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Did Jesus say he was God???

doppelganger

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
lunamoth said:
I was vaguely remembering that even as I was posting...that some claim John to be originally gnostic. But the preamble does not seem gnostic in the sense that I understand it. Gnosticism tended to view the flesh as the source of evil. Why would they write that the word became flesh?
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The "flesh as evil" may be a caricature of early Christian mysticism. The "flesh" doesn't necessarily mean "meat."
 
astarath

astarath

Well-Known Member
Popeyesays said:
Yes, you might try actually looking in a dictionary sometime; they're very helpful.

Regards,

Scott
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I find it interesting with so many definitions offered the dictionary doesnt clarify anything for me biblically but more often than not confuses and blurs the point being made!
 
lunamoth

lunamoth

Will to love
Popeyesays said:
But surely you can see that "flesh" is just another word for "substance" in the cosmic sense. Creation gave the impulse to create "meat" and everything else.

I can give an idea flesh. Flesh: definition "18.to give dimension, substance, or reality to (often fol. by out): The playwright fleshed out the characters.

Regards,
Scott
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The Word became flesh and came to dwell among us. And yada yada John the Baptist testifies about him (Jesus). The passage is specifically about Jesus. :shrug:



1In the beginning was the Creative Impulse, and the Creative Impulse was with God, and the Creative Impulse was God. 2 He (the Creative Impulse) was with God in the beginning.
3Through the Creative Impulse all things were made; without Creative Impulse nothing was made that has been made. 4In The Creative Impulse was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.[b] 10He (who is John talking about here?) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. 14The Creative Impulse became substance and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testifies concerning The Creative Impulse. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
lunamoth said:
The Word became flesh and came to dwell among us. And yada yada John the Baptist testifies about him (Jesus). The passage is specifically about Jesus. :shrug:



1In the beginning was the Creative Impulse, and the Creative Impulse was with God, and the Creative Impulse was God. 2 He (the Creative Impulse) was with God in the beginning.
3Through the Creative Impulse all things were made; without Creative Impulse nothing was made that has been made. 4In The Creative Impulse was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.[b] 10He (who is John talking about here?) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. 14The Creative Impulse became substance and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testifies concerning The Creative Impulse. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
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Reads fine to me.

Regards,
Scott
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
astarath said:
I find it interesting with so many definitions offered the dictionary doesnt clarify anything for me biblically but more often than not confuses and blurs the point being made!
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Sounds like a theological Luddite attitude.

Regards,

Scott
 
astarath

astarath

Well-Known Member
Not at all, more like see all the facts with eyes wide open. When one person offers his perfect definition to prove a point when there are 17 equally viable options this gives little value to the point!
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
astarath said:
Sorry popeye you do not believe that Christ and God are cut from the same cloth?
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Sorry, God in His Essence has been cut from nothing. He was, is and will be, eternal--not immortal.

Jesus was cut from "cloth" in a sense, as He was a man.

Regards,
Scott
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
lunamoth said:
Reads fine to me too, but John is still saying that Jesus is God, no matter what symbols you use to equate in between.
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That's where we disagree. Because I do not think the argument presented for that conclusion is reasonable.

We've disagreed before, and probably will again--but I love you anyway, and I never have a fear for the state of your soul. I find it blindingly radiant.

Regards,
Scott
 
lunamoth

lunamoth

Will to love
Popeyesays said:
That's where we disagree. Because I do not think the argument presented for that conclusion is reasonable.

We've disagreed before, and probably will again--but I love you anyway, and I never have a fear for the state of your soul. I find it blindingly radiant.

Regards,
Scott
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Blessings Scott, the feeling is mutual.
 
astarath

astarath

Well-Known Member
That is just it rationally Christ and God are of the same spirit in my mind and as such if God existed spiritually as he always has than Christ has always existed with him until the time of his physical incarnation. rationally
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
astarath said:
That is just it rationally Christ and God are of the same spirit in my mind and as such if God existed spiritually as he always has than Christ has always existed with him until the time of his physical incarnation. rationally
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It maybe so in your mind. It is not apparent to my mind, and insisting that your way is correct because you say it is, is just begging the question.

Regards,
Scott
 
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