood that Jesus was referring to Himself. This is why seven days later, on the day of Pentecost, Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ . From that point on, all baptisms throughout the history of the New Testament church were done in the name of Jesus . Proper understanding of the Godhead is reflected in baptism.

 

[Scott C.]

I don't understand why the Latter-day Saint concept of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost strikes some as so odd and at odds with the Bible. I find it logical and consistent with the Bible. It seems that most Christians start with one Being (God) and then explain in what way He can be thought of or manifested as three (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). I, on the other hand, start with three Beings (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) and then explain in what way they may be thought of as only One.

Scotty

 

[*Paul*]

Jesus is not the Father, the Father is the Father, Jesus is the Son, Jesus is not the Spirit, The Spirit is the Spirit - God the Holy Spirit, Jesus is Jesus - God the Son, The Father is the Father - God the Father. These three Persons are one God. The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son, all the Fulness of the Godhead is in Jesus Christ, the Spirit is sent forth from them and proceeds from them and is in all who have believed unto salvation.

 

[Popeyesays]

How Many Gods? One.

Unless we get this one question right, nothing else will matter. In a time of interfaithism in which people are being taught that all religions worship the same god, but each worship him by a different name, this becomes the central question. How many Gods are there? Fortunately, the Bible tells us. Deuteronomy 6:4 says,

True. One God illuminates the Messengers. Each Messenger bears a true Revelation from God. Same God, Same Voice----the Messengers speak with that Samve Voice from the same Source.

God is NOT a "name. God IS, then, now, later.

Regards,
Scott

 

[the-nameless-one]

God is NOT a "name. God IS, then, now, later.

Jhn 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And that eternal spirit of then, now, and later has the name of Jesus. Jhn 8:24 Jesus speaking: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[Popeyesays]

Jhn 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And that eternal spirit of then, now, and later has the name of Jesus. Jhn 8:24 Jesus speaking: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Let's put the eighth chapter in context:

"16And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

17It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. "

Even here he draws a line between Himself and God.

Regards,
Scott