Did Jesus say he was God???

[Popeyesays]

GOD testifieth that there ...



GOD testifieth that there is none other God but Him. His are the kingdoms in the heavens and on the earth and all that is between them. He is exalted above the comprehension of all things, and is inscrutable to the mind of every created being; none shall be able to fathom the oneness of His Being or to unravel the nature of His Existence. No peer or likeness, no similitude or equal can ever be joined with Him. Yield ye praise then unto Him and glorify Him and bear ye witness to the sanctity and oneness of His Being and magnify His might and majesty with wondrous glorification. This will enable you to gain admittance into the all-highest Paradise. Would that ye had firm faith in the revelation of the signs of God. . . . .
Selections from the Writings of the Báb
6 EXCERPTS FROM VARIOUS WRITINGS
page 154

 

[Muffled]

No, you are still wrong. I can only surmise that your voice is on the phone. It could be an AI using your voice, or an imposter. The telephone you are speaking on nev er contains YOU.

Jesus is a Manifestation of God and on a plane of existence that I cannot understand, but even then Jesus is NOT God. Jesus had the capacity to say "Screw you!" and walk away at any point. Every act of obedience was an act of Jesus submitting to the will of God voluntarily--or it has no meaning to anyone.

Regards,
Scott

I will grant that you may encounter imposters but if you know me well you should be able to figure that out. A hundred years from now my body may be dead but the words I spoke identify me forever. It is the same way with Jesus. The body matteers little the identity of God is in His words.

Jesus does not have a separate will from God but He does have to contend with the will of the flesh. In that sense there is a need for obedience but it could never be otherwise that God could be subservient to the flesh.

 

[Muffled]

Then there is no point to Christ ever having come. If He had no will of His Own, then He was not a man. Man has WILL, it is part of his nature. Jesus spent forty days in the desert decigint to do God's will rather than His own. When Jesus prayed in the garden, He begged God to change His will for Jesus, Jesus CHOSE to follow God's will not His own. That's no sacrifice otherwise.

Jesus prayed and taught us to pray "Thy will be done." what's the point if He had no will of His own?

Your statement is very poorly thought out.

Regards,

Scott

Isn't this the Aryan heresy? Jesus had the body of a man. That means that people would have perceived Him as a man. The fact that He doesn't have a human spirit with a separate will should not alter His humanity. Jesus will speak with the voice of a man but the words will be God's words. Jesus will heal the sick the way a man would but with the will of God. Jesus will dine with sinners although the religious would not because it is God's will to seek out such for salvation.

 

[Popeyesays]

"The fact that He doesn't have a human spirit with a separate will should not alter His humanity. "

If He does not have a human spirit, then He is, obviously, not human. Therefore whatever His experiences might be those experiences are no more relevant to humanity than if He were a star far beyond any of our perceptions--and those experiences are therefore irrelevant to us.

That makes Jesus irrelevant right?

The Aryan Heresy was created not by proof of scripture buy by political purpose.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Dirty Penguin]

"The fact that He doesn't have a human spirit with a separate will should not alter His humanity. "

If He does not have a human spirit, then He is, obviously, not human. Therefore whatever His experiences might be those experiences are no more relevant to humanity than if He were a star far beyond any of our perceptions--and those experiences are therefore irrelevant to us.

That makes Jesus irrelevant right?

The Aryan Heresy was created not by proof of scripture buy by political purpose.

Regards,
Scott

Kudos Scott......
:sw: If we are to believe Yeshua is God and has been God all along then Why does Yeshua inform us that while in heaven he had his own will? Why in the the book of Revelation he tells us he has a God?:sarcastic

 

[namguy]

Most Christians believe that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. Oh, and Kadzbiz, this is not a court.

I agree 100%, no 'if's or but's' about it.....

 

[Somkid]

Starting with the supposition that one does believe bible to accurate and seeing how God reacted to most situations in the old testament that peeved him, thunder bolts and lightning the destruction of this city and that town etc, etc, etc... would it not be logical for Jesus to lay waste to Roam for trying to crucify him if he was god?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Starting with the supposition that one does believe bible to accurate and seeing how God reacted to most situations in the old testament that peeved him, thunder bolts and lightning the destruction of this city and that town etc, etc, etc... would it not be logical for Jesus to lay waste to Roam for trying to crucify him if he was god?

You are correct. If you get a moment take a look at John chapter 17 and you will quickly see that Yeshua is not God...That whole chapter is a prayer to God from Yeshua...

 

[kmkemp]

You are correct. If you get a moment take a look at John chapter 17 and you will quickly see that Yeshua is not God...That whole chapter is a prayer to God from Yeshua...

Even if you believe that Yeshua is not God, how is what you are saying at all relevant? Do you really just want to start yet another debate about it here?? Even if Yeshua was not God, scripture at least shows time and again that he wielded the power of God.

 

[avarose]

Jesus is gods son. they are two different beings. They are not one in the same!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Even if you believe that Yeshua is not God,

Which I don't. This should be self evident from the other thread (Is Trinity In The Bible?).....

how is what you are saying at all relevant?

Once again I must direct you to the question/title of the thread (Is Jesus God in the flesh?). Yeshua while in heaven was not in the flesh (John 6:38) and so before coming here, "if" he is in spirit he reveals to us that his will is seperate from God. And if God is spirit (from what Yeshua said) and Yeshua was not in human form before coming here then they are not the same.

Do you really just want to start yet another debate about it here??

Actually if you care to dip back you will see that I have cited John 6:38 before. So I fail to understand what you mean by "start another debate"....

Even if Yeshua was not God,

Which he wasn't....

scripture at least shows time and again that he wielded the power of God.

So by this logic we are to assume that because he performed miracles this makes him God???? The problem with your statement is that it is Yeshua who says that what he did was a result of the power that God granted him. For some one to be granted something some one has to be the grantor.


Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.


Luke 11:20
But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.


John 13:3,4
Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands........

 

[Muffled]

Starting with the supposition that one does believe bible to accurate and seeing how God reacted to most situations in the old testament that peeved him, thunder bolts and lightning the destruction of this city and that town etc, etc, etc... would it not be logical for Jesus to lay waste to Roam for trying to crucify him if he was god?

The Roman Empire gets off the hook when Pontius Pilot declares Jesus innocent of the charges. Yes. Jesus could have prevented His crucifixion. However he had stated previously that it was His purpose to be crucified. The "What would God do" question, is only speculation.

 

[Quath]

The Roman Empire gets off the hook when Pontius Pilot declares Jesus innocent of the charges. Yes. Jesus could have prevented His crucifixion. However he had stated previously that it was His purpose to be crucified. The "What would God do" question, is only speculation.

I doubt that Pilate cleared Jesus. I think that was Christians trying to revise their history so it did appear their leader was an insurgent.

 

[namguy]

Most Christians believe that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. Oh, and Kadzbiz, this is not a court.

Indeed so...peroiod:bow:

 

[namguy]

One question. If jesus was God, How can he be the son of God?

The Trinity, God The Father is the Son, The Son is the Father, The Spirit is Christ & God The Father.
"No one goes to The Father except through The Son."

This is reffered too as a 'mystery of faith.' When the Saved go into Heaven, then we'll understand this mystery, not before.

 

[Katzpur]

The Trinity, God The Father is the Son, The Son is the Father, The Spirit is Christ & God The Father.

I'm sorry, but could you quote chapter and verse for me on that one? I must have missed it.

 

[*Paul*]

The Trinity, God The Father is the Son, The Son is the Father, The Spirit is Christ & God The Father.
"No one goes to The Father except through The Son."

This is reffered too as a 'mystery of faith.' When the Saved go into Heaven, then we'll understand this mystery, not before.

Namguy, this is not the generally understood definition of the Trinity, this may help (hopefully):

Trinity /Trin´i·ty/ (?), n. [OE. trinitee, F. trinité, L. trinitas, fr. trini three each. See Trinal.] 1. (Christian Theol.) The union of three persons (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) in one Godhead, so that all the three are one God as to substance, but three persons as to individuality.


This is a good thread, a lot of questions have been asked, when I first became a Christian I believed Jesus' Deity and The Trinity because I was supposed to but when I started to question it I could not get a satisfactory answer, so I prayed and prayed, I searched the scriptures even scrutinized them, I questioned it constantly. That Jesus is God who became a man without ceasing to be God and that God is One God and Three persons was the only conclusion I could come to without making the scriptures heavily contradictory.
I'm just glad I got my answers in this manner instead of blindly following a church.

 

[DallasApple]

Jeusus was human perfection..Unlike the rest of us..

A relational vessel for the weak of faith and the srtong.

We can see ourselves in Him becuase he bleeds..He hungers and He thirst. and He weeps...But yet He was perfect..

God "humanized"...

I grapple with this question..IS JESUS God...

I think so...as we are created in Gods image..

Jesus was as well...But He was perfect..Unlike the rest of us..

Sometimes I get mad at God for not "protecting" Jesus...

Maybe just maybe...Its because God and Jesus are the same..and God sacrificed Himself..Called Himself the son so we might undertand..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Katzpur]

Maybe just maybe...Its because God and Jesus are the same..and God sacrificed Himself..Called Himself the son so we might undertand.

If God just called Himself the Son so that we might understand, I think it backfired. Because if the Father = the Son = the Holy Ghost = the Father, I'm more confused than ever. When Jesus asked that the bitter cup be removed, who was He praying to? Himself? Why didn't He just make the decision to remove it Himself if He was the Father going by a different name? When He hung dying on the cross, why did He ask His Father to forgive His murderers? Was it really the Father speaking, pretending to be Jesus? Why did He ask His Father why He'd forsaken Him? It would have been impossible for the Father to have forsaken Himself.

 

[DallasApple]

If God just called Himself the Son so that we might understand, I think it backfired. Because if the Father = the Son = the Holy Ghost = the Father, I'm more confused than ever. When Jesus asked that the bitter cup be removed, who was He praying to? Himself? Why didn't He just make the decision to remove it Himself if He was the Father going by a different name? When He hung dying on the cross, why did He ask His Father to forgive His murderers? Was it really the Father speaking, pretending to be Jesus? Why did He ask His Father why He'd forsaken Him? It would have been impossible for the Father to have forsaken Himself.

I agree...

Its very curious...

Twirly mind kind of...

Blessings

Dallas