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Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
- Start date
arimoff
Active Member
exactly, but why then even show you can walk on water? walking on water is not something we see every day, by doing so he was trying to prove him self, that he is what he claimed to be, but honestly there is no spiritual meaning to walking on water. Simple black magic or illusion to people who's believes are in One all mighty all powerful all capable G-D. Poor effort on his part.
Matthew 14:32; Mark 6:51 mentions the wind (storm) ceasing with Jesus presence. Mark 4:37-39 Jesus says 'hush' to the sea to be quite and still and the sea obeys his voice.
Jesus sees his disciples struggling hard to make headway against the waves rowing with all their might. It is at that point Jesus walks toward them on the water.
Jesus had already showed the crowd that he could feed the hungry, and now Jesus is demonstrating the power he has over the natural elements. Jesus can regulate the weather. Jesus was demonstrating on a small scale what he will do on a LARGE or GRAND scale during his coming 1000-year rule over earth.
arimoff
Active Member
But why? Showing such miracles, (if they can be called so) is not the way to show you are G-D, it is actually the opposite, a person can or will use such actions to prove that he is G-D when he is actually not. G-D in the Torah does not show such miracles, He even prohibits using magic and everything similar. G-D all mighty is on a higher level to prove Him self like that. This is the reason Jewish people never accepted him. their education about what ONE G-D is were on a higher level.
Even the 10 plagues on Egypt can be explained naturally. Everything G-D did in the Torah has a possibility to be explained naturally to keep up with free will of the human being.
Jesus, nor his friends nor his enemies, ever stated he was God.
That was not taught in first-century Christianity.
John did not write Jesus was God but created by God at Rev 3:14 B.
Paul did not write Jesus was God but firstborn in the heavens at Col 1:15,16.
Jesus did not perform miracles to prove he was God.
At Mark (12:29,30) Jesus referred to Deuteronomy (6:4) stating (as close as I can get ) Yehwah Elohehnu Yehwah e chadh. No where did Jesus teach or claim to be God.
Jesus powerful works were not meant to be magic or spiritism- Deut 18:9-13.
If everything could be explained away naturally, then sometimes isn't it the timing of events that make the odds overwhelming? 1 Sam 14:15,16.; 1st Kings 17:1-7; 18:41-45; 2nd Kings 5:1-14.
Wouldn't that also be true about the timing of the Manna? Exodus 16:4,5, 25-27
It didn't appear on the 7th day, was found on the ground and melted in hot sun -Exodus 16:19-23; Numbers 11:8.
Characteristics of miracles are noteworthy in they are done in the open and public, simplistic in purpose and motive, not to make wealth or make prominent, but primarily to glorify God as Jesus also did.
Muffled
Jesus in me
The obvious reasopn is that no-one would think of a man as being God unless He could display the power of God. Jesus one-ups the prophets: Elijah got it to rain but he had to keep checking to see if God ansered his prayers. Jesus just speaks and the wind and waves obey Him. Other prophets may have opened the eyes of blind men but Jesus opened the eyes of men blind from birth. Other prophets raised the dead but Jesus Himself was raised from the dead. It certainly was in God's interest to instill faith in the Apostles and to prepare them to receive the Paraclete so that all His efforts wouldn't be in vain.
Jer 2:30 In vain have I smitten your children; they received no correction: your own sword hath devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion.
This is true and the anti-christ will deceive many when he causes fire to come down from the sky. However God is allowing this deception as vengence on those who refused to accept Jesus as Messiah.
The anti-christ even acts like a peace loving shepherd at first until he gains control. Eventually his true nature shows through and by his fruits you will know how wicked he is.
There was a prophet who filled several containers with oil for a widow to sell. Elijah turned a poisonous stew into an edible one. An axe was levitated from the depths of the water. And where is your rational explanation for Shadrach, Meshach & Abednego who returned from the fiery furnace alive?
Ba'al
Active Member
Most of the new testament was originally written in ancient Greek which has no capitalization for proper nouns, in fact it's all capital letters. They later became translated into modern Greek and English. There, Christians took it upon themselves to add capitalized nouns where they felt appropriate. For example, God is metioned in many places including at least once where Satan is called god, but only in places where they think it's the god they worship did they make it capitalized.
arimoff
Active Member
Jesus had faith (not credulity) but faith based on reasoning on Scripture. Jesus replies showed Jesus had a well-rounded Biblical education in Scripture.
God was in his heart and mind. Jesus believed Scripture was religious truth (John 17:17)
His accurate knowledge of Scripture (Psalm 119:105) showed that he could use Scripture as a reliable guide in which to base his beliefs.
God was in his heart and mind. Jesus believed Scripture was religious truth (John 17:17)
His accurate knowledge of Scripture (Psalm 119:105) showed that he could use Scripture as a reliable guide in which to base his beliefs.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Read it and weep: The passage says nothing about a God over Him:
Rev 3:12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
It depends on (your) understanding of what ("Over Him") means to you. The main interpretation is that "God" is a universal creator with ultimate knowledge and control over all that it created. Yeshua of the scriptures does not fit this description either before being sent to earth, while on earth or after the ascension. The biblical Yeshua maintained that his god was in control. This control, from the beginning, was in the form of "God" teaching Yeshua while in heaven, sending Yeshua to earth (which was not by the separate will of Yeshua). This was the understanding of all that followed him. All that followed him understood he was sent from "God" but was not "God" and "God" used Yeshua as he had with all the prophets before him. But yes, the biblical Yeshua did inform his followers his god was above (higher, greater, more than) he was.
John 14:28 My Father is greater than I.
John 10:29 My father is greater than all.
You believe that because one scripture doesn't say God is over Christ, that your point is proved?
It does say that Jesus has a God, that this God has a name, and that God's name is not the same as Jesus name. This scripture, as do many others, proves that Jesus is NOT God, but God's obedient son. As to God being over Jesus, 1 Corinthians 11:3 says "The head of the Christ is God".
arimoff
Active Member
Jesus never claimed to be G-D, He only called him self Moshiach. No Jewish person in those days could have even given such thought, to call him self G-D. He became G-D when Christianity started being adapted by Romans and pagans.
I have a little thought I want to share with you all.
Jesus had parents Joseph and Miriam witch is absolutely fine until we insert the holy spirit. Joseph and Miriam are legally married so they for sure had intercourse she couldn't be a virgin, and any other adult action on her part from anybody else but Joseph is Illegal. So Jesus being born from holy spirit and not Joseph makes him what the Torah calls mamzer.
Deuteronomy 23:3
A ******* (מַמְזֵר-Mamzer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) shall not enter the assembly of the Lord; even the tenth generation shall not enter the assembly of the Lord.
Even if he would be born from the holy spirit, there is no way G-D would choose a married woman, it would go against His own laws, a would be bad example on his part. So no way the holly spirit and Miriam actions ever happened.
I have a little thought I want to share with you all.
Jesus had parents Joseph and Miriam witch is absolutely fine until we insert the holy spirit. Joseph and Miriam are legally married so they for sure had intercourse she couldn't be a virgin, and any other adult action on her part from anybody else but Joseph is Illegal. So Jesus being born from holy spirit and not Joseph makes him what the Torah calls mamzer.
Deuteronomy 23:3
A ******* (מַמְזֵר-Mamzer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) shall not enter the assembly of the Lord; even the tenth generation shall not enter the assembly of the Lord.
Even if he would be born from the holy spirit, there is no way G-D would choose a married woman, it would go against His own laws, a would be bad example on his part. So no way the holly spirit and Miriam actions ever happened.